Siphoning water

[Modelworks]

I have two aquariums that are on stands about the same height off the floor. Tank 2 is about 1ft shorter in height than tank 1 so I can use a siphon to move water from tank 1 to tank 2. I use a pipe that is about level with the bottom of both tanks. The flow rate though is really low. What I want to know is if I were to get a longer pipe and run the pipe from tank 1 to the floor then back up to tank 2 would it have any effect on the flow rate ? Would the water being pulled down by gravity speed it up or is that not much of an effect when using something like a siphon to move water ?

I'm trying to find a solution that does not involve using a pump. Sometimes the water contains baby fish that are very tiny and any pump in the path would kill them .

 

[theflyingpig]

What I want to know is if I were to get a longer pipe and run the pipe from tank 1 to the floor then back up to tank 2 would it have any effect on the flow rate ?

No.

Would the water being pulled down by gravity speed it up

No.

is that not much of an effect when using something like a siphon to move water ?

Yes.

I'm trying to find a solution that does not involve using a pump.

Move tank 2 lower.

Sometimes the water contains baby fish that are very tiny and any pump in the path would kill them .

Oh.

 

[Sea Moose]

you could syphon water into a bucket then pour water into the other tank

 

[Rubycon]

Water seeks to its own level.

The only way to augment flow is to add kinetic energy.

 

[IronWing]

You could crank up the heat in tank one to create a thermal gradient and drive the water into tank two.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

The flow rate though is really low. What I want to know is if I were to get a longer pipe and run the pipe from tank 1 to the floor then back up to tank 2 would it have any effect on the flow rate ? Would the water being pulled down by gravity speed it up or is that not much of an effect when using something like a siphon to move water ?

Any gain you get from section of pipe that falls below the tanks would be countered by the water having to travel back up to the level of the second tank. That's just basic physics. Gravity is going to be 9.8 m/s² all along the pipe.

 

[Modelworks]

Water seeks to its own level.

The only way to augment flow is to add kinetic energy.

hrm I was thinking about a ram pump type setup, but it seems way too complex.

 

[IronWing]

Get a battery.

 

[Modelworks]

Get a battery.

Would kill the fish

The problem is I need to move about 150 gallons of water without killing its contents. There is a pump made for this but it cost over $500

 

[IronWing]

Would kill the fish

The problem is I need to move about 150 gallons of water without killing its contents.

So...using a bag a water softener salt to create a diffusion gradient between the tanks is out, right?

 

[Modelworks]

So...using a bag a water softener salt to create a diffusion gradient between the tanks is out, right?

yep, it would change the PH of the water.

 

[Sea Moose]

pics of tanks or shens (also wife)

 

[DrPizza]

Increasing the length of the hose would decrease the flow, albeit probably only slightly. Once the water level of both tanks is the same height above the floor, water will stop flowing. Thus your method is doomed to not be capable of moving all the water/fish.

Here's an idea: Get a gallon milk jug, cut most of the top off, leaving the handle. Scoop water from one and pour it into the other.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I don't see how this is working at all if the bottoms of both tanks are at the same level. The difference in the heights doesn't matter unless you're only pulling water from the section of the taller tank that is above the level of the other tank. The only way to increase the flow with gravity alone is to move one of the tanks to a lower level than the other. Siphoning works by allowing gravity to pull water from a high place to a low place, creating a suction at the end of the tube which draws more water into the tube which gravity then continues to pull down into the lower level. Decreasing the height of tank two increases the distance that gravity has to accelerate the water down the tube, which increases the flow.

 

[darkxshade]

just use a 1 gallon milk jug with the top lopped off 150 times

 

[JoeKing]

no way to jack up the height of the original tank about a foot?

 

[Rubycon]

Breeders use spillway systems all the time where water needs to be moved. They are very safe for the fry.

The water can be collected in a sump below and returned via a conventional circulating pump. A catch area in the sump to retain fry that get picked up via the overflow chamber prevents them from getting into the pump area. The suction line can also (and should!) have a clear bowl inline strainer just in case. If you see fry in here just close off isolation valves and remove the bowl and dump the fry back where they belong, etc.

Easy as cake because cake is better than pie.

 

[her209]

Like this?

 

[Rubycon]

Yes that's one way. Predrilled tanks are great for that otherwise one needs to fit overflow boxes.

Like this?

 

[aigomorla]

I have two aquariums that are on stands about the same height off the floor. Tank 2 is about 1ft shorter in height than tank 1 so I can use a siphon to move water from tank 1 to tank 2. I use a pipe that is about level with the bottom of both tanks. The flow rate though is really low. What I want to know is if I were to get a longer pipe and run the pipe from tank 1 to the floor then back up to tank 2 would it have any effect on the flow rate ? Would the water being pulled down by gravity speed it up or is that not much of an effect when using something like a siphon to move water ?

I'm trying to find a solution that does not involve using a pump. Sometimes the water contains baby fish that are very tiny and any pump in the path would kill them .

u might run into problems with the bottom tank overflowing if the bottom pump wasnt pushing enough water up.

OR, if your bottom pump was too strong, you will overflow the top one.




You need one of these on both tanks, so they stop siphoning when your tanks reach a certain level:
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+18358&pcatid=18358

Then you get a pump to just push water up.
As ruby says, the top siphon will draw water below, as it draws too much water and gets low, the siphon will stop.
This will prevent the bottom tank from overflowing.

Then the bottom tank can push the water back up with a pump as long as that pump isnt pushing more water then your siphon can bring down.

Remember you dont need to be = this time, just make sure your siphon is > then pump.

Yes that's one way. Predrilled tanks are great for that otherwise one needs to fit overflow boxes.

Ruby that picture has a high placed intake like the unit i showed above.
That PCV which sticks up only collects water up to a certain level, and once the water line goes below that, it wont draw in any more water.

Also using that kind of design is VERY NOISY.
Ive had it... its horribly noisy.


Model im assuming you want a refrigium addition to your tank or a wet dry filter system?

 

[Rubycon]

You can reduce sucking noises by bringing the standpipe above the water via a female adapter and using a male strainer. This mainly applies to smaller pipes. Larger pipes of 4" and up can be capped with a series of 10mm holes drilled approx 10mm apart. No slurping noises. Remember at higher flows with smaller pipes the water level will be considerably above that of a cut off stand pipe and whirlpools will develop causing slurping/sucking noises not much different than a rude child who sucks a softdrink filled glass with ice cubes dry and sucks harder making it louder!

Some also will "box in" the standpipe leaving it cut off far below the water line and this sectioned off area is filled by water spilling over a spillway area. The tank water level can be controlled with an adjustable spillway "gate" or lever. Water level in the sectioned area is controlled by the height of the stand pipe. Water in this area can be used for monitoring via a probe holder (ORP/pH/DO/Temp/etc.)

Ruby that picture has a high placed intake like the unit i showed above.
That PCV which sticks up only collects water up to a certain level, and once the water line goes below that, it wont draw in any more water.

Also using that kind of design is VERY NOISY.
Ive had it... its horribly noisy.


Model im assuming you want a refrigium addition to your tank or a wet dry filter system?

 

[Modelworks]

Model im assuming you want a refrigium addition to your tank or a wet dry filter system?

No. What I have is two tanks about 4 feet apart. The first one measures 48" x 18" x 21" and the second one is 36" x 18" x 24" . So there is a difference of 3 inches height in the top of the water. I need to move water from the taller tank to the shorter tank .

 

[Mike Gayner]

OP demonstrates some pretty epic physics fail....

 

[Modelworks]

Breeders use spillway systems all the time where water needs to be moved. They are very safe for the fry.

The water can be collected in a sump below and returned via a conventional circulating pump. A catch area in the sump to retain fry that get picked up via the overflow chamber prevents them from getting into the pump area. The suction line can also (and should!) have a clear bowl inline strainer just in case. If you see fry in here just close off isolation valves and remove the bowl and dump the fry back where they belong, etc.

Easy as cake because cake is better than pie.

Thats my issue. The tank was not supposed to contain fry but mother nature went against my wishes I wanted to move them to a new tank of their own where they can grow in peace because my other fish would love to snack on them . The tanks are drilled and right now the outlet going to the sump is protected by cheese cloth.

I was hoping to find a solution that would not involve re-plumbing the sump because it took me a long time to really get it right. I made it myself from sheets of plastic and fittings so it holds the skimmer, heater, etc. I guess I could install a filter to catch them in the sump but I will have to keep a close watch to make sure I get them all and move them before they get injured. Their mother is not going to like this, she is extremely protective.

 

[Modelworks]

OP demonstrates some pretty epic physics fail....

Google Ram pump then get back to me.