Since we are already talking about drugs

[todpod]

My wifes grandpa who is 72 or so takes 4 Vicadin(sp) a day and has for about 2 yrs now. I didn't realize that he has be taking that much for so long. According to the stuff that i have read its addtive and loses its effectiveness over time.

He had shoulder surgery a couple of yrs ago and the surgon prescribed it, and his reg DR kepts prescribing it. The bottle of this that he has is huge. It didn't have it for a couple of days and he was very unhappy from what I hear..

He has many other serious health problems and it would seem the vicadin is helping him much other then feed his addiction, which I am sure he doesn't realize he has. The Dr apparently is just going to continue the status quo, and his daughter, my m-in-law, seems unwilling to do anything for fear of provoking him.

So whats the best way of handling this short of ignoring it, it will proably kill him eventually. I have never dealt with anything like this before and would like to help him, he has always treated me well and hate to see him go through this.

 

[HappyPuppy]

Why would the Vicadin kill him unless he takes the whole bottle?

 

[Cougar]

Just 'cause he takes 4 a day doesn't mean that's it's going to kill him. Back when I still took Vicoden and I got really sick I would take 2 every three hours so I could kill off a prescription of 50 in no time flat. I'm still alive and well (so to speak) and I've basically been on pain meds for my entire life (granted the stuff I got when I was a kid was no where near as strong as what I take now but I'm sure you get the point).

Have you tried talking to him about it and see what he says? Don't just flat out accuse him of being a druggie but just ask him whether or not he still has pain in his shoulder and he feels he needs to take Vicoden to get by.

 

[todpod]

I don't think they will directly kill him, but he does exhibit some of the side effects listed for it, which in combination with other factors (like driving a car) may kill him and/or somebody else.

I don' think he has any idea about maybe being addited to the stuff, if he is. I was hoping to get mother - in - law to talk to his dr about it but i don't think thats going to happen.

I think he does have some pain, but he hasn't kept up with his PT either which may help some of the pain.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

He probably has some dependence, but you cannot say he is addicted. Even if he were, he is 72 and chronic pain. It wont hurt him. Getting too much acetaminophen (tylenol to the masses) could be a problem since this has that in it, but if taken as directed, I think you can chill

 

[Spac3d]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
He probably has some dependence, but you cannot say he is addicted. Even if he were, he is 72 and chronic pain. It wont hurt him. Getting too much acetaminophen (tylenol to the masses) could be a problem since this has that in it, but if taken as directed, I think you can chill

Well said.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: todpod
My wifes grandpa who is 72 or so takes 4 Vicadin(sp) a day and has for about 2 yrs now. I didn't realize that he has be taking that much for so long. According to the stuff that i have read its addtive and loses its effectiveness over time.

He had shoulder surgery a couple of yrs ago and the surgon prescribed it, and his reg DR kepts prescribing it. The bottle of this that he has is huge. It didn't have it for a couple of days and he was very unhappy from what I hear..

He has many other serious health problems and it would seem the vicadin is helping him much other then feed his addiction, which I am sure he doesn't realize he has. The Dr apparently is just going to continue the status quo, and his daughter, my m-in-law, seems unwilling to do anything for fear of provoking him.

So whats the best way of handling this short of ignoring it, it will proably kill him eventually. I have never dealt with anything like this before and would like to help him, he has always treated me well and hate to see him go through this.

How about some FACTS about Vicodin addiction., instead of listening to armchair pharmacologists.
Vicodin addiction is on the rise because the FEDs have put the hammer down on MD's who prescribe the more effective, but politically verboten, morphine derivatives. Vicodin is a synthetic.
You need to say something lest he have an "incident".
The guilt would be unbearable, I would think.

 

[todpod]

Thanks Aliencraft. Need to get Mother in law to take to the DR. The Dr just seems to let things slide until there are big problems.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I do not believe that site is exactly objective

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: todpod
Thanks Aliencraft. Need to get Mother in law to take to the DR. The Dr just seems to let things slide until there are big problems.

You're welcome. I have a friend in L.A. whose BF is addicited to those damn things. The asshat drives his kids around while high on them and I cannot, for the life of me, convince her she needs to get the ex-wife involved for the kids sake.
God forbid anything should happen while they are visiting him.
I suggest printing out the page I linked and underlining the relevant points. Give it to her.

Good luck to you and your Grandfather(and family).

 

[rommelrommel]

Originally posted by: Spac3d

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
He probably has some dependence, but you cannot say he is addicted. Even if he were, he is 72 and chronic pain. It wont hurt him. Getting too much acetaminophen (tylenol to the masses) could be a problem since this has that in it, but if taken as directed, I think you can chill

Well said.

Agreed.

 

[todpod]

It may not be entirely objective but I do think there is some cause for concern, and with his heart disease, diabetes and other ailments as well as the lack of concern of the dr on many levels is what has me worried. He sleeps many hours during the day and falls asleep at a drop of a hat. We have tried to get him to change Drs but he won't budge.

On the good end He seems to only take the prescribed amount.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I do not believe that site is exactly objective

You don't have to believe anything. It's not your family or Grandfather who is having the issue.
I hope you never have to go through a substance abuse problem with a loved one.
We'll see how objective you are then.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I do not believe that site is exactly objective

You don't have to believe anything. It's not your family or Grandfather who is having the issue.
I hope you never have to go through a substance abuse problem with a loved one.
We'll see how objective you are then.

Well, you seem to know a great deal about me. What is my personal and educational background? What have I seen or had to deal with? Please be specific.

Now if he has a question, he can always ask the doc. Perhaps it would be better if he got his own answers that way instead of a "scare" website.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I do not believe that site is exactly objective

You don't have to believe anything. It's not your family or Grandfather who is having the issue.
I hope you never have to go through a substance abuse problem with a loved one.
We'll see how objective you are then.

Umm... ok. Lets see here... do I believe some half-assed treatment center or a pharmacist? Do I believe someone who has gone through Substance Abuse or do I believe some random guy that links to treatment centers? Well, do as you want AlienCraft, but that at that amount and the amount of tolerance, I really doubt he even gets an opiate high anymore. Probably just keeps him from going through the withdrawal. But hey, lets not be objective about something like this. Obviously a site that says Vicodin addiction is FATAL is much more accurate than what someone with training, or experience could tell you.

BTW, I am the "abuser" and the guy you were replying to earlier happens to be a pharmacist, althought I doubt his ego would allow him to bring it up. He is much to humble for that.

Anyways, objectivity is needed in any substance abuse case. Some people need treatment and some don't. Some need intensive in-patient treatment, and others just need some type of outpatient support. Some people just decide to stop one day and do.

Everyone is not the same.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: rommelrommel

Originally posted by: Spac3d

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
He probably has some dependence, but you cannot say he is addicted. Even if he were, he is 72 and chronic pain. It wont hurt him. Getting too much acetaminophen (tylenol to the masses) could be a problem since this has that in it, but if taken as directed, I think you can chill

Well said.

Agreed.

Disagree
From the NIDA...
What are opioids and what are the potential consequences of their use and abuse?
Opioids, include morphine, codeine, and related drugs such as oxycodone (OxyContin), hydrocodone (Vicodin), and meperidine (Demerol) and are commonly prescribed to relieve pain. Opioids can produce drowsiness and, in higher doses, depress respiration. Opioid drugs also can cause euphoria.

Taken as prescribed, opioids can be used to manage pain effectively without untoward side effects. Chronic use of opioids can result in tolerance, which means that users must take higher doses to achieve the same effects. Long-term use also can lead to physical dependence and addiction; withdrawal can occur when an individual discontinues use of the drugs. Withdrawal symptoms may include restlessness, muscle and bone pain, insomnia, diarrhea, vomiting, cold flashes with goose bumps, and involuntary leg movements. Individuals who are addicted to opioids are more likely to overdose on the drugs, which could be fatal.



From the NIDA....

 

[todpod]

So before this becomes an all out flame fest. The linked site maybe useful if I can get mother-in-law to talk to the Dr. Thats my main goal here. The Dr in ? ignored grandmas Heart condition until it almost killed her. I just want to make sure he paying attention to whats going one.


So thanks for the info everyone, you can now ignore this thread.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I do not believe that site is exactly objective

You don't have to believe anything. It's not your family or Grandfather who is having the issue.
I hope you never have to go through a substance abuse problem with a loved one.
We'll see how objective you are then.

Well, you seem to know a great deal about me. What is my personal and educational background? What have I seen or had to deal with? Please be specific.

Now if he has a question, he can always ask the doc. Perhaps it would be better if he got his own answers that way instead of a "scare" website.

All I did was Google Search "Vicodin Addiction" and listed one of the first hits.
If you wish to peruse some of the other 11 pages + of links, be my guest, but I haven't read any in there that say anything to the contrary.
I made no assumptions of you or your education or anything else.
I simply said I hope you never have to go through a substance abuse problem with a loved one.
If you have, then you know of the pain and angst I'm speaking of.
Unless you're a cold hearted bastard, but then I wouldn't know any of that either.
Excuse me if I happen to make a generalization based in caution rather than taking it lightly.
Chill yourself. I fail to see where I personally affronted you.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: rommelrommel

Originally posted by: Spac3d

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
He probably has some dependence, but you cannot say he is addicted. Even if he were, he is 72 and chronic pain. It wont hurt him. Getting too much acetaminophen (tylenol to the masses) could be a problem since this has that in it, but if taken as directed, I think you can chill

Well said.

Agreed.

Disagree
From the NIDA...
What are opioids and what are the potential consequences of their use and abuse?
Opioids, include morphine, codeine, and related drugs such as oxycodone (OxyContin), hydrocodone (Vicodin), and meperidine (Demerol) and are commonly prescribed to relieve pain. Opioids can produce drowsiness and, in higher doses, depress respiration. Opioid drugs also can cause euphoria.

Taken as prescribed, opioids can be used to manage pain effectively without untoward side effects. Chronic use of opioids can result in tolerance, which means that users must take higher doses to achieve the same effects. Long-term use also can lead to physical dependence and addiction; withdrawal can occur when an individual discontinues use of the drugs. Withdrawal symptoms may include restlessness, muscle and bone pain, insomnia, diarrhea, vomiting, cold flashes with goose bumps, and involuntary leg movements. Individuals who are addicted to opioids are more likely to overdose on the drugs, which could be fatal.



From the NIDA....

Another one of these threads? You have no real opinion, but rather search google for what you selectively want to use. Nice.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I do not believe that site is exactly objective

You don't have to believe anything. It's not your family or Grandfather who is having the issue.
I hope you never have to go through a substance abuse problem with a loved one.
We'll see how objective you are then.

Umm... ok. Lets see here... do I believe some half-assed treatment center or a pharmacist? Do I believe someone who has gone through Substance Abuse or do I believe some random guy that links to treatment centers? Well, do as you want AlienCraft, but that at that amount and the amount of tolerance, I really doubt he even gets an opiate high anymore. Probably just keeps him from going through the withdrawal. But hey, lets not be objective about something like this. Obviously a site that says Vicodin addiction is FATAL is much more accurate than what someone with training, or experience could tell you.

BTW, I am the "abuser" and the guy you were replying to earlier happens to be a pharmacist, althought I doubt his ego would allow him to bring it up. He is much to humble for that.

Anyways, objectivity is needed in any substance abuse case. Some people need treatment and some don't. Some need intensive in-patient treatment, and others just need some type of outpatient support. Some people just decide to stop one day and do.

Everyone is not the same.

If "he" was indeed a pharmacist, and he didn't link or reference any of the commonly available information about Vicodin abuse, he is remiss in his responsibilities for full disclosure.
The training he's alleged to have received will have verified all of what is being discussed here.
I'm not making any of this up. I have no agenda other than to point information, other than, "it's cool" his way.
Vicodin has an abuse potential as well as fatal effects on long term abuse/ overdose.
You have some problem with the facts?

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: rommelrommel

Originally posted by: Spac3d

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
He probably has some dependence, but you cannot say he is addicted. Even if he were, he is 72 and chronic pain. It wont hurt him. Getting too much acetaminophen (tylenol to the masses) could be a problem since this has that in it, but if taken as directed, I think you can chill

Well said.

Agreed.

Disagree
From the NIDA...
What are opioids and what are the potential consequences of their use and abuse?
Opioids, include morphine, codeine, and related drugs such as oxycodone (OxyContin), hydrocodone (Vicodin), and meperidine (Demerol) and are commonly prescribed to relieve pain. Opioids can produce drowsiness and, in higher doses, depress respiration. Opioid drugs also can cause euphoria.

Taken as prescribed, opioids can be used to manage pain effectively without untoward side effects. Chronic use of opioids can result in tolerance, which means that users must take higher doses to achieve the same effects. Long-term use also can lead to physical dependence and addiction; withdrawal can occur when an individual discontinues use of the drugs. Withdrawal symptoms may include restlessness, muscle and bone pain, insomnia, diarrhea, vomiting, cold flashes with goose bumps, and involuntary leg movements. Individuals who are addicted to opioids are more likely to overdose on the drugs, which could be fatal.



From the NIDA....

Another one of these threads? You have no real opinion, but rather search google for what you selectively want to use. Nice.

Quite the contrary, if you will READ what I have referenced to my own situation, you will see that I have a VERY strong opinion. It's just not as irresponsible as you would like to characterize it as.
Why don't you do some reading on your own and come back with something other than a knee -jerk reaction to what are the real facts about the dangers of Vicodin.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: rommelrommel

Originally posted by: Spac3d

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
He probably has some dependence, but you cannot say he is addicted. Even if he were, he is 72 and chronic pain. It wont hurt him. Getting too much acetaminophen (tylenol to the masses) could be a problem since this has that in it, but if taken as directed, I think you can chill

Well said.

Agreed.

Disagree
From the NIDA...
What are opioids and what are the potential consequences of their use and abuse?
Opioids, include morphine, codeine, and related drugs such as oxycodone (OxyContin), hydrocodone (Vicodin), and meperidine (Demerol) and are commonly prescribed to relieve pain. Opioids can produce drowsiness and, in higher doses, depress respiration. Opioid drugs also can cause euphoria.

Taken as prescribed, opioids can be used to manage pain effectively without untoward side effects. Chronic use of opioids can result in tolerance, which means that users must take higher doses to achieve the same effects. Long-term use also can lead to physical dependence and addiction; withdrawal can occur when an individual discontinues use of the drugs. Withdrawal symptoms may include restlessness, muscle and bone pain, insomnia, diarrhea, vomiting, cold flashes with goose bumps, and involuntary leg movements. Individuals who are addicted to opioids are more likely to overdose on the drugs, which could be fatal.



From the NIDA....

Another one of these threads? You have no real opinion, but rather search google for what you selectively want to use. Nice.

Quite the contrary, if you will READ what I have referenced to my own situation, you will see that I have a VERY strong opinion. It's just not as irresponsible as you would like to characterize it as.
Why don't you do some reading on your own and come back with something other than a knee -jerk reaction to what are the real facts about the dangers of Vicodin.

The danger of Vicodin? lol, ok. Vicodin is SO much more terrible than other pharms out there. It is also addictive just like weed! Bad stuff man! LALALALA

I have read pretty much everything you have posted, so your little idea of what I am doing is way off base. Sadly, it is the same old information that is recycled from site to site and group to group, with little pieces of agenda thrown in.

Hey, do what YOU want to do. I am going to do what I want to do, and that is to say that you are WAY over blowing a situation. But hey, that is your prerogative.

 

[NuclearFusi0n]

Christ on a crutch, if he's still taking 4 after 2 years, I doubt he's in it for the opiate high, he just doesn't want to deal with the withdrawal, which is quite a bitch!!

Teach him to cold water extract, because APAP sucks.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I do not believe that site is exactly objective

You don't have to believe anything. It's not your family or Grandfather who is having the issue.
I hope you never have to go through a substance abuse problem with a loved one.
We'll see how objective you are then.

Umm... ok. Lets see here... do I believe some half-assed treatment center or a pharmacist? Do I believe someone who has gone through Substance Abuse or do I believe some random guy that links to treatment centers? Well, do as you want AlienCraft, but that at that amount and the amount of tolerance, I really doubt he even gets an opiate high anymore. Probably just keeps him from going through the withdrawal. But hey, lets not be objective about something like this. Obviously a site that says Vicodin addiction is FATAL is much more accurate than what someone with training, or experience could tell you.

BTW, I am the "abuser" and the guy you were replying to earlier happens to be a pharmacist, althought I doubt his ego would allow him to bring it up. He is much to humble for that.

Anyways, objectivity is needed in any substance abuse case. Some people need treatment and some don't. Some need intensive in-patient treatment, and others just need some type of outpatient support. Some people just decide to stop one day and do.

Everyone is not the same.

If "he" was indeed a pharmacist, and he didn't link or reference any of the commonly available information about Vicodin abuse, he is remiss in his responsibilities for full disclosure.
The training he's alleged to have received will have verified all of what is being discussed here.
I'm not making any of this up. I have no agenda other than to point information, other than, "it's cool" his way.
Vicodin has an abuse potential as well as fatal effects on long term abuse/ overdose.
You have some problem with the facts?

Why would he have to? I didn't realize the Grandfather was one of his clients? Secondly, you say he is remiss, because he didn't link to something YOU WANT to hear.

/me is done with this thread.

 

[WarCon]

My question is this....Is grandpa still in chronic pain? If he is what treatment route is effective and 100% safe.

From reading those "insightful" websites, it seems to me that the biggest problem with these opiate based painkillers is the addiction which leads to ever increasing doses which then threaten to slow and make less effective the respiratory system, or did I misread those sites. You should ask the doctor (and maybe your grandfather since he is an adult old enough to be well your grandfather) though to see if he needs them still and if there is a low stress way of handling the withdrawal from them if he doesn't really need them anymore. You wouldn't want to kill him.

One of my close friends is in serious chronic pain from several deflated disks in his back do to a car accident and he takes oxycontin at near its maximum dose daily. I personally would like to see him on something that affects his mind less (makes him pretty fuzzy sometimes), but I have no idea what that would be right now. They even went in and tried to sever the nerves to stop the pain, but it was pretty ineffective.

I personally suffer from chronic pain (arthritis and an old shoulder injury that should of had surgery), but have yet to go the prescription route as seeing my friend on his "fuzzy" days is quite enough to keep me from going that route.