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Single family house vs condo madness (in SoCal)

J

jinduy

Diamond Member
I've started using redfin/zillow to look at housing prices and, in an effort to maximize living space square footage, I've been looking at condos (separate walls).

so with my down payment, a condo mortgage payment in my range runs about $1600.

for single family homes, i'd probably be looking at $1900-2000 payments for something satisfactory

now what's crazy is the average HOA fee for these condos run anywhere from $200-$350.

at that point, it seems like almost a no brainer to go for a house because HOA fees do increase over time. is there something else i'm missing which gives condos an advantage or does it seem real obvious that HOA fees are like a deal killer?
 
drum said:
what are the property taxes like on the home
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i think it's about 1% here in la county... so a house is like $475k and a condo (with similar living space) is about $420k

so a $500 difference, divided by 12 turns out to be about $42 a month extra
 
you could look at the time=money factor, assuming the HOA fee means that you don't have to spend time on grounds landscaping and upkeep.
 
My fiancee owns a condo in the Bay Area where housing prices and HOA fees are somewhat similar to what you're referencing. From what I can see, the benefits to a condo are that the HOA will take care of the grounds/yard, there's a pool/spa/recreation room, and I think there are certain other things on the exterior part of the condo that your HOA fees pay for like painting/roofing/etc. At least for her, the HOA fee also includes garbage and water. The drawback of a condo is that you might have crazy/loud neighbors. There's a lady in my fiancee's complex who walks around every night police-ing and making sure that cars are parked in the right spot. If they aren't she takes pictures and reports it. Yeah - what a bitch. I'm quite positive I'll have words with her once I move in.

For a single family home, on the other hand, you're out the money regardless on all of that stuff - ever looked at how much it costs to paint a house? However, you have the benefit of living separated from other people and not having a different family below you or beside you like apartment living.
 
Don't assume that the single family home won't have an HOA fee as well. If it does, however, it is likely substantially less than a condo fee, but it varies from neighborhood to neighborhood.
 
how much do you guys think it would cost me a month to maintain the exterior of my home that would normally be maintained by HOA? stuff like lawn, trash, water (don't care for a pool)
 
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a single house appreciates? more than a condo.

Also you won't get stuck with sudden big bills from your HOA like if they decide to redo all the roofs, you might get a $5,000 bill for your share which is then added onto the HOA. WIth a home, if your roof needs replacing, you get to choose when to totally redo the roof, not an HOA. Of course you'll have to scramble to fix the leaks first yourself.

Or you get hit with assessment fees. One townhouse I looked at went into litigation and had to come up with money to sue the builders. Where did they get the money from? the condo tenants of course. Also paying HOA feels like just dumping money down the drain.

Also rising HOA's kill your condo value. I've seen condos in the Bay Area where the owner was just begging you to take the condo off their hands because the HOA's went up to like $600 a month!

IMHO, if you can afford the mortgage of 1900-2000 a month, go with the single house.
 
jinduy said:
how much do you guys think it would cost me a month to maintain the exterior of my home that would normally be maintained by HOA? stuff like lawn, trash, water (don't care for a pool)
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I'm "technically" in L.A. county and trash runs about $20/month. Water is about 25/month in the winter and 40/month in the summer. I do my own lawn every other week.

IMHO living in a condo is the same as renting an apt. You'll have very little privacy and at least for me, I enjoy working on my Jeep in the garage. Good luck doing that in a townhouse. Property values appreciate at a much faster rate for homes than they do for condos.

Just the term HOA sends chills down my spine.
 
jinduy said:
how much do you guys think it would cost me a month to maintain the exterior of my home that would normally be maintained by HOA? stuff like lawn, trash, water (don't care for a pool)
Click to expand...

I live in SoCal and owned both a condo and now a single family home. The HOA fees at the condo complex we used to live (very nice gated community) are now approaching $400/month. We have an HOA for our house but in the last 11 years it went from $69/month to the current $80/month. It covers common area maintenance, landscaping, and maintaining the tot lots.

I do my own yard work. A $200 bag and mulch lawn mower plus a decent gas powered weed whacker has served me well for years. Water depends on how much you use obviously but you'd have to pay for your water in a condominium too...not much difference there. Trash is about $60/month.

Our house was built in 1994 and has required very little maintenance. The roof is concrete tile and in excellent shape, never any leaks, and we had the exterior stucco painted once which cost us around $2,500 IIRC.

Where in SoCal are you looking?
 
I don't know about real estate in socal but I'd go with house. Land tends to hold on to its value better so it's a better long term investment. Condo's are basically just buying floor space.
 
Condo fees sometimes covers things. For example, my condo fees cover

1) Water
2) Garbage
3) Landscaping
4) Roofs
5) Painting
6) Snow Removal

For $145/mo.
 
I've heard of people in Atlanta who pay two or three times that amount in HOA fees, so sadly, $200-350/month no longer shocks me.
 
jinduy said:
I've started using redfin/zillow to look at housing prices and, in an effort to maximize living space square footage, I've been looking at condos (separate walls).

so with my down payment, a condo mortgage payment in my range runs about $1600.

for single family homes, i'd probably be looking at $1900-2000 payments for something satisfactory

now what's crazy is the average HOA fee for these condos run anywhere from $200-$350.

at that point, it seems like almost a no brainer to go for a house because HOA fees do increase over time. is there something else i'm missing which gives condos an advantage or does it seem real obvious that HOA fees are like a deal killer?
Click to expand...
Most HOA's suck ass.
Too high a percentage of rentals will screw a reasonable condo arrangement.
Too big a complex and HOAs get political, as in DRAMA
and too many delinquent payers means cash flow issues.
 
Don't rely on zillow for housing prices, ever.

The biggest benefit for condos is typically their lower taxes, lower personal effort in maintenance and utility costs rolled into one fee.
 
JulesMaximus said:
I live in SoCal and owned both a condo and now a single family home. The HOA fees at the condo complex we used to live (very nice gated community) are now approaching $400/month. We have an HOA for our house but in the last 11 years it went from $69/month to the current $80/month. It covers common area maintenance, landscaping, and maintaining the tot lots.

I do my own yard work. A $200 bag and mulch lawn mower plus a decent gas powered weed whacker has served me well for years. Water depends on how much you use obviously but you'd have to pay for your water in a condominium too...not much difference there. Trash is about $60/month.

Our house was built in 1994 and has required very little maintenance. The roof is concrete tile and in excellent shape, never any leaks, and we had the exterior stucco painted once which cost us around $2,500 IIRC.

Where in SoCal are you looking?
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in the safer neighborhoods of the san gabriel valley around the 10 freeway and 605, currently looking in the pasadena and monrovia area, but the homes there are very old for my price range... not willing to go much further east of the 605.
 
I own property with HOA's; never again! HOA's, although they cover some services is like legalized extortion. They can pretty much raise it at will every year and if you don't pay they can place a lien on your property.
 
HOA fees are bad here in the Seattle area too, one recent article on a condo was bragging about how low the fees were at only 42 cents per sq foot -- $420/month for a 1,000 sq ft!

That's why I still rent and invest the difference. I only get my standard deduction instead of he mortgage interest writeoff, but no HOA, property taxes or mortgage that's $1,000+ more than my rent.
 
jinduy said:
i'm starting to think the logical choice right now is just to rent for the forseeable future :-\
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there are some areas where, from a purely financial standpoint, it just about never makes sense to buy versus rent (but, of course, there are tons of non-monetary benefits to owning)
 
DaveSimmons said:
HOA fees are bad here in the Seattle area too, one recent article on a condo was bragging about how low the fees were at only 42 cents per sq foot -- $420/month for a 1,000 sq ft!

That's why I still rent and invest the difference. I only get my standard deduction instead of he mortgage interest writeoff, but no HOA, property taxes or mortgage that's $1,000+ more than my rent.
Click to expand...

wow, that's a huge difference.

In the area I'm buying, 2 bedroom comparable condos rent for ~$1400/mo. My mortgage + HOA + $1650/mo.
 
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