Sins of a Solar Empire or Galactic Civilizations 2

[CU]

Was looking for something new, and I am trying to decide between Sins of a Solar Empire and Galactic Civilizations 2 + expansions. I like the large tech tree and ability to build custom units in GC. Is Sins tech tree anywhere near as large? How about the maps, which has larger ones? I will only play single player, so which has a better / more human AI? Is the single player story line in GC any good? I know Sins doesn't have one yet, and that is a big draw back for me. Just not sure if I want to keep playing skirmishes against the AI. I don't mind turned based because when I play the AI in RTS games I usually set the game speed to the slowest setting anyway. What is consider a large fleet in both games? Is 20 large for Sins, and 10 large for GC. That was just an example. I have no clue how big the fleets can be in either game. I am leaning toward GC, but I will miss the pretty graphics and RTS aspects. I just think the the ability to build custom ships and largeness of the game sounds very fun. Wish it would switch to RTS during the battles. That would be the best of both worlds. Hint, Hint, Stardock.

And no I can't get both. I barely have time to play any games.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: CU
And no I can't get both. I barely have time to play any games.

From personal experience I can say that GalCiv 2 requires lots of time, but not all at once.
You can play 10 minutes at a time and quit, but you wont want to. You'll wanna play constantly.
But if you have some self control you can cut it out when you need to get some work done.

 

[Hammyton]

Originally posted by: CU
Was looking for something new, and I am trying to decide between Sins of a Solar Empire and Galactic Civilizations 2 + expansions. I like the large tech tree and ability to build custom units in GC. Is Sins tech tree anywhere near as large? How about the maps, which has larger ones? I will only play single player, so which has a better / more human AI? Is the single player story line in GC any good? I know Sins doesn't have one yet, and that is a big draw back for me. Just not sure if I want to keep playing skirmishes against the AI. I don't mind turned based because when I play the AI in RTS games I usually set the game speed to the slowest setting anyway. What is consider a large fleet in both games? Is 20 large for Sins, and 10 large for GC. That was just an example. I have no clue how big the fleets can be in either game. I am leaning toward GC, but I will miss the pretty graphics and RTS aspects. I just think the the ability to build custom ships and largeness of the game sounds very fun. Wish it would switch to RTS during the battles. That would be the best of both worlds. Hint, Hint, Stardock.

And no I can't get both. I barely have time to play any games.

I can't speak for GC as I haven't played it, but I can answer your question about Sins.

The tech trees aren't huge and there are no custom units. The maps however, can get ridiculously big to the point where you can probably play a single game for weeks. I've heard the AI in GC can get ridiculously good but I know the AI in Sins is pretty darn good as it is. There's no story but theres tons of maps and lots of customizability in the different scenarios. A large fleet in Sins is over 1000+ ships and if you don't have a decent computer you wont really have a lot of fun when the game gets good (which imo is when the scale starts becoming massive).

The battles themselves aren't like your normal RTS battles; micro is important sure but its way more important to get the right mix of units and strategy. The graphics are pretty but on big maps you dont spend that much time admiring the graphics since your zoomed out most of the time (think supreme commander). Sins is real-time but essentially turn based since it takes so long to traverse galaxies. You really have to treat traveling as taking turns since it takes so long and positioning is a huge deal when your empire can span a hundred planets.

What I like about Sins is the scale and strategy in the game. The single player is great fun but I'd think the real fun lies in multiplayer (I have yet to try tbh).

 

[CU]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
You can play 10 minutes at a time and quit, but you wont want to. You'll wanna play constantly.

Yeah all games are like that for me it seems like. RPG, just one more LVL. FPS, just to the end of this mission. RTS, just one more tech upgrade. Before I know it the sun is coming up and I am lvl 50 on the last lvl with every tech you can get. :laugh: So, I end up playing for hours one night then not again for a few days or week.

 

[CU]

Originally posted by: Hammyton
The maps however, can get ridiculously big to the point where you can probably play a single game for weeks. A large fleet in Sins is over 1000+ ships and if you don't have a decent computer you wont really have a lot of fun when the game gets good (which imo is when the scale starts becoming massive).

The graphics are pretty but on big maps you dont spend that much time admiring the graphics since your zoomed out most of the time (think supreme commander).

What I like about Sins is the scale and strategy in the game. The single player is great fun but I'd think the real fun lies in multiplayer (I have yet to try tbh).

It sounds like a 4x SupCom in space to me. Which is good because I like SupCom. Thanks for your input.

 

[ZzZGuy]

GC is more like Civilization, Sins is more like Homeworld with bits of GC thrown in.

If you like turn based game and will only be playing single player, go with GC.

Sins can have as may planets and stars as you can add before your mouse brakes, but beyond say 10 stars & 200 planets it becomes almost impossible to win the map as the AI will just keep colonizing behind your fleet unless you take over every planet and put defenses around it which still may not help. Sins tech tree is bigger then it looks, it's just that most techs have 2 or 3 levels and displayed by a single icon. Sins shines with MP, it is very shallow for single player.

-edit- Sins does have epic battles, picture 5 capitals, 40 heavy cruisers, 15 carrires, 15 support cruisers, 60 assault frigates, 40 long range frigates and 100 squads of fighters containing ~4 fighters in each squad (with latest patch). Now picture 3 such allied fleets launching a attack together, or a free for all.

 

[BladeVenom]

If you are only interested in single player, then get Galactic Civilizations 2.

 

[Borealis7]

Imperium Galactica 2!!!!

 

[irishScott]

If you want a huge tech tree go for Space Empires V:
http://www.captainkwok.net/files/TG_TechChart.pdf

However, this game takes forever to play. The AI (with the latest patches, requires manual, albeit painless patching) is excellent, and you can literally customize everything about your universe from the name of your race, to their body type, to the atmosphere of your starting planet, to how socially inclined your citizens are. Every decision can have real-world outcomes.

The battles can include anywhere from 1 to hundreds of ships, all designs custom made part-by-part by you. There's your traditional risk-type "by the numbers" battle, or you can go to a sort of pseudo RTS, where you can command individual ships down to the last detail (which weapons they fire), or more general commands (select ships, attack here). To accommodate the potential scale, you can pause the battle in these cases to observe the situation.

The main problem in this game (for some) is the complexity and sheer scale. It took me months to finish a game once (playing about 30 min - 1 hour per day), although you can set victory parameters to make the game shorter. However, with complexity comes a steep learning curve. The manual and tutorials are informative and will teach you the controls, but not the game. I actually recommend that you don't read the tech tree I linked to. Much more real-world if you have to invest in say, Astrophysics with very little payoff for a long time, but when it does pay off you can do crazy shit like implode stars and create wormholes and such.

However, it has no single player campaign. Just the "conquer the galaxy" theme.

Some screenshots of both the RTS and 4x views:
http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/844
http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/247
http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/162
http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/266
http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/257
http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/250
http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/246
http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/226

 

[bobross419]

@irishscott

I actually saw SE5 last night at Gamestop and was going to post about it today. Sounds like it could be a very fun game. How does it compare to MOO? Is it turn based like MOO? It looked good from what I saw on the box, although the graphics might be a bit dated.

Can anyone else give some info about SE5?

 

[dguy6789]

I'll just keep it short. I have played a handful of Sins multiplayer matches on lan with a friend. The game is definitely like a bigger, in space sup com. Very very fun

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: HammytonWhat I like about Sins is the scale and strategy in the game. The single player is great fun but I'd think the real fun lies in multiplayer (I have yet to try tbh).

The online multiplayer Sins game is much more challenging and is even more strategically demanding than anything the AI can put up against you. It might even be more intense since you always face the very real possibility of having to play against a more experienced and smarter opponent and the possibility of losing. Note that if you're intimidated by the thought of playing against human players (such as members of the scary [DT] Dream Team clan like, ahem, [DT]WHIPperSNAPper) that you can still play humans v. AI games online where you would at least have human teammates and perhaps even receive strategic and tactical pointers from more experienced players. I think there's a demand for humans v. AI games (aka "comp stomps") and it might not be a bad way to ease into Sins online multiplayer.

<----- Unofficial cheerleader for the Sins of a Solar Empire online multiplayer game and Sins custom mapper.

 

[CU]

SE5 sound pretty cool. But it may be a little to complex and buggy from what I have read. Also GC looks better graphically. I know it just graphics, but I like to what I look at to look good.

How big can the fleets be in GC? I have yet to find that out. I am leaning toward GC for the single player AI and campaign. I would be inclined to pick Sin's if I played mult. player, but when our baby wakes up in the middle of the night I don't think people would like me pausing the game for 10+ minutes. If I get GC + expansions it looks like the GOLD version comes with it all. There is also an Endless Universe Edition that seems to be the same as the GOLD, but only for Europe and it is cheaper. You can get it at GoGamer for $27.90 vs $37.90 for the GOLD edition. Is there any difference?

Maybe in a year or so I will get Sins + all of its expansions.

 

[Martimus]

The GC2 tech tree is much larger than the Sins tech tree. I prefer GC2 to Sins, but they are both good games. The AI in GC2 is much better than the AI in sins, and the diplomacy in GC2 is far superior as well.

You question about map size doesn't have a simple answer. The two games are very different in how they are set up. GC2 can have hundreds of planets, while Sins will only have dozens at the most (from what I have seen). But traveling between the planets are also completely different, as Sins uses warp lanes, and GC2 alows travel over any open space.

The single player campaign in GC2 is just ok. The first expansion is slightly better, and the second expansion is probably the best when it comes to story. It is mostly a sandbox type game, as the campaign isn't that great. The original campaign doesn't really help you to understand the mechanics as it goes along either (although both expansions do a good job of slowly teaching you the new additions to the game.) The learning curve can be pretty steep at first, especially if you never played GC1.

The fact that Sins doesn't have a campaign at all really kept me from getting into the game. I did play through about a dozen games though, and it is fun to record huge space battles to watch later.

Fleet size is different between the two as well. Sins fleets are based on a total logistic value, where each ship is assigned a value. Once you use up that total logistic value, you can't build anymore until you research higher logistics.

GC2 also uses logistics, but in a completely different way. You can build as many ships as you want (as long as you can afford the maintenance on them), but you can only build individual fleets that travel and fight together up to your researched logistics value. You can build as many of these fleets as you want though (In my current game I have about 20 fleets with a Logistics value of 30).

The battles in GC2 are actually played out in a somewhat cool cinematic, and arent the standard 4X type battle. It is not a tactical battle though, like MOO.

I think I answered all of your questions. Let me know if you have any more.

 

[CU]

Originally posted by: Martimus
GC2 also uses logistics, but in a completely different way. You can build as many ships as you want (as long as you can afford the maintenance on them), but you can only build individual fleets that travel and fight together up to your researched logistics value. You can build as many of these fleets as you want though (In my current game I have about 20 fleets with a Logistics value of 30).

Can you have more than one fleet in GC attack an enemy fleet at once? Or do you have to attack with one fleet and if you loose attack with another fleet.

Anyone know the cheapest play to get the GOLD version from?

 

[lupi]

Anyone know the details of the expansions for sins, when it's coming out/how can you buy it?

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: lupi
Anyone know the details of the expansions for sins, when it's coming out/how can you buy it?

The expansions are basically addressing complaints from their fan base. First being a turtelers wet dream, I forget the second, the third will add diplomacy (having the AI make demands on you is not diplomacy).

Don't know what the release dates are.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: CU

Originally posted by: Martimus
GC2 also uses logistics, but in a completely different way. You can build as many ships as you want (as long as you can afford the maintenance on them), but you can only build individual fleets that travel and fight together up to your researched logistics value. You can build as many of these fleets as you want though (In my current game I have about 20 fleets with a Logistics value of 30).

Can you have more than one fleet in GC attack an enemy fleet at once? Or do you have to attack with one fleet and if you loose attack with another fleet.

Anyone know the cheapest play to get the GOLD version from?

You can only attack with one fleet at a time. So the latter is exactly how it works.

I believe that Stardock has a special on the GC2 complete package for 25% off. Just download impulse, and buy it through there. You may be able to find it cheaper elsewhere though.

The gold edition only includes the first expansion. The ultimate edition is the one that includes both expansions.

EDIT: I found GC2 Ultimate edition for $24.50 at Luckito. Link

Also, it is $25.90 from GoGamer.com (since I have never heard of Luckito before). Link

 

[minmaster]

have any of you guys played a 90s game called star wars: rebellion? shares some similarities.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

For those who buy the Kalypso GC2 games, such as Endless Universe and Ultimate Edition, there might be issues with getting them patched up through Impulse (see the Gal Civ 2 forums). I like Stardock and I want to support them, and I've traditionally enjoyed 4X games with Alpha Centauri being my favorite, so GC2 has me intrigued. I'm thinking about getting the Ultimate Edition at some point when GoGamer has a sale, but I want to make sure that i can fully patch it first, too.

 

[Harmattan]

I'd say Sins of a Solar Empire is good, but Galactic Civilizations 2 is good too. But then again, Sins of a Solar Empire is a good game.

 

[CU]

Originally posted by: Martimus
I believe that Stardock has a special on the GC2 complete package for 25% off. Just download impulse, and buy it through there. You may be able to find it cheaper elsewhere though.

The gold edition only includes the first expansion. The ultimate edition is the one that includes both expansions.

EDIT: I found GC2 Ultimate edition for $24.50 at Luckito. Link

Also, it is $25.90 from GoGamer.com (since I have never heard of Luckito before). Link

Thanks for catching me on the GOLD vs Ultimate Edition. I want the Ultimate Edition. I cannot find any information on Luckito, so I doubt I will order from them. The GoGamer link you have shows the game as $34.90 not $25.90. Did it go up? Or, was that a type-o?

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: CU

Originally posted by: Martimus
I believe that Stardock has a special on the GC2 complete package for 25% off. Just download impulse, and buy it through there. You may be able to find it cheaper elsewhere though.

The gold edition only includes the first expansion. The ultimate edition is the one that includes both expansions.

EDIT: I found GC2 Ultimate edition for $24.50 at Luckito. Link

Also, it is $25.90 from GoGamer.com (since I have never heard of Luckito before). Link

Thanks for catching me on the GOLD vs Ultimate Edition. I want the Ultimate Edition. I cannot find any information on Luckito, so I doubt I will order from them. The GoGamer link you have shows the game as $34.90 not $25.90. Did it go up? Or, was that a type-o?

Looks like the price went up, plus it is now out of stock.

You can always buy it from Impulse as well (then you are purchasing directly from the developer.)

EDIT: It does seem the most expensive this way though. link

EDIT 2: I found one for $19.50, from iOffer (another store I haven't heard of). link

 

[ibex333]

Originally posted by: CU
Was looking for something new, and I am trying to decide between Sins of a Solar Empire and Galactic Civilizations 2 + expansions. I like the large tech tree and ability to build custom units in GC. Is Sins tech tree anywhere near as large? How about the maps, which has larger ones? I will only play single player, so which has a better / more human AI? Is the single player story line in GC any good? I know Sins doesn't have one yet, and that is a big draw back for me. Just not sure if I want to keep playing skirmishes against the AI. I don't mind turned based because when I play the AI in RTS games I usually set the game speed to the slowest setting anyway. What is consider a large fleet in both games? Is 20 large for Sins, and 10 large for GC. That was just an example. I have no clue how big the fleets can be in either game. I am leaning toward GC, but I will miss the pretty graphics and RTS aspects. I just think the the ability to build custom ships and largeness of the game sounds very fun. Wish it would switch to RTS during the battles. That would be the best of both worlds. Hint, Hint, Stardock.

And no I can't get both. I barely have time to play any games.

I suggest you don't buy either of them. Both games have a lot of depth, but have a lot of mediocrity in them too. For example, fans of Sins of Solar Empire make excuses for the lack of single player campaign by saying that the games sole focus is on multiplayer which is done exceptionally well. I call BS, and I attribute this to the laziness of the devs... Same laziness that made them skip on a decent campaign in GalCiv.

Off course gameplay is more important for me than movies and gfx, but stardock games are completely MISSING those elements. My biggest problem with GalCiv, is that it is mostly for the people that are willing to play that game alone for years upon years. It just takes waaaaayyyyy too much time to get anywhere in this game. I found myself getting frustrated and clicking frantically on the end turn button just to finally see that next ship design or laser.... It's excruciating. The tutorials are not very good and do not explain as much as they SHOULD explain IMO. GalCiv is probably nice for people with crappy laptops because the requirements are not too high and you can play that game forever...


As for Sins, I uninstalled that game about 2 hours after I installed it. It feels like half-a-game rather than a full one due to the lack of a single player campaign. On top of that, it just feels.... mediocre somehow. There is no feel for depth of field... It's an RTS in SPACE after all, so it should feel like Homeworld at least... But instead it feels FLAT. Like units are not flying through space but gliding on a flat field just like any generic RTS. Supposedly the sequel to Sins will change all that, but I have my doubts.

I suggest you go play EVE Online instead... Now there's an awesome game. I just cannot get enough of it. It has a ridiculously steep learning curve, but it's well worth it to stick with it and learn how to play.

 

[BladeVenom]

Ibex333, you don't like Galactic Civilizations 2 or Sins of a Solar Empire's single player campaigns. Then I have to ask how's Eve's single player campaign???

You say Gal Civ 2 take too long to play, but how long does it take to win a game of Eve? How long does it take to buy and make the largest space ship in Eve?

What you criticize Gal Civ 2 and Sins for, Eve is worse.

You only tried Sins for 2 hours. No one would like Eve after only 2 hours of play.

http://www.escapistmagazine.co...tuation/208-Eve-Online