Simple carpentry framing questions

[Muse]

I'm progressing on my garage renovation project. Roof repairs done by roofing company, earlier in year. The back and west walls are cinder blocks in good shape. The east wall is wooden and was in the worst imaginable shape. I removed the rotted wooden siding and termite infested and rotted framing and sill planks. I installed new PT sill plates.

I have 3 temporary vertical beams in place to insure that the roof is supported while I'm reframing the wall. I plan to reframe, attach 7/16" OSB 4x8' planks to the framing and apply 8.25" Hardie planks to the OSB, put on side trim pieces, caulk and paint.

That wall doesn't have to be very supportive, it's just a detached garage. I'm wondering if I can get by with 24" OC framing on that wall (that's the minimum recommended for Hardie planks) or if it would be wiser to go with 20" or even 16" OC vertical studs (obviously, the OSB will add strength). Also, how important is it to use straight and dry Douglas Fir (or even pine) for that framing? When I picked out the 2x4s I have I didn't check for straightness, but I'm wiser now. Could return what I have now and get something else.

 

[Greenman]

24" OC framing tends to be wavy as you sight down the wall, so I always use 16" OC framing. Beyond that, unless there is a huge roof load, 24" OC will work. Be sure to use galvanized nails when attaching to the bottom plate, PT material eats steel at an alarming rate. OSB should be be nailed 6" OC on the edges 8 or 10 in the field. For the Hardiplank, buy yourself a pair of Gecko Gauges, makes it easy for 1 man to install siding. You might also want to pick up some 5/16" thick redwood lath for the edge of the bottom board, it makes it flare out like the boards above it. They also make metal outside corners for hardiplank if you don't want to use trim.

 

[Muse]

24" OC framing tends to be wavy as you sight down the wall, so I always use 16" OC framing. Beyond that, unless there is a huge roof load, 24" OC will work. Be sure to use galvanized nails when attaching to the bottom plate, PT material eats steel at an alarming rate. OSB should be be nailed 6" OC on the edges 8 or 10 in the field. For the Hardiplank, buy yourself a pair of Gecko Gauges, makes it easy for 1 man to install siding. You might also want to pick up some 5/16" thick redwood lath for the edge of the bottom board, it makes it flare out like the boards above it. They also make metal outside corners for hardiplank if you don't want to use trim.

I already nailed in 2 vertical 2x4 framing members to the PT sill with regular nails. Can I get away with adding some galvanized toe nails in addition, or is there a good reason to remove or at least cut the regular steel nails?

Thanks for the tips on OSB nailing, I had no idea.

I already bought those Gecko Guages, the plastic ones, not the more expensive metal ones. The garage is so lopsided it's not feasible to use guages that don't allow some fudging with parallel and overlap amounts. Nothing is level or plumb although sometimes not too far off plumb in places.

I have some ~5/16" starter strips for the bottom course of Hardie Planks, just stuff I had around. I have it set aside, I bought most of the materials awhile ago now.

I bought 1x4 trim pieces already, figure to leave 1/8-1/4" gap on the edges and caulk, per the Hardie instructions.

I might go for closer spacing on the framing members, I've been a little hung up on it. I've never done any framing before.

Another thing I bought that I think is probably a really good idea is Protecto Wrap, a 6" x 50' roll. Like you say, the PT is supposed to be hell on steel. Well, I have some Z flashing I plan to install over the OSB at the sill plates and figure I'll put the wrap between them. Z flashing and PT don't mix, they say. I bought some coated aluminum flashing to put in rectangles behind the plank butt joints over the moisture barrier, of which I also bought a roll.

 

[Greenman]

You can toe nail with galves and leave the box nails in place, they'll just rust off. The wrap should protect the flashing from the PT.
It's pretty surprising how fast that stuff eats steel, in conditions where there is constant moisture it's even faster. I had to pull some 5/8" galvanized steel bolts out of a piece of 6x6 PT that had only been in place for around a year. The garden sprinklers had been spraying the area every day, I was astounded at the condition of the bolts, they were around 25% corroded. That information set off a survey of over 400 posts to make sure they weren't getting soaked every day. We may end up replacing around 3200 galvanized bolts with stainless steel.

 

[Muse]

When I stocked up for this project I bought two biggish boxes of nails:

5lb of Simpson Strong-Tie 8d Decking Nails -- 0.120 x 2 1/2" Stainless Steel. (I figured to use these to fasten the Hardie planks through the sheathing at the studs -- they are well ribbed after the top 3/4" or so, this is earthquake country)

5lb of Grip Rite electro-galvanized 1 3/4" smooth shank roofing nails (they are lightly ribbed near the top and have big heads). I figured to use these to secure the OSB to the studs.

I'm thinking now I can maybe use these for toe nailing studs to the PT, maybe in addition to longer galvanized nails. I have a box of 3" galvanized nails.

I tried toe nailing one stud to the PT using methods I saw in videos. They actually used the toes of their boots to hold the studs in position while nailing. I always thought that toe nailing just referred to angling nails in, not actually using the toe of your boot! I tried that and wasn't getting accurate placement so I started predrilling holes in the studs and even into the PT. That worked out better. I only did one stud so far. Another stud is at the very end and I actually didn't secure that to the PT, only to the 4x4 adjacent to it. I'm confident it's solidly in place without bothering to nail directly to the PT.

I have some old wood around that's been here for years. Some is painted on all surfaces, wonder if it's really dry. Maybe any moisture in there would have found its way out, don't know. Anyway, I think I'm going to bring all my green lumber back, maybe buy some KD (I bought some 2x4 that's labeled "KD" and figure that means it's kiln dried!). I'm thinking maybe 20" OC and I'm going to try to avoid bowed 2x4s. I even thought of using my belt sander to try to reduce the bowing in some pieces....

HD online says they stock 8 foot 2x4 kiln dried white pine for $3.20. It's not Douglas Fir but may be sufficient for this wall that isn't really load bearing.

 

[Greenman]

The green lumber you have is fine. All of it, KD and green will be at 19% moisture soon enough. Frame at 16 or 24 OC, otherwise you'll end up with a lot more waste from the OSB and hardiplank.

 

[Muse]

The green lumber you have is fine. All of it, KD and green will be at 19% moisture soon enough. Frame at 16 or 24 OC, otherwise you'll end up with a lot more waste from the OSB and hardiplank.

Hadn't thought of/realized that. Yeah.

I figure if I go to 16" OC I will need 6 additional studs. A concern I have is the bow in the stud material I have, a lot of it has considerable bow. That has to put stress on the planking, even the OSB may not really conform to the bow. I could try to reduce bow with my belt sander, probably the smarter approach is to return the bowed stock and buy stock that looks pretty straight sighting down the length, something I wasn't knowledgeable enough to do when I bought it at HD. I may buy some of their KD 8' 2x4 white pine instead. Sighting down the length for bow, and avoiding warp too, while I'm at it.

 

[Muse]

I almost finished the framing today, have 3 more vertical studs to install tomorrow.

I'm wondering if I should hammer a single horizontal 2x4 between each stud pair around 1/2 way up prior to hammering on the 4x8' OSB sheets. That would require installing 12 of these between the 13 total vertical studs. I have the lumber, is it a good idea?

 

[Greenman]

I almost finished the framing today, have 3 more vertical studs to install tomorrow.

I'm wondering if I should hammer a single horizontal 2x4 between each stud pair around 1/2 way up prior to hammering on the 4x8' OSB sheets. That would require installing 12 of these between the 13 total vertical studs. I have the lumber, is it a good idea?

It's called blocking.
You can get the studs straight on the panel edged by pushing them around as you nail the OSB. For the mid studs, just push them wherever they need to go and put a nail next to them to hold them while you nail through the OSB. Or you could block the studs, it just takes a bit more time. Measure the opening at the top or bottom plate. While that seems obvious, a lot of people don't think about it and the framing ends up crooked as a hounds hind leg.
If the studs are 16" OC most of your blocks should be 14 7/16".

 

[Muse]

Finished installing the vertical studs today. Don't know if I'll bother with the blocking. Reason is I returned all the crooked lumber I'd bought when I was stupid enough to only care about good looking, unchecked lumber and never checked for straightness. I'm wiser now. When I returned the crooked stuff 2 days ago, some bought back in June, I bought five 8' 2x4 KD fir that was straight... very little bow or warp.

I doubt I'll have to nudge things much if at all when nailing the OSB, but if I do, your shortcuts should help.

I'm proud of my framing. I think I got it all in proper plumb in one plane and as close to plumb as I could in the other vertical perpendicular plane. The damn garage is a conundrum. Fixing it is a real challenge because of how whack it is. How it got that way I don't know. I guess it's old, probably over 50 years.

Anyway, I like what I've done so far. The part that worries me is how I'm going to deal with the Hardie planking. Thing is, on the left side of the wall it's higher than on the right side. So, I think I have to angle the planking so the planks' exposure is more on the left side than the right. That's one reason I got the Gecko Gauges. They are supposed to be adjustable;

I made some mistakes installing the vertical studs. I don't know how I did it, but two of them were plumb and all but they weren't in the right place. I seem to have spaced out or something. I removed two of them, one yesterday, one today and reinstalled where I think they should be. The one today was more than 1/2" off. That one was a critical one because it receives the edges of adjacent sheathing boards, so I figured I wanted it close to perfectly placed.

Looking down the line of studs they appear to the naked eye to be as close to perfectly aligned as possible given what the garage is.

I got a couple of splinters that drew blood. Got them out. I'm not used to working in wood a lot these days. You don't handle lumber casually! I spotted another sliver, but it's very superficial, I'll get it out later.

I wrapped it up for today. Took me a lot longer to get the final 3 studs in there, it was getting real hot. It was around 95F when I finished up today! Next up is to install the OSB. The first sheet is simple, the bottom left. But after that it gets harder. For one thing, I have to cut notches out of the rest of the sheets except for maybe the bottom right one.

This is the first time I've used the 24oz framing hammer I bought a few years ago at Harbor Freight. I managed to install the studs without hurting my hands except for a couple of blows which only hurt for a minute. I developed what I think is a cool technique. I grabbed a big bolt in a large vice grip and placed one end of the bolt against each of the nails when 1/2 driven in and finished driving it by hammering on the other end of the bolt. That protected my other hand and made it a ton easier to not have mishits on the nail ends.

 

[Greenman]

Don't angle the hardiplank unless there is no other option, it will look like a child did it. Start at the lowest point, and trim off the bottom where it steps up. Your lines need to be straight all the way across the wall. If the wall is actually taller at one end, you can cheat each row up or down a little and it's unnoticeable, as long as the lines are straight.
You shouldn't be using a 24oz hammer, you're doing as much damage to your elbow as you are to the nail. 20oz is plenty. I use a 16oz titanium hammer for framing, though at $110, that's out of the range of sane for a DIY fellow. Always pay attention to what your doing to your body while building. The damage accumulates over the years. Knees and back seem to take the most damage, but I know a few old guys with bad elbows from swinging a hammer that's far heavy.

I'm guessing you live in the bay area or close to it? It was hotter than a popcorn fart out there today.

 

[Muse]

I am not at all sure how I'm going to manage the Hardie plank installation. Next up is the OSB. I have a decision to make before I do even that. The wall is weird not just in that it's taller on the left than the right. On the right 1/2 or so the foundation is 2 courses (one on top of the other) of cinder blocks, topped by toppers. I had to do some of that myself because it wasn't complete... they'd done something funky, evidently tore out around 4-5 feet of that to make room for a door. That door was long gone when I moved in. The wall was the biggest mess you could imagine, they'd just hammered on old plywood, doors they'd gotten somewhere, planks, it was an unfinished hodgepodge. First thing I had to do after the roofers were done was to tear all that off.

After tearing off that old crud, it was obvious that all the framing under it including the sill plates had to be removed. That was something I didn't know until I tore off what passed for siding! I discovered the missing cinder blocks on the right side and instead of filling the gap with concrete like the roofer suggested, I measured and discovered that a few cinder blocks and toppers would just exactly fit in the empty space, so I did that.

The left portion of the foundation for that wall isn't cinder blocks, it's concrete, about 4 inches high. I replaced the sill plates that were on that and installed sill plates also on the cinder block toppers on the right side. All PT lumber for sill plates.

In the middle there's a discrepancy in that the concrete on the left is 4 inches high but the cinder blocks plus toppers are around 21 inches high. I'm thinking of running an additional vertical stud of PT 2x4 (I have a piece that fits already) against the side of the cinder blocking where it meets the 4 inch tall concrete on the left and all the way up to the 4x6 on top to which all the other vertical studs are toe nailed.

Anyway, whatever I do there, there's the question of how the planking should be installed.

Now, what you say about trimming off the bottom of the planks concerns me. That would be parallel to the run of the planks, not just a score and snap, which is what I plan to do to shorten the planks (presumably I'll stagger the ends). I don't have anything to do that and I don't want to spray cement dust all over my back yard! I see tons of posts by people talking about how nasty that dust is, that it's toxic, even carcinogenic.

Yeah, my elbows are problematic already. I do have a lighter hammer I could use, but I guess there's little more framing to do. However, I could use the lighter hammer to install the OSB and the planks.

Just weighed both hammers. The "24oz" framing hammer is 31oz including the handle. Evidently the 24oz just refers to the head. The other hammer is 27.5oz including the handle, not a lot lighter. It's a basic claw hammer. Looks to have a fiberglass handle with rubberized grip. The framing hammer has a wooden handle with what looks like a lacquer finish.

Yeah, bay area, Berkeley. It was 105 Friday, yesterday (Saturday), my thermometer said 104. Today's a nice 80 or so so far. Shouldn't break 90. San Francisco set an all time high Friday of 106F, it was the headline on the front section of Saturday's San Francisco Chronicle!

 

[Muse]

I just took some measurements. I think if I overlap the first two courses of Hardie planks on the left by a bit more than 1" extra (beyond the minimum 1.25" overlap), the next course on the left will match up with the first course on the right. That may be the way to go. Another funky thing, though, is the fact that the sill plating on the right (which is in two portions), don't meet in a straight line in terms of being horizontal. There's a slight angle. So, the planking may not wind up straight across as you describe but have that slight angle. Don't know how I'll accomplish that. I may have to give up on the recommended staggering and have a stacked set of plank endings at the point where the angling takes place. That doesn't look great and it's a no no for insuring against water infiltration issues, but I do have underlayment and flashing and this is a moderate rainfall area anyway (~22"/year on average).

 

[Greenman]

Score and snap doesn't work for beans. A sheer will do the job a lot better. If you have to rip a piece, which is almost inevitable, it's a life saver.

https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-D2860...504474196&sr=8-1&keywords=fiber+cement+shears

Harbor Fright might have one as well.

 

[Muse]

I'm hoping to get by with cross cut, no ripping of the planks. Gonna check my town's lending library, maybe they have a shears. It's possible. I asked them before I bought the Gecko Gauges and they didn't have those, but who knows, maybe they have shears. Looks like Harbor Freight doesn't carry anything like it.

I'm gonna try score and snap. Hardie recommends it. Online searches show a lot of folks do really well with it. For instance, this totally professional explanation from a company owner says that one of his crews used mostly S&S and was faster than most of his other crews, and those crews had all the equipment available, shears, fancy stuff, etc. They did a ton of fiber cement siding work during one period.

There's a ton of info there on lots of methods of cutting cement siding. Part of the explanation from that company owner states:

"Score and snap. As we approached the end of 16 solid weeks of siding, an interesting anomaly developed. Every imaginable siding cutting tool was available on site, yet one of my most productive teams cut most of their siding by scribing the back of the board with a utility knife and snapping it over a 2x4. Cut this way, siding breaks cleanly as long as you scribe it uniformly."

I'm seeing a lot of reviews/comments from people saying they love the shears, that they're great. But I'm installing just 23-24 twelve foot Hardie Planks and figure spending over $200 for shears isn't smart. I ordered a set of speed squares and a carbide cutting knife. In this video a guy shows how he scores and snaps Hardie planks using a speed square and a utility knife. He seems really good at it. I figured a modest investment in a carbide cutting knife is an OK idea. I can probably use it for plexiglass and I know for sure I'll love the speed squares. All I have now is a couple of those adjustable squares that never seem to work and an aluminum framing square. That works OK, but a speed square would be better. I could have used it to mark my studs for cutting, for instance. If the carbide knife doesn't do well, I'll use a utility knife like in the video. I have several and new blades.

 

[Greenman]

If you get into a bind and really need a shear, let me know. I may be able to lend you mine as I have a project in Piedmont. It would all depend on finding a time and place to meet.

 

[Muse]

If you get into a bind and really need a shear, let me know. I may be able to lend you mine as I have a project in Piedmont. It would all depend on finding a time and place to meet.

Hey, thanks. I'll keep that in mind.