Simple plumbing question: connecting a new faucet

[Jeff7]

I just got a new faucet to replace one that was about 30 years old. New faucet went in fine. Then came the supply hoses. They split open from the moving around required to get them off the old connections. Bought new ones. Connected everything. It all seemed fine.

Last night, one hose came out, and water blasted all over the place. All the nuts were still securely attached. They were not leaking.

Pic of what I'm working with.

The little washer there is restrained by the nut, which keeps the washer from getting out of the supply pipe, pictured behind. The hose fits through both the washer and the nut. However, the washer and nut are not really secured to the hose in any fashion, so the hose is, and was, free to just come sliding right out, giving the water a clear path to just blast out everywhere.

Question is, what is to be done about this? It's the same kind of connection that was in there before, same size hoses, same everything. But it just doesn't work.

 

[iamwiz82]

You are saying that the washer isn't attached? That should be molded into the rubber tube.

I assume we are looking at the end of the line that comes out of the faucet, correct?

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
You are saying that the washer isn't attached? That should be molded into the rubber tube.

I assume we are looking at the end of the line that comes out of the faucet, correct?

This is the end that goes into the supply. The end that goes into the faucet does have a wide molded end.

What is pictured is the loose end from the hot water hose, and behind it, the still-connected-though-turned-off cold water hose.

 

[VanTheMan]

That washer should be part of the tube. Otherwise, the nut can't seal the connection.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: VanTheMan
That washer should be part of the tube. Otherwise, the nut can't seal the connection.

This is what I was saying when I questioned why the washer wasn't molded in.

The nut is spun onto the threaded part of the valve and the washer keeps it from leaking.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: VanTheMan
That washer should be part of the tube. Otherwise, the nut can't seal the connection.

It somehow managed to do so on the old hose. That's what I really don't get - why did it work on that thing, but not this? It was the same slip-fit deal there too.

 

[Good4Me]

Compression Fitting

 

[DrPizza]

Best guess from me: you over-tightened it.

 

[drnickriviera]

No that washer shouldn't be molded in. It's a compression sleeve. What I usually see with those polybutylene fittings is a metal washer that slides on before the sleeve and does not allow the pipe to pop out like that. Gg to the hardware store and look in the section with the polybutylene fittings. They will probably have a pack with the nut, metal washer and plastic washer. If they don't have that, the only other thing you could try is to use a brass compression sleeve. Really not supposed to use them with plastic pipe as they tend to cut into the pipe, but if nothing else works.


edit. Like this
http://www.acehardware.com/product/inde...t=0&parentPage=family&searchId=1260873

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Best guess from me: you over-tightened it.

Define "overtighten."
It's a subjective word. My "overtight" is sometimes loose enough for someone to get off with their hands.

In this case, I did use a pliers. However, I was able to remove the nut with just my fingers.

So how tight exactly is "over-tightening"?

 

[Joemonkey]

You can not remove a compression ring from tubing once it has been used. If you can't get a leakproof connection, the tubing behind the ring will have to be cut, and a new ring installed. Though the compression nuts can often be reused, I would recommend against it because the old nut may be slightly deformed and lessen the quality of the new connection.

 

[drnickriviera]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Best guess from me: you over-tightened it.

Define "overtighten."
It's a subjective word. My "overtight" is sometimes loose enough for someone to get off with their hands.

In this case, I did use a pliers. However, I was able to remove the nut with just my fingers.

So how tight exactly is "over-tightening"?

Woa, that is way too loose. You're trying to crush that sleeve down tight enough to hold the pipe in place. Problem is everything is plastic. Too tight and ... crack. Go get a crescent wrench and tighten it more.

 

[Jeff7]

I did use a crescent wrench to tighten it. But I was also conscious of everything being plastic junk, so I didn't want to break anything.


So, next question: is there a different kind of supply hose I can use? Something that isn't cheap sh!t perhaps? Something like this perhaps? With screw-on things permanently attached to each end.

 

[drnickriviera]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
I did use a crescent wrench to tighten it. But I was also conscious of everything being plastic junk, so I didn't want to break anything.


So, next question: is there a different kind of supply hose I can use? Something that isn't cheap sh!t perhaps? Something like this perhaps? With screw-on things permanently attached to each end.

I've never seen braided lines made for those polyb fittings. I hate those fittings. Only thing you could do is cut the pipe back in the wall, install an adapter and use a normal shutff valve. Then you could use that stainless braided line.

Humm, now that I think about it, the thread on that valve may be 1/2" pipe thread. If it is, then you may be able to use one of those lines. Take that nut to the hardware store and see if you can find out what the thread is. I'll see if I have one of those valves in my shop.

 

[Jeff7]

Humm, now that I think about it, the thread on that valve may be 1/2" pipe thread. If it is, then you may be able to use one of those lines. Take that nut to the hardware store and see if you can find out what the thread is. I'll see if I have one of those valves in my shop.

That's what will probably be done. I'm going in town again tomorrow (not worth the 20 mile round trip just for this), so I'll just bring the nut along. "I have a supply valve and a faucet connector that fit this nut. I want two supply hoses with permanent fittings on both ends.

The previous owner who installed the sink did a cheap job on it - everything is plastic. The hoses, the valve, the nuts......and I really didn't know any better. I just went the the hardware store and said "This is old, and it split open. I need new ones." So the salesman obliged, and got me some new ones. I never thought to ask, "Hey, are these just an All-American Quick&Cheap© solution? If so, is there a real solution available?"

 

[dullard]

That is a standard compression fitting as mentioned above. As you tighten the nut, the nut squeezes the "washer"* into the tubing - forming a permanent seal. It isn't molded on there initially becuase the manufacturer has no way of knowing how much tubing you need after the "washer".

Compression fittings are very finicky when it comes to how much to tighten them. The rule is to do it finger tight (as tight as possible with your fingers). And then get a wrench and turn it 1/4 turn more (no more and no less). Since a wrench finished the job, you should not be able to loosen it by your fingers alone if attached properly. Note: sometimes when working with those nuts, they may get stuck and appear finger tight and you'll need a wrench to get past that point, then you can continue finger tightening it.

But I'd personally avoid plastic parts like that. They are prone to leaking or eventually bursting. Instead, go for the no-burst flexible lines (with metal wire brading around it and metal connections). They cost a couple dollars more but it is well worth it.


* I put "washer" in quotes because techincally most people called them gasket rings or ferrules.

 

[funboy6942]

If thoes are the hoses that came with the new faucet I would see about replacing them with the hose type adn pitching them pos's. They are already giving you trouble and will continue to do so. I had them on my nw sink I had in my trailer and were always comming lose and leaking. Spend the extra $10 and get hoses so you can have years of not having to cuss or ruined floors because of water damage.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Humm, now that I think about it, the thread on that valve may be 1/2" pipe thread. If it is, then you may be able to use one of those lines. Take that nut to the hardware store and see if you can find out what the thread is. I'll see if I have one of those valves in my shop.

That's what will probably be done. I'm going in town again tomorrow (not worth the 20 mile round trip just for this), so I'll just bring the nut along. "I have a supply valve and a faucet connector that fit this nut. I want two supply hoses with permanent fittings on both ends.

The previous owner who installed the sink did a cheap job on it - everything is plastic. The hoses, the valve, the nuts......and I really didn't know any better. I just went the the hardware store and said "This is old, and it split open. I need new ones." So the salesman obliged, and got me some new ones. I never thought to ask, "Hey, are these just an All-American Quick&Cheap© solution? If so, is there a real solution available?"

How far back is it plastic? I have next to no experience with plastic pipes other than the same rubber lines as in your pic that came with new faucets.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82


How far back is it plastic? I have next to no experience with plastic pipes other than the same rubber lines as in your pic that came with new faucets.

What do you mean, "how far back"?

Here's the setup:
A copper pipe comes out of the wall. It has some little fitting on the end, onto which the plastic supply valve is attached. Then there's a plastic supply hose, attached with plastic nuts, up to the faucet. That's where the metal begins - the screw-fittings on the faucet are metal.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: iamwiz82


How far back is it plastic? I have next to no experience with plastic pipes other than the same rubber lines as in your pic that came with new faucets.

What do you mean, "how far back"?

Here's the setup:
A copper pipe comes out of the wall. It has some little fitting on the end, onto which the plastic supply valve is attached. Then there's a plastic supply hose, attached with plastic nuts, up to the faucet. That's where the metal begins - the screw-fittings on the faucet are metal.

If you can see the copper I'd get rid of that valve and put a better one on there too. I thought you were going to say that it was plastic all the way into the wall/floor. I just put new valves on my copper pipes and it was my first time with soldering any type of plumbing and it came out great.

 

[drnickriviera]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: iamwiz82


How far back is it plastic? I have next to no experience with plastic pipes other than the same rubber lines as in your pic that came with new faucets.

What do you mean, "how far back"?

Here's the setup:
A copper pipe comes out of the wall. It has some little fitting on the end, onto which the plastic supply valve is attached. Then there's a plastic supply hose, attached with plastic nuts, up to the faucet. That's where the metal begins - the screw-fittings on the faucet are metal.

Oh, I thought you have poly all through the house. Why in the heck did the DPO put that valve on there?

I'd take that plastic valve off and
a. solder a 1/2" male adapter to the coper pipe
b. if you are uncomfortable soldering, buy a 5/8" OD compression to 1/2" male pipe thread adapter.

then buy a 1/2" pipe to 3/8" compression 90 degree shut off valve. I'd recommend buying the 1/4" ball valve type, not the old washer style.

then buy the supply line. 3/8" compression to 1/2" pipe in whatever length you need.

Should take 30-45 min and it will be done the right way.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

If you can see the copper I'd get rid of that valve and put a better one on there too. I thought you were going to say that it was plastic all the way into the wall/floor. I just put new valves on my copper pipes and it was my first time with soldering any type of plumbing and it came out great.

Anything difficult about it? I've done soldering with electronics, but never with a pipe. I do have a propane torch that was meant for plumbing repairs, so I figure that'd do the job.

I assume that you just turn off the water mains, run the faucet to get rid of any pressure, and you're ok to remove the valve? Or is there more to it than that?


I suppose I could always buy some copper pipe fittings to practice my soldering technique on. It's not like they're excessively expensive.

 

[xgsound]

First I suggest you take apart the working connection on the other line to see if the parts are properly oriented and all there. If they're different, make the leaking one match the good one. It's been awhile since I worked with a plastic line, but the white nylon washer looks backwards and I thought there should be a large black cone shaped washer in the nut.

If you find no problem there, get a new flexible supply line (measure the length) with fixed ends that match your faucet and valve at any hardware store. You should get change from $10 for a burstproof line.


Jim

 

[KMurphy]

I've never seen a plastic compression fitting like that. Go to HD or Lowe's and get some stainless braided hose and brass compression rings with nuts.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: xgsound
First I suggest you take apart the working connection on the other line to see if the parts are properly oriented and all there. If they're different, make the leaking one match the good one. It's been awhile since I worked with a plastic line, but the white nylon washer looks backwards and I thought there should be a large black cone shaped washer in the nut.

If you find no problem there, get a new flexible supply line (measure the length) with fixed ends that match your faucet and valve at any hardware store. You should get change from $10 for a burstproof line.


Jim

Neither of them are working. The other one only remained in place because its hose was so short and inflexible. Once I disconnected it from the faucet, a quick tug was all it took to remove the hose from the supply connection. DrNick's suggestion sounds best - like a real solution instead of the quick'n'stupid solution that's already in place.