Since the other sub thread got locked, i'd just like to say we have the best diesel subs in the world these days :D

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collins_class_submarine

This always makes for nice reading too;

In a 2003 joint naval exercise, three Collins-class submarines reportedly "sank" two American Los Angeles class attack submarines and a US aircraft carrier, supporting the claims of defect resolution and combat effectiveness

Now that they finally ironed out the teething issues anyway ;)

 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
34,588
1,749
126
Put your sub together with Canada's tank and maybe an airplane from New Zealand, and the former British Colonies might be ready for action.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
I was gonna do a thread like this just to say "there is no way in hell I'm going to P&N to read more about this".
 

DotheDamnTHing

Platinum Member
Feb 2, 2004
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Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Put your sub together with Canada's tank and maybe an airplane from New Zealand, and the former British Colonies might be ready for action.

:music: God save the Queen...:music:
 

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
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Originally posted by: Acanthus
But uhh, our best subs arent diesel ;)

Thats like saying we have the best go kart when it comes to racing.

Well, they appear to have bested your nukular subs and a carrier in combat situations, so...i can't really see your point actually ;)

EDIT: not to mention that i don't think you actually have any modern diesel combat subs...
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: Acanthus
But uhh, our best subs arent diesel ;)

Thats like saying we have the best go kart when it comes to racing.

And THE best subs arent nuke.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: Acanthus
But uhh, our best subs arent diesel ;)

Thats like saying we have the best go kart when it comes to racing.

Well, they appear to have bested your nukular subs and a carrier in combat situations, so...i can't really see your point actually ;)

EDIT: not to mention that i don't think you actually have any modern diesel combat subs...

And considering wargames usually hamstring someone in one way or another it means very little. Let them play a "real" wargames scenario. No tied hands, no limits, no little playing field. THEN lets see what happens. ;)
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
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ostif.org
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: Acanthus
But uhh, our best subs arent diesel ;)

Thats like saying we have the best go kart when it comes to racing.

Well, they appear to have bested your nukular subs and a carrier in combat situations, so...i can't really see your point actually ;)

EDIT: not to mention that i don't think you actually have any modern diesel combat subs...

All we have to do is dive deeper and go silent, and watch you guys sink yourselves trying to chase ;)
Also, the los angeles class is NOT our flagship class sub.
 

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
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Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: Acanthus
But uhh, our best subs arent diesel ;)

Thats like saying we have the best go kart when it comes to racing.

Well, they appear to have bested your nukular subs and a carrier in combat situations, so...i can't really see your point actually ;)

EDIT: not to mention that i don't think you actually have any modern diesel combat subs...

And considering wargames usually hamstring someone in one way or another it means very little. Let them play a "real" wargames scenario. No tied hands, no limits, no little playing field. THEN lets see what happens. ;)

How exactly would you play a 'real' scenario? Let them shoot each other? :p

You are making baseless assumptions that 'you' were hamstrung because there is no possible way in your mind you could not be the best at everything :laugh:

 

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
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Anyway, to drag the thread back on topic, we do have the best diesel subs going these days, and there is a view in the US military establishment that they erred in letting their diesel program die, diesel subs bring a lot to the ball game :)

 

Heisenberg

Lifer
Dec 21, 2001
10,621
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Originally posted by: dug777
Anyway, to drag the thread back on topic, we do have the best diesel subs going these days, and there is a view in the US military establishment that they erred in letting their diesel program die, diesel subs bring a lot to the ball game :)
The USN is certainly aware of the threat that diesel-electrics pose. They've even leased a Swedish sub that's diesel electric and uses a new kind of propulsion. They're using it in wargames out of San Diego to try to develop defenses.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: Acanthus
But uhh, our best subs arent diesel ;)

Thats like saying we have the best go kart when it comes to racing.

Well, they appear to have bested your nukular subs and a carrier in combat situations, so...i can't really see your point actually ;)

EDIT: not to mention that i don't think you actually have any modern diesel combat subs...

And considering wargames usually hamstring someone in one way or another it means very little. Let them play a "real" wargames scenario. No tied hands, no limits, no little playing field. THEN lets see what happens. ;)

How exactly would you play a 'real' scenario? Let them shoot each other? :p

You are making baseless assumptions that 'you' were hamstrung because there is no possible way in your mind you could not be the best at everything :laugh:

Let the carrier group sail out of Norfolk, let your subs sail off your rickety wooden dock. The games are played in the Atlantic, the goal is having the carrier group get from point A to point B (Say, Japan) without getting "killed".

There was a big fiasco some years ago because we ran a wargame with I believe it was India. Big stink about how are fighters didnt perform very well, they killed us, need to update fighters yada yada.

Wargames generally hamstring someone. Its like sending a world class heavyweight boxer to the local boxing ring and then tying his hands behind his back and having the local guys brag that they beat a world class boxer.

Make it FAIR, then see what happens. Wargames are important, and its not a matter of who wins so much as a matter of fine tuning tactics and procedures for both sides. But its certainly not fair for one side to claim victory if they had an advantage to begin with either.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,803
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Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Yep, that's the best Swedish sub money can buy! ;)
What with the extra pickled herring on top, they're YUMMY! :p

 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,754
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Originally posted by: dug777
Anyway, to drag the thread back on topic, we do have the best diesel subs going these days, and there is a view in the US military establishment that they erred in letting their diesel program die, diesel subs bring a lot to the ball game :)

Could someone explain the advantages of diesel propulsion? Is it that it allows for a smaller/faster sub?
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: preslove
Originally posted by: dug777
Anyway, to drag the thread back on topic, we do have the best diesel subs going these days, and there is a view in the US military establishment that they erred in letting their diesel program die, diesel subs bring a lot to the ball game :)

Could someone explain the advantages of diesel propulsion? Is it that it allows for a smaller/faster sub?

Quieter systems. You can turn off EVERYTHING and just be a hole in the ocean. Nuke subs require a minimum of machinery to be running, namely the coolant pumps.

Each system has its positives and negatives. Nukes can leave harbor, go underwater and stay there for 3 months, 6 months, however long you want. They can travel anywhere on the globe until the crew runs out of food and starves.

Deisel electrics require air to run the diesels to charge the batteries, which means they have to occasionally come up for air. They need diesel fuel to keep the engines running as well, which means your range is limited by your fuel supply. But in electric mode, its the quietest thing in the water aside from a fish.
 

P.O.W.

Senior member
Feb 8, 2000
359
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Originally posted by: preslove
Originally posted by: dug777
Anyway, to drag the thread back on topic, we do have the best diesel subs going these days, and there is a view in the US military establishment that they erred in letting their diesel program die, diesel subs bring a lot to the ball game :)

Could someone explain the advantages of diesel propulsion? Is it that it allows for a smaller/faster sub?

One advantage would be if there were a fuel system leak, the sub would not glow green for 10,000 years.
 

Horus

Platinum Member
Dec 27, 2003
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Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Put your sub together with Canada's tank and maybe an airplane from New Zealand, and the former British Colonies might be ready for action.

You mean, combine them with Canada's Victoria-class subs and world-class ASW Frigates, helicopters and aircraft? Yeah.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: Horus
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Put your sub together with Canada's tank and maybe an airplane from New Zealand, and the former British Colonies might be ready for action.

You mean, combine them with Canada's Victoria-class subs and world-class ASW Frigates, helicopters and aircraft? Yeah.

Yeah, but you can only use the plural form because you guys keep 2 in storage for parts for the 1 thats out in the field.

And come to think of it, if Canadian subs are so world class why did they buy what amounts to junk from the Brits not too long ago? Maybe those rowboats with pull over tarps arent so world class after all :p
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
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diesel subs are very effective and almost undetectable in their zones of operation, which are coastal, not the deep ocean