Simple Straightforward Question Regarding LCD v. CRT

[robertsmcn]

Is there currently on the market a 20-inch LCD monitor that can match the pure gaming performance of, say, a 22-inch NEC/Mistubishi Diamondtron monitor? The LCD must have a native resolution of 1600x1200.

That's all I want to know. I don't care about desk space, eye strain, reading text, value, etc. Pure gaming eye candy bliss. Is there a 20-inch LCD that can deliver it?

 

[Rage187]

2001fp 1600x1200 16ms response time


awesome monitor.


EDIT: All I do is game.

 

[robertsmcn]

Rage187 - I hate you and I love you.

The 2001FP is the reason why I started the thread.

I've been wading through pages and pages on the 2001FP online forums to see if this monitor will fit my gaming needs. While most people are satified with it, the issues deterring me are the usual - ghosting, screen door effect and dead pixels. I would pay the $800 or so for this monitor if I could meet my gaming needs.

 

[dc5]

then get a samsung 20'' lcd.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: robertsmcn
Rage187 - I hate you and I love you.

The 2001FP is the reason why I started the thread.

I've been wading through pages and pages on the 2001FP online forums to see if this monitor will fit my gaming needs. While most people are satified with it, the issues deterring me are the usual - ghosting, screen door effect and dead pixels. I would pay the $800 or so for this monitor if I could meet my gaming needs.

In my opinion, every one of those issues is blown out of proportion.

I have owned 3 LCD's: a 19" Samsung 191T, a 17T Samsung 173V and a 17" 710T; all three had a single dead pixel in various locations:

-the 191T had a dead (black) pixel about 1 inch up and to the right from the bottom left corner;
-the 173V had a dead/stuck (blue) pixel about 1.5 inches up from the bottom right and in about 1/3"; it would only show up on black/dark backgrounds
-the 710T has a dead(stuck) reddish (hard to tell except on an all-black background) pixel about 3 inches to the left and 1.5" up from the bottom left hand corner of the screen.

After a week of use, NONE of these pixels are annoying or even noticeable; unless it's right in the middle of the screen, it's just not an issue. Think about the size of the pixels on a 17" or 20" LCD; they are absoultely tiny given the 1280X1024 and 1600X1200 resolutions, respectively, of the screens.

Ghosting, IMO, is unnoticeable at 16ms or less. My 173V
(25ms) really doesn't ghost noticeably in games (although the 191T did due to bad grey>grey transition times of about 80ms - check out the Xbitlabs reviews). The 710T (12ms) is absolutely gorgeous in games, with no ghosting at all.


I'm not even sure what the 'screen door effect' is of which you speak; suffice to say, from my experience, a 16ms or better LCD on a digital connection is going to be beautiful, and blow out of the water pretty much any competition, even 22" mitsubishi tube monitors.

Edit: and don't forget to turn on ClearType . Best of luck!

 

[BenSkywalker]

Is there currently on the market a 20-inch LCD monitor that can match the pure gaming performance of, say, a 22-inch NEC/Mistubishi Diamondtron monitor?

No. There may be one that is 'good enough' for you, but none of them can match one of the good Diamondtrons in terms of gaming performance.

 

[yhelothar]

I'm about to switch my 21" IBM P275 FD Trinitron monitor to a 2001FP this week, I'll let you know the differences.
I don't play games that often now, which is why I decided to switch, plus after seeing nice contrast on my neighbors Samsung 191T, I think LCDs have acceptable picture quality now.

 

[Rage187]

Out of the 2 2001fp's I've had(have) both had a stuck pixel.

One dead center, which is going back to Dell this week it was green and highly visible.

And the one i'm keeping has a very very small white one that is damn near impossible to see kinda sorta in the left/bottom.


I can only actually see it if the screen if all black and I look for it. Other then that it never shows.

 

[robertsmcn]

All of your responses are interesting.

Jiff, you bring up some good points. Some can see the screen door effect while others can't. Not having any experience with LCD monitors, I don't know what it looks like. Or ghosting, for that matter.

As far as dead pixels, if I'm paying $800 for a panel, I want it to be perfect. I know that this may not be realistic but is seems like a pain to keep returning monitors due to dead pixels. I suppose I can live with one or two dead ones if they were located on inconspicous areas of the screen, but dead center??

I wonder as we start seeing 8ms LCD monitors come out whether the gap will further narrow when compared to CRTs. I've seen some LCD displays at Best Buy and other stores that look like absolute crap. God only knows what gaming must look on those.

The only two I've seen so far that look good are the Samsung 213T, but that was 25ms and $1,000 is a bit steep. Display was gorgeous - who knows how it performs on games?

The other was the Sony 19-inch SDM-HS94P which has 12ms but only 1280x1024 resolution. Also steep at $800 for a 19-inch. Another beautiful display, though.

Sometimes I think I should just spend the $500 for the 22-inch NEC/Mitsubishi FE-2111SB and be done with it.

 

[SourTimes]

Yes it's true there are nice LCDs that are of a high quality. But, the completely straight answer as far as gaming goes, is that the best monitor for gaming is a CRT. More specificly the NEC/Mitsubishi Diamond Pro Series. Yes, there are excellent LCD solutions that will do the job. But the final answer on what the BEST gaming display is, is one of the Diamond Pro Displays in 19" or the 22".

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Is there currently on the market a 20-inch LCD monitor that can match the pure gaming performance of, say, a 22-inch NEC/Mistubishi Diamondtron monitor?

No. There may be one that is 'good enough' for you, but none of them can match one of the good Diamondtrons in terms of gaming performance.

Quoted for truth.

That's all I want to know. I don't care about desk space, eye strain, reading text, value, etc. Pure gaming eye candy bliss. Is there a 20-inch LCD that can deliver it?

Those are the main reasons to get an LCD (the other being power consumption/heat output), so if they don't matter to you, why bother with one? A CRT will be cheaper, offer multiple resolutions at full screen size, and will basically always have a far faster response time and refresh rate--all important gaming considerations.

 

[Slappy00]

dont forget the samsung 900NF

/representin

 

[BenSkywalker]

Sometimes I think I should just spend the $500 for the 22-inch NEC/Mitsubishi FE-2111SB and be done with it.

If you decide to go CRT, consider a step up to the FP2141SB-BK. You can pick it up for under $700 shipped now and you will have the no compromises best gaming monitor you can buy.

2048x1536@85Hz(86Hz actually, but no current gfx card pushes that)

 

[Alptraum]

As an owner of both a Mitsu Diamond Pro 2040u and a Sony G520p (22" and 21" respectively, though same viewable image. And I prefer the 2040u by a slight margin) and a Samsung 192t (19" LCD) I can tell you that there is no qeustion to my eyes as to whats better = The 192t. I game pretty frequently (just got done playing a few hours of AA actually) and the 192t is better in EVERY area but one = resolution. As long as you don't mind being locked into a single res I highly recommend an LCD.

As soon as finances allow I plan on getting a 213t.

For the people that say a DiamondPro is better then an LCD hands down for gaming performance the only spot I can agree on that on that is resolution. Other then that I own both a 22" DiamondPro (and a 21" Sony) and my LCD makes both of them look like ass. And that goes for gaming or anything else.

 

[robertsmcn]

I posted this same thread over at the Sharky forums (always good to get as many opinions as possible) and some people over there alluded to the newer LCD technology on the horizon, particularly OLED and SED technology.

I found a couple of articles online and have pasted them below. I'd like to see what kind of monitors this SED technology produces in the next year. Anyone have any input on these technologies?

For me, personally, I'm not yet desperate to upgrade my monitor. I have a 19-inch Hitachi CRT that is about 2.5 years old. It's a very nice display, used primarily for gaming. But I'm planning a full system build early next year and would like to upgrade my monitor as well to at least a 20-inch viewable screen.

I suppose I could wait a bit longer. However, I did see on ebay some NEC 22-inch Diamontrons for $350. That seems like a steal and very tempting.

 

[ponyo]

It's your eyes. You decide. We don't have your eyes.

 

[robertsmcn]

Originally posted by: Naustica
It's your eyes. You decide. We don't have your eyes.

My eyes are already shot. Last check, my uncorrected vision is roughly 20/500.

For anyone who doesn't know what that means, I have to stand no further than 20 feet away to read the same sign that a person with 20/20 vision can read at 500 feet away. Someone correct me if that's wrong.

 

[jrphoenix]

Some comments below on LCD's:

Originally posted by: robertsmcn

All of your responses are interesting.

Jiff, you bring up some good points. Some can see the screen door effect while others can't. Not having any experience with LCD monitors, I don't know what it looks like. Or ghosting, for that matter.

I have a Samsung 213T as my gaming / primary monitor. Ghosting looks like a slight blur or extreme blur (smearing of picture). Imagine an animated mouse: (go to mouse properties in control panel, select pointer options, turn on "display pointer trails") Except the images will be blurred togeher somewhat.

As far as dead pixels, if I'm paying $800 for a panel, I want it to be perfect. I know that this may not be realistic but is seems like a pain to keep returning monitors due to dead pixels. I suppose I can live with one or two dead ones if they were located on inconspicous areas of the screen, but dead center??.

I can't blame you on this one... not all monitors have dead pixels. Some stores (only some, try refusing to buy there unless they let you) may let you hook up the monitor before buying. My Samsung had 0 dead pixels.

I wonder as we start seeing 8ms LCD monitors come out whether the gap will further narrow when compared to CRTs. I've seen some LCD displays at Best Buy and other stores that look like absolute crap. God only knows what gaming must look on those.

16 ms is the rate that I have heard reviewers say that the human eye won't see ghosting... too fast for your brain to decipher. Don't judge a panel by best buy Look at the system they have all 30 monitors hooked to... usually an old piece of junk with intergrated video running at 1024 X 768 (on a native 1600 x 1200 LCD)..... Ughhh... The 213T I bought from best buy didn't look that great until I hooked it up at home!

The only two I've seen so far that look good are the Samsung 213T, but that was 25ms and $1,000 is a bit steep. Display was gorgeous - who knows how it performs on games?

The 213T is steep! This monitor is definately worth it! Check out Anand's review of the Samsung & the Dell sometime. One suggestion... make sure you only hook up these monitors to a DVI connector to do them justice! I have an article on the gaming performance at home (I'll post the link if I remember)... Here is Anand's review: AnandTech

My review.... in Battlefield 1942 I could see a little ghosting if I tried to focus on it. After a minute or two of gaming... or after months, like me... you can not see ghosting unless you try to focus on it (you adjust). In the desert combat mod of Battlefield I could see ghosting if I was in a tank and moved my turret back and forth really fast (a slight blur).... Nothing to keep you from sticky with the big buly CRT power hogs.

Sometimes I think I should just spend the $500 for the 22-inch NEC/Mitsubishi FE-2111SB and be done with it.

A good monitor... but heavy, hot, power hungry, and not good if you are married or have a girlfriend

 

[robertsmcn]

Sometimes I think I should just spend the $500 for the 22-inch NEC/Mitsubishi FE-2111SB and be done with it.

A good monitor... but heavy, hot, power hungry, and not good if you are married or have a girlfriend
[/quote]

Yeah, that's always a concern - the 19-inch Hitachi I'm currently using is a beast in and of itself. I cringe at the thought of my wife's reaction when Fedex shows up at the door with a handtruck and the behemoth of a box that a 22-inch CRT comes in.

Thanks for the input. I'd appreciate it if you could dig out that article on gaming performance and LCDs.

 

[jrphoenix]

Did you read Anand's review of the Samsung & Dell I linked to above? He has some gaming feedback in there .... I'll get the other article in about 5 hours from now!

 

[ponyo]

22" CRT is like only 70-80 pounds. I'm sure most of you have 32"+ TVs. These weigh more than 200+ pounds. How often you move your TV or your CRT?

If you have trouble moving 70-80 pound CRT, maybe you should work out more and compute less.

 

[robertsmcn]

Originally posted by: jrphoenix
Did you read Anand's review of the Samsung & Dell I linked to above? He has some gaming feedback in there .... I'll get the other article in about 5 hours from now!

Yes I've read them. I also read about 50 pages of the Dell 2001FP user forums. Generally, owners are very pleased with this monitor, but for many, it seems like they have to go through several with dead pixels before they get one that's acceptable, and even then they may have a few dead ones. I don't want to have to box up monitor after monitor and playing mailman with Dell. I realize this is the case since you can basically only buy this monitor directly through Dell and not at some of the big retail stores.

 

[ponyo]

How many pixels are in 1600x1200? Do you think you're going to notice one or two dead pixels away from the center?

Do you notice the imperfect convergence and geometry on your CRT?

 

[Rage187]

As I stated, unless my screen is completely black, and I am staring at the monitor looking for it, I cant see it.

 

[robertsmcn]

Originally posted by: Naustica
How many pixels are in 1600x1200? Do you think you're going to notice one or two dead pixels away from the center?

Honestly? I don't know. I've never owned an LCD or have seen a dead pixel before so I'm not sure what to look for but I can imagine.