Since we are already talking about drugs

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I do not believe that site is exactly objective

You don't have to believe anything. It's not your family or Grandfather who is having the issue.
I hope you never have to go through a substance abuse problem with a loved one.
We'll see how objective you are then.

Umm... ok. Lets see here... do I believe some half-assed treatment center or a pharmacist? Do I believe someone who has gone through Substance Abuse or do I believe some random guy that links to treatment centers? Well, do as you want AlienCraft, but that at that amount and the amount of tolerance, I really doubt he even gets an opiate high anymore. Probably just keeps him from going through the withdrawal. But hey, lets not be objective about something like this. Obviously a site that says Vicodin addiction is FATAL is much more accurate than what someone with training, or experience could tell you.

BTW, I am the "abuser" and the guy you were replying to earlier happens to be a pharmacist, althought I doubt his ego would allow him to bring it up. He is much to humble for that.

Anyways, objectivity is needed in any substance abuse case. Some people need treatment and some don't. Some need intensive in-patient treatment, and others just need some type of outpatient support. Some people just decide to stop one day and do.

Everyone is not the same.

If "he" was indeed a pharmacist, and he didn't link or reference any of the commonly available information about Vicodin abuse, he is remiss in his responsibilities for full disclosure.
The training he's alleged to have received will have verified all of what is being discussed here.
I'm not making any of this up. I have no agenda other than to point information, other than, "it's cool" his way.
Vicodin has an abuse potential as well as fatal effects on long term abuse/ overdose.
You have some problem with the facts?

Why would he have to? I didn't realize the Grandfather was one of his clients? Secondly, you say he is remiss, because he didn't link to something YOU WANT to hear.

/me is done with this thread.

I really doubt that you are through with this thread. You seem to need to rationalize Vicodin abuse.
I still haven't heard anyone say they are a Licensed Pharmacist and that what I am saying is off base or inaccurate.
WHAT I have seen are emotional responses to a critical element in Topod's Life, instead of facts, presented in a careful and cautious manner. It won't seem overblown when Topod's Grandfather-in law has a liver failure brought on by the acetominophen degradation compounded by a lifetime of who knows what.
Equating a synthetic Opiod to Marijuana is ludicrous, but that is the sort of emotional responses I'm referring to. If in fact everyone is different, you will have to acknowledge that SOME people cannot tolerate Marijuana and for them it is a serious drug.
Perhaps I am being overly cautious. So what, No one ever had to rehab from too much caution.

And to NuclearFusion, If he doesn't wan't to deal withdrawel, doesn't that inherently mean it's reached a point of addiction? Why would a DR. allow a patient to remain addicted to a drug that has the potential to kill?
The potential legal fallout is wayyyy to high , regardless of the moral implications.

Peace to all of us and Good Luck to Topod.

<Said all I need to say here.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

AlienCraft

What I have stated in my posts were accurate.

It all comes down to risk vs. benefit. Do some people become addicted. Yes they do. Do some die? Yes, of course. Now what is the probability of that happening to a given individual? Pretty low. Grandpa is not out there holding up drug stores for his next fix, or we are not led to believe so. Have you considered the risks of alternate therapy? What about NSAIDS? What if he is on warfarin?

Now, as to that site-
Pretty extreme don't you think? How about statistics? Nope. None. It's only function is to frighten, not educate.

If you look at the number of doses of Vicodin being dispensed, and it were as dangerous as it infers, would you not think it would be all over the papers? It isn't. That's because it is a useful and beneficial medication when prescribed and used appropriately. Is it 100% safe? No. Your sad experience shows it is not. Neither is anything else. I could tell you about deaths by GI bleeding from Motrin. That isn't a blast either.

BTW, I would not usually bring this up since it is not anyone's business, but while you were debating the merits of my posts, and perhaps my parentage I was engaged in a more detailed PM with todpod. The contents are not for you however, since I never divulge PMs in private or here in the open. I will say that I addressed the issue more completely and appropriately there.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: WarCon
My question is this....Is grandpa still in chronic pain? If he is what treatment route is effective and 100% safe.

From reading those "insightful" websites, it seems to me that the biggest problem with these opiate based painkillers is the addiction which leads to ever increasing doses which then threaten to slow and make less effective the respiratory system, or did I misread those sites. You should ask the doctor (and maybe your grandfather since he is an adult old enough to be well your grandfather) though to see if he needs them still and if there is a low stress way of handling the withdrawal from them if he doesn't really need them anymore. You wouldn't want to kill him.

One of my close friends is in serious chronic pain from several deflated disks in his back do to a car accident and he takes oxycontin at near its maximum dose daily. I personally would like to see him on something that affects his mind less (makes him pretty fuzzy sometimes), but I have no idea what that would be right now. They even went in and tried to sever the nerves to stop the pain, but it was pretty ineffective.

I personally suffer from chronic pain (arthritis and an old shoulder injury that should of had surgery), but have yet to go the prescription route as seeing my friend on his "fuzzy" days is quite enough to keep me from going that route.

This is the dilemma with Chronic Pain Treatment. Finding something that will take the pain away and still leave one able to function.
I have arthiritis as well, and so far a couple of NSAID (Non steroidal Anti inflammatory drugs) is all I need to keep it at bay. I had a friend offer me his Dr. so I could get a prescription for weed, but I haven't taken him up on that.... yet.
Maybe the wonders of Chemical Science will yet unlock that magic Molecule to ease the pain, leave the mind clear, and the psyche unaffected as well.
One can only hope.

 

[NuclearFusi0n]

Hey AlienCraft, it doesn't have the "potential to kill" especially not in 4 pill doses. It couldn't hurt to lose the APAP though. Google for "APAP Cold Water Extraction"

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Hey AlienCraft, it doesn't have the "potential to kill" especially not in 4 pill doses. It couldn't hurt to lose the APAP though. Google for "APAP Cold Water Extraction"

I want to know what dosage of APAP/Hydrocodone is he taking. Vicodin doesn't really tell me much. It could be any number of combinations of the two... so...

The APAP is certainly a problem, but side effects happen with every drug as we are all aware.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
AlienCraft

What I have stated in my posts were accurate.

It all comes down to risk vs. benefit. Do some people become addicted. Yes they do. Do some die? Yes, of course. Now what is the probability of that happening to a given individual? Pretty low. Grandpa is not out there holding up drug stores for his next fix, or we are not led to believe so. Have you considered the risks of alternate therapy? What about NSAIDS? What if he is on warfarin?

Now, as to that site-
Pretty extreme don't you think? How about statistics? Nope. None. It's only function is to frighten, not educate.

If you look at the number of doses of Vicodin being dispensed, and it were as dangerous as it infers, would you not think it would be all over the papers? It isn't. That's because it is a useful and beneficial medication when prescribed and used appropriately. Is it 100% safe? No. Your sad experience shows it is not. Neither is anything else. I could tell you about deaths by GI bleeding from Motrin. That isn't a blast either.

BTW, I would not usually bring this up since it is not anyone's business, but while you were debating the merits of my posts, and perhaps my parentage I was engaged in a more detailed PM with todpod. The contents are not for you however, since I never divulge PMs in private or here in the open. I will say that I addressed the issue more completely and appropriately there.

Are you the Pharmacist in question?
If so, then I defer to your professional training and education. Furthermore, I'll apologize if you felt lumped in with the "Armchair Pharmacologists" remark as well. I hope you can understand why I might make such a comment, here on ATOT where everyone seems to be an expert on everything. < Sarcasm meter should be pegged, if you need to re-calibrate.
I respect what you've said here, yet would still advise Todpod in a cautious manner.
I hope that wasn't lost on you.
If you can show me where I was disparaging of your parentage, I would like to see it.
If you're referencing my comment"Unless you're a coldhearted bastard, but I don't know anything of that either" comment, I will say you are stretching it a bit. Sorry if your sarcasm meter was temporarily out as well.

 

[Entity]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
AlienCraft

What I have stated in my posts were accurate.

It all comes down to risk vs. benefit. Do some people become addicted. Yes they do. Do some die? Yes, of course. Now what is the probability of that happening to a given individual? Pretty low. Grandpa is not out there holding up drug stores for his next fix, or we are not led to believe so. Have you considered the risks of alternate therapy? What about NSAIDS? What if he is on warfarin?

Now, as to that site-
Pretty extreme don't you think? How about statistics? Nope. None. It's only function is to frighten, not educate.

If you look at the number of doses of Vicodin being dispensed, and it were as dangerous as it infers, would you not think it would be all over the papers? It isn't. That's because it is a useful and beneficial medication when prescribed and used appropriately. Is it 100% safe? No. Your sad experience shows it is not. Neither is anything else. I could tell you about deaths by GI bleeding from Motrin. That isn't a blast either.

BTW, I would not usually bring this up since it is not anyone's business, but while you were debating the merits of my posts, and perhaps my parentage I was engaged in a more detailed PM with todpod. The contents are not for you however, since I never divulge PMs in private or here in the open. I will say that I addressed the issue more completely and appropriately there.

Are you the Pharmacist in question?
If so, then I defer to your professional training and education. And I'll apologize if you felt lumped in with the "armchair Pharmacologists" remark as well. I hope you canb understand why I might make such a comment, here on ATOT where everyone seems to be an expert on everything. < Sarcasm meter should be pegged, if you need to re-calibrate.
I respect what you've said here, yet would still advise Todpod in a cautious manner.
I hope that wasn't lost on you.
If you can show me wher I was disparaging of your parentage, I would like to see it.
If you're referencing my comment"Unless you're a coldhearted bastard, but I don't know anything of that either" comment, I will say you are stretching it a bit. Sorry if your sarcasm meter was temporaily out as well.

Assuming WinstonSmith is the new name for Hayabusarider, then yes, he is the Pharmacist in question.

Rob

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Hey AlienCraft, it doesn't have the "potential to kill" especially not in 4 pill doses. It couldn't hurt to lose the APAP though. Google for "APAP Cold Water Extraction"

I want to know what dosage of APAP/Hydrocodone is he taking. Vicodin doesn't really tell me much. It could be any number of combinations of the two... so...

The APAP is certainly a problem, but side effects happen with every drug as we are all aware.

The recommended dosage of APAP is 4000 mg. If he is taking the standard strength, he would be taking 2000 mg per day. If it is Vicodin HP, he is getting 3000. It can be hell on the liver though, so this the recommended dose for otherwise healthy adults.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Hey AlienCraft, it doesn't have the "potential to kill" especially not in 4 pill doses. It couldn't hurt to lose the APAP though. Google for "APAP Cold Water Extraction"

I want to know what dosage of APAP/Hydrocodone is he taking. Vicodin doesn't really tell me much. It could be any number of combinations of the two... so...

The APAP is certainly a problem, but side effects happen with every drug as we are all aware.

The recommended dosage of APAP is 4000 mg. If he is taking the standard strength, he would be taking 2000 mg per day. If it is Vicodin HP, he is getting 3000. It can be hell on the liver though, so this the recommended dose for otherwise healthy adults.

Lets hope Gramps isn't downing any cocktails or beer then.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
AlienCraft

What I have stated in my posts were accurate.

It all comes down to risk vs. benefit. Do some people become addicted. Yes they do. Do some die? Yes, of course. Now what is the probability of that happening to a given individual? Pretty low. Grandpa is not out there holding up drug stores for his next fix, or we are not led to believe so. Have you considered the risks of alternate therapy? What about NSAIDS? What if he is on warfarin?

Now, as to that site-
Pretty extreme don't you think? How about statistics? Nope. None. It's only function is to frighten, not educate.

If you look at the number of doses of Vicodin being dispensed, and it were as dangerous as it infers, would you not think it would be all over the papers? It isn't. That's because it is a useful and beneficial medication when prescribed and used appropriately. Is it 100% safe? No. Your sad experience shows it is not. Neither is anything else. I could tell you about deaths by GI bleeding from Motrin. That isn't a blast either.

BTW, I would not usually bring this up since it is not anyone's business, but while you were debating the merits of my posts, and perhaps my parentage I was engaged in a more detailed PM with todpod. The contents are not for you however, since I never divulge PMs in private or here in the open. I will say that I addressed the issue more completely and appropriately there.

Are you the Pharmacist in question?
If so, then I defer to your professional training and education. Furthermore, I'll apologize if you felt lumped in with the "Armchair Pharmacologists" remark as well. I hope you can understand why I might make such a comment, here on ATOT where everyone seems to be an expert on everything. < Sarcasm meter should be pegged, if you need to re-calibrate.
I respect what you've said here, yet would still advise Todpod in a cautious manner.
I hope that wasn't lost on you.
If you can show me where I was disparaging of your parentage, I would like to see it.
If you're referencing my comment"Unless you're a coldhearted bastard, but I don't know anything of that either" comment, I will say you are stretching it a bit. Sorry if your sarcasm meter was temporarily out as well.

I think we all can stand down. I am the erstwhile Hayabusarider, and my undergrad degree is indeed in pharmacy.

You should have noticed the smiley with the comment about my parentage, to indicate a joke. As I said, I had a more detailed PM with tod, and I understand his concern, and I can appreciate yours.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Entity

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
AlienCraft

What I have stated in my posts were accurate.

It all comes down to risk vs. benefit. Do some people become addicted. Yes they do. Do some die? Yes, of course. Now what is the probability of that happening to a given individual? Pretty low. Grandpa is not out there holding up drug stores for his next fix, or we are not led to believe so. Have you considered the risks of alternate therapy? What about NSAIDS? What if he is on warfarin?

Now, as to that site-
Pretty extreme don't you think? How about statistics? Nope. None. It's only function is to frighten, not educate.

If you look at the number of doses of Vicodin being dispensed, and it were as dangerous as it infers, would you not think it would be all over the papers? It isn't. That's because it is a useful and beneficial medication when prescribed and used appropriately. Is it 100% safe? No. Your sad experience shows it is not. Neither is anything else. I could tell you about deaths by GI bleeding from Motrin. That isn't a blast either.

BTW, I would not usually bring this up since it is not anyone's business, but while you were debating the merits of my posts, and perhaps my parentage I was engaged in a more detailed PM with todpod. The contents are not for you however, since I never divulge PMs in private or here in the open. I will say that I addressed the issue more completely and appropriately there.

Are you the Pharmacist in question?
If so, then I defer to your professional training and education. And I'll apologize if you felt lumped in with the "armchair Pharmacologists" remark as well. I hope you canb understand why I might make such a comment, here on ATOT where everyone seems to be an expert on everything. < Sarcasm meter should be pegged, if you need to re-calibrate.
I respect what you've said here, yet would still advise Todpod in a cautious manner.
I hope that wasn't lost on you.
If you can show me wher I was disparaging of your parentage, I would like to see it.
If you're referencing my comment"Unless you're a coldhearted bastard, but I don't know anything of that either" comment, I will say you are stretching it a bit. Sorry if your sarcasm meter was temporaily out as well.

Assuming WinstonSmith is the new name for Hayabusarider, then yes, he is the Pharmacist in question.

Rob

I'm still waiting for him to answer. If it's a new name, why is it registered back in 2000 with over 7,800 posts. I remember Hayabusarider, though.
Whatever, I'm sure ya'll are as tired of the back and forth as I am.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
AlienCraft

What I have stated in my posts were accurate.

It all comes down to risk vs. benefit. Do some people become addicted. Yes they do. Do some die? Yes, of course. Now what is the probability of that happening to a given individual? Pretty low. Grandpa is not out there holding up drug stores for his next fix, or we are not led to believe so. Have you considered the risks of alternate therapy? What about NSAIDS? What if he is on warfarin?

Now, as to that site-
Pretty extreme don't you think? How about statistics? Nope. None. It's only function is to frighten, not educate.

If you look at the number of doses of Vicodin being dispensed, and it were as dangerous as it infers, would you not think it would be all over the papers? It isn't. That's because it is a useful and beneficial medication when prescribed and used appropriately. Is it 100% safe? No. Your sad experience shows it is not. Neither is anything else. I could tell you about deaths by GI bleeding from Motrin. That isn't a blast either.

BTW, I would not usually bring this up since it is not anyone's business, but while you were debating the merits of my posts, and perhaps my parentage I was engaged in a more detailed PM with todpod. The contents are not for you however, since I never divulge PMs in private or here in the open. I will say that I addressed the issue more completely and appropriately there.

Are you the Pharmacist in question?
If so, then I defer to your professional training and education. Furthermore, I'll apologize if you felt lumped in with the "Armchair Pharmacologists" remark as well. I hope you can understand why I might make such a comment, here on ATOT where everyone seems to be an expert on everything. < Sarcasm meter should be pegged, if you need to re-calibrate.
I respect what you've said here, yet would still advise Todpod in a cautious manner.
I hope that wasn't lost on you.
If you can show me where I was disparaging of your parentage, I would like to see it.
If you're referencing my comment"Unless you're a coldhearted bastard, but I don't know anything of that either" comment, I will say you are stretching it a bit. Sorry if your sarcasm meter was temporarily out as well.

I think we all can stand down. I am the erstwhile Hayabusarider, and my undergrad degree is indeed in pharmacy.

You should have noticed the smiley with the comment about my parentage, to indicate a joke. As I said, I had a more detailed PM with tod, and I understand his concern, and I can appreciate yours.

Cool, duly noted.
You da Man!

BTW, I looked up Warfarin and I'm a little perplexed at why you mentioned that.
Is it a common drug among the elderly for Heart / Blood Pressure concerns? Were you mentioning that as an adjucnt to NSAID interaction? vis a vis your reference to alternative treatments?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
AlienCraft

What I have stated in my posts were accurate.

It all comes down to risk vs. benefit. Do some people become addicted. Yes they do. Do some die? Yes, of course. Now what is the probability of that happening to a given individual? Pretty low. Grandpa is not out there holding up drug stores for his next fix, or we are not led to believe so. Have you considered the risks of alternate therapy? What about NSAIDS? What if he is on warfarin?

Now, as to that site-
Pretty extreme don't you think? How about statistics? Nope. None. It's only function is to frighten, not educate.

If you look at the number of doses of Vicodin being dispensed, and it were as dangerous as it infers, would you not think it would be all over the papers? It isn't. That's because it is a useful and beneficial medication when prescribed and used appropriately. Is it 100% safe? No. Your sad experience shows it is not. Neither is anything else. I could tell you about deaths by GI bleeding from Motrin. That isn't a blast either.

BTW, I would not usually bring this up since it is not anyone's business, but while you were debating the merits of my posts, and perhaps my parentage I was engaged in a more detailed PM with todpod. The contents are not for you however, since I never divulge PMs in private or here in the open. I will say that I addressed the issue more completely and appropriately there.

Are you the Pharmacist in question?
If so, then I defer to your professional training and education. Furthermore, I'll apologize if you felt lumped in with the "Armchair Pharmacologists" remark as well. I hope you can understand why I might make such a comment, here on ATOT where everyone seems to be an expert on everything. < Sarcasm meter should be pegged, if you need to re-calibrate.
I respect what you've said here, yet would still advise Todpod in a cautious manner.
I hope that wasn't lost on you.
If you can show me where I was disparaging of your parentage, I would like to see it.
If you're referencing my comment"Unless you're a coldhearted bastard, but I don't know anything of that either" comment, I will say you are stretching it a bit. Sorry if your sarcasm meter was temporarily out as well.

I think we all can stand down. I am the erstwhile Hayabusarider, and my undergrad degree is indeed in pharmacy.

You should have noticed the smiley with the comment about my parentage, to indicate a joke. As I said, I had a more detailed PM with tod, and I understand his concern, and I can appreciate yours.

Cool, duly noted.
You da Man!

BTW, I looked up Warfarin and I'm a little perplexed at why you mentioned that.
Is it a common drug among the elderly for Heart / Blood Pressure concerns? Were you mentioning that as an adjucnt to NSAID interaction? vis a vis your reference to alternative treatments?

Warfarin AKA Coumadin is a blood thinner in common use. The elderly are more prone to conditions warranting it's use, so a wise practitioner will always want to be aware of that. The problem with it is that the majority of medications will either increase it's actions resulting in a possible bleed, or reduce it, leaving it pretty much useless. NSAIDS are renound for playing havoc with warfarin. If a patient were to take one, it COULD cause a problem. Certainly at the least, the warfarin dosage would need to be monitored and probably adjusted. Sometimes that is harder that you might think to get right. BTW, not all NSAIDS are equal in that respect. Aspirin is much worse than ibuprofen (motrin).