Silly judge blocks California high school exit exam

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: zendari
If people want to come into our country, they learn our language. But of course this is the feelgood type of liberals in Cali we are talking about.

Then get congress to make English the official language and then you'll actually have an argument on what 'Our Language' actually is. Because it's pretty clear that 'MY' language differs from 'YOUR' language. There is no 'OUR' language.

It's that kind of presumptive and disrespectful arrogance that paints a bad picture of all immigrants, including us... the legal ones.

Who says I'm an immigrant? I just don't buy arguments that claim "me my mine".

Actually... i take back what I just deleted. If the person doesn't want to learn english and can still be successful, why not? If they fail in life because of it... so be it?

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
This is a result of mass immigration. Our tests are made for Americans, who speak English in everyday life. Obviously we must adapt to Mexico's standards in order to suit their national citizens.

This is really not the result of massive immigration. If you look at the Russian immigration, for example (and there are about 800'000-1'000'000 people who came from the former USSR in New York City... mostly of Jewish descent, but about 30-40% of all others), has shown that a large wave of immigration can not only accept the language and culture of the host country, but also succeed far beyond what anti-immigration advocates are comfortable with (average income is $45'000, which is $9000 higher than the overall NYC average).

Not a result of tens of millions of people crossing our border? Well the girl didn?t fail English because she spoke it at home, or in her community. So what IS at fault if not the cause of the effect?

You cite another scenario as if it somehow applies to THIS? HOW?! It has nothing to do with today?s problem.

1: Melting a million people into America is a far less problem than twenty million people.

How many from the former USSR spoke English? How many moved here legally? When we have entire towns that don?t speak English in the USA yet we test them on English, that?s where we have a problem.

2: The Mexican population today takes jobs for less pay.

Their poverty is not some magical made up figure. How can you deny Mexico has poverty by trying to tell me those from the former USSR were richer than the average New Yorker?!

We are not dealing with the USSR here, you can stop with telling me how well a million legal immigrants did well in this country. That couldn?t be further from the problem we face today. We have a Mexican population that?s growing larger than our state populations and many among them take jobs under minimum wage, and do not speak English.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
This is a result of mass immigration. Our tests are made for Americans, who speak English in everyday life. Obviously we must adapt to Mexico's standards in order to suit their national citizens.

This is really not the result of massive immigration. If you look at the Russian immigration, for example (and there are about 800'000-1'000'000 people who came from the former USSR in New York City... mostly of Jewish descent, but about 30-40% of all others), has shown that a large wave of immigration can not only accept the language and culture of the host country, but also succeed far beyond what anti-immigration advocates are comfortable with (average income is $45'000, which is $9000 higher than the overall NYC average).

Not a result of tens of millions of people crossing our border? Well the girl didn?t fail English because she spoke it at home, or in her community. So what IS at fault if not the cause of the effect?

You cite another scenario as if it somehow applies to THIS? HOW?! It has nothing to do with today?s problem.

1: Melting a million people into America is a far less problem than twenty million people.

How many from the former USSR spoke English? How many moved here legally? When we have entire towns that don?t speak English in the USA yet we test them on English, that?s where we have a problem.

2: The Mexican population today takes jobs for less pay.

Their poverty is not some magical made up figure. How can you deny Mexico has poverty by trying to tell me those from the former USSR were richer than the average New Yorker?!

We are not dealing with the USSR here, you can stop with telling me how well a million legal immigrants did well in this country. That couldn?t be further from the problem we face today. We have a Mexican population that?s growing larger than our state populations and many among them take jobs under minimum wage, and do not speak English.

You misunderstand what I was trying to say.

I was trying to say that the problem is not mass immigration, but rather that particular mass immigration.

Our tests are in English, because this is still a whole country, and lest we'd like it to split, there should be one language under which we're united. That language is English. And even though there is no national language law, God knows I wish there was.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Meuge
I was trying to say that the problem is not mass immigration, but rather that particular mass immigration.

Our tests are in English, because this is still a whole country, and lest we'd like it to split, there should be one language under which we're united. That language is English. And even though there is no national language law, God knows I wish there was.

I totally agree. It's a good thing we can elect leaders who share this view. :disgust:

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: Shuxclams
My son is in 3rd grade, he is in the GATE program has started algebra this last quarter. Yes this is public scool, LAUSD, we work with him daily, we read a new book every month.... I guess parents need to be more involved.




SHUX

So how old is he, 15? Average at math and below average in every other subject?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: zendari
If people want to come into our country, they learn our language. But of course this is the feelgood type of liberals in Cali we are talking about.

Then get congress to make English the official language and then you'll actually have an argument on what 'Our Language' actually is. Because it's pretty clear that 'MY' language differs from 'YOUR' language. There is no 'OUR' language.

I find it rather amusing that most of the rest of the world teaches English as a second language, but so many of the Spanish speaking people of this country don't want to be bothered with having to learn English.

 

[Kadarin]

For once I agree with zendari... Also:

Originally posted by: techs
a conclusion may be drawn that Spanish speakers have no less personal motivaton to learn English than previous groups but do not have the necessity to learn English as quickly.

You know, necessity makes for excellent personal motivation.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: zendari
If people want to come into our country, they learn our language. But of course this is the feelgood type of liberals in Cali we are talking about.

Then get congress to make English the official language and then you'll actually have an argument on what 'Our Language' actually is. Because it's pretty clear that 'MY' language differs from 'YOUR' language. There is no 'OUR' language.

I find it rather amusing that most of the rest of the world teaches English as a second language, but so many of the Spanish speaking people of this country don't want to be bothered with having to learn English.

And therefore they should learn the consequences.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: tw1164

Originally posted by: techs
Myth: Spanish speaking immigrants don't learn the English language.

Truth: All studies indicate that Spanish speaking immigrants learn English only SLIGHTY slower than other immigrant groups did.

Reason: Far more media exist in Spanish than did years ago. Spanish speakers can now get news, weather, etc in their native language which mitigates the NEED to learn English as quickly and fully as previous immigrant groups. From this a conclusion may be drawn that Spanish speakers have no less personal motivaton to learn English than previous groups but do not have the necessity to learn English as quickly.

Cite you sources please.

I posted this in a previous thread but can't find it.
Perhaps someone remembers the thread?

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
For once I agree with zendari... Also:

Originally posted by: techs
a conclusion may be drawn that Spanish speakers have no less personal motivaton to learn English than previous groups but do not have the necessity to learn English as quickly.

You know, necessity makes for excellent personal motivation.

I agree.
But to suddenly pass a law that affects high school kids in this way is unfair to the kids who had no idea it was a necessity.
I wonder how many of immigrants kids who came over here years ago would have graduated high school if they had to pass a formal English test?

 

[smack Down]

Exit exams are stupid. If the student can pass the classes they should graduate.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: smack Down
Exit exams are stupid. If the student can pass the classes they should graduate.

Classes can be watered down. Exams cannot.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: smack Down
Exit exams are stupid. If the student can pass the classes they should graduate.

They are given several chances to ensure they have learned the minimums. 8th grade math, and 10th grade english/reading skills. Graduation should require much more.

Originally posted by: techs
I agree.
But to suddenly pass a law that affects high school kids in this way is unfair to the kids who had no idea it was a necessity.
I wonder how many of immigrants kids who came over here years ago would have graduated high school if they had to pass a formal English test?

Suddenly? This has been warned about for several years, but everytime the state tries to implement it, one court challenge or another gets it postponed...

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: smack Down
Exit exams are stupid. If the student can pass the classes they should graduate.

Classes can be watered down. Exams cannot.

SO how is a student suppossed to pass the exam when the classes don't teach such material.

 

[JACKHAMMER]

Originally posted by: Cooler

Originally posted by: techs
In reading the article this caught my eye:


I. I will tell you first hand my HS foreign language teachers really sucked and you really did not learn anything at all. I was a 4.0+ student and I was getting D's on the standardized finals because of the teachers. The book we used did not even have ½ the material that we were being tested on as well.

i had a chuckle on that one.. It was your teachers fault you knew nothing? ROFL.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
For once I agree with zendari... Also:

Originally posted by: techs
a conclusion may be drawn that Spanish speakers have no less personal motivaton to learn English than previous groups but do not have the necessity to learn English as quickly.

You know, necessity makes for excellent personal motivation.

I agree.
But to suddenly pass a law that affects high school kids in this way is unfair to the kids who had no idea it was a necessity.
I wonder how many of immigrants kids who came over here years ago would have graduated high school if they had to pass a formal English test?

So their graduation is delayed for a while until they master some basic English. Why is it so hard to understand (or agree with) the concept of enforcing the idea that students must demonstrate a certain basic proficiency in a variety of subjects before graduation? Why even have a school system if you don't?

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/05/09/MNGSVIO7NI1.DTL

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/edi....story?coll=la-news-comment-editorials

goddamned low standards. it doesn't test for 12 grade proficiency, it tests for 8th grade math and 10th grade english. if you can't pass that you shouldnt get a diploma end of story. now we are going to hand out fraudulent credentials thanks to this bs. i don't care how incompetent your teacher is. any half intelligent kid should be able to learn atleast 8th grade math.

8th grade math, ORLY? last time I checked it was geometry which is 10th grade math..

Here is my opinion on the HS Exit exam...
If you can pass the exam, one should be able to get a diploma right there and then if they so choose. It shouldn't be a 'ged' but a real HS diploma, I mean hell if this is the one test holding some one back from graduating and is a tool to guage your education level, then why bother with the 'credits' system? Why should someone need a certain amount of credits to graduate highschool if they passed the HS exit exam?

everytime i've heard it talked about on npr or in the news its refered to as 8th grade math. npr esp is generally very good at sticking to the facts.

as for the girl with the supposed 3.8gpa that can't hack it. sounds like she's a victim of grade inflation eh? i really really doubt there are many cases of straight A students not being able to hack 10th grade english.. this test is administered several times to give students an idea early on what skills are required of them. a straight A student would see this bar and aim to pass it through diligent study, they have years to prepare and self evaluate, not weeks or months like with normal class tests. so i don't believe she would have failed if was legit. the fact is most students pass this test, let alone the A students. one wonders how she managed to pass her 10th grade english class let alone get good grades in the reste of her classes since english is fundamental to excelling in everything but math.

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/05/09/MNGSVIO7NI1.DTL

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/edi....story?coll=la-news-comment-editorials

goddamned low standards. it doesn't test for 12 grade proficiency, it tests for 8th grade math and 10th grade english. if you can't pass that you shouldnt get a diploma end of story. now we are going to hand out fraudulent credentials thanks to this bs. i don't care how incompetent your teacher is. any half intelligent kid should be able to learn atleast 8th grade math.

8th grade math, ORLY? last time I checked it was geometry which is 10th grade math..

Here is my opinion on the HS Exit exam...
If you can pass the exam, one should be able to get a diploma right there and then if they so choose. It shouldn't be a 'ged' but a real HS diploma, I mean hell if this is the one test holding some one back from graduating and is a tool to guage your education level, then why bother with the 'credits' system? Why should someone need a certain amount of credits to graduate highschool if they passed the HS exit exam?

everytime i've heard it talked about on npr or in the news its refered to as 8th grade math. npr esp is generally very good at sticking to the facts.

as for the girl with the supposed 3.8gpa that can't hack it. sounds like she's a victim of grade inflation eh? i really really doubt there are many cases of straight A students not being able to hack 10th grade english.. this test is administered several times to give students an idea early on what skills are required of them. a straight A student would see this bar and aim to pass it through diligent study, they have years to prepare and self evaluate, not weeks or months like with normal class tests. so i don't believe she would have failed if was legit. the fact is most students pass this test, let alone the A students. one wonders how she managed to pass her 10th grade english class let alone get good grades in the reste of her classes since english is fundamental to excelling in everything but math.

It's definately NOT 8th grade math, I'd know because I took it.. People don't have years to prepare for these tests, the tests were JUST inacted and I'd say it's not fair to some people who reside in certain areas.. I passed the test easily but I can definately see how some one could NOT pass the test since I know people who graduated high school whose last math class was algebra..

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: smack Down
Exit exams are stupid. If the student can pass the classes they should graduate.

Classes can be watered down. Exams cannot.

SO how is a student suppossed to pass the exam when the classes don't teach such material.

They don't teach 10th grade english?

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: smack Down
Exit exams are stupid. If the student can pass the classes they should graduate.

Classes can be watered down. Exams cannot.

SO how is a student suppossed to pass the exam when the classes don't teach such material.

They don't teach 10th grade english?

Guess not if a person is able to get a 3.8 GPA and fail the exit exam.

 

[senseamp]

I don't think 10th grade English is necessary. A lot of people do well in this country who come here with poor english. I think TOEFL level english would be acceptable. Math is a bigger problem, IMO.

 

[BoomerD]

Don't people bother to read anymore?

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Here's some info on the exit exams here:

http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/hs/documents/infoparents05.pdf

http://www.edsource.org/pdf/QA_hseefinal.pdf
"The exam has two sections: English language arts (ELA)
and mathematics. In the ELA section, students are tested
on material up through the state?s 10th grade standards."
"In the mathematics section, students are given multiplechoice
questions on material that is covered through Algebra
I. (California encourages schools to offer Algebra I in
8th grade, and it is a high school graduation requirement.)"

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Philippine Mango

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/05/09/MNGSVIO7NI1.DTL

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/edi....story?coll=la-news-comment-editorials

goddamned low standards. it doesn't test for 12 grade proficiency, it tests for 8th grade math and 10th grade english. if you can't pass that you shouldnt get a diploma end of story. now we are going to hand out fraudulent credentials thanks to this bs. i don't care how incompetent your teacher is. any half intelligent kid should be able to learn atleast 8th grade math.

where was this hs where the last class was algebra?
in the bay area our schools even have ap calculus classes.

8th grade math, ORLY? last time I checked it was geometry which is 10th grade math..

Here is my opinion on the HS Exit exam...
If you can pass the exam, one should be able to get a diploma right there and then if they so choose. It shouldn't be a 'ged' but a real HS diploma, I mean hell if this is the one test holding some one back from graduating and is a tool to guage your education level, then why bother with the 'credits' system? Why should someone need a certain amount of credits to graduate highschool if they passed the HS exit exam?

everytime i've heard it talked about on npr or in the news its refered to as 8th grade math. npr esp is generally very good at sticking to the facts.

as for the girl with the supposed 3.8gpa that can't hack it. sounds like she's a victim of grade inflation eh? i really really doubt there are many cases of straight A students not being able to hack 10th grade english.. this test is administered several times to give students an idea early on what skills are required of them. a straight A student would see this bar and aim to pass it through diligent study, they have years to prepare and self evaluate, not weeks or months like with normal class tests. so i don't believe she would have failed if was legit. the fact is most students pass this test, let alone the A students. one wonders how she managed to pass her 10th grade english class let alone get good grades in the reste of her classes since english is fundamental to excelling in everything but math.

It's definately NOT 8th grade math, I'd know because I took it.. People don't have years to prepare for these tests, the tests were JUST inacted and I'd say it's not fair to some people who reside in certain areas.. I passed the test easily but I can definately see how some one could NOT pass the test since I know people who graduated high school whose last math class was algebra..

where are these hs where the last class is algebra, here in the bay area where we have a high % mexican non white we still have access to ap calculus classes in hs

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: techs
Myth: Spanish speaking immigrants don't learn the English language.

Truth: All studies indicate that Spanish speaking immigrants learn English only SLIGHTY slower than other immigrant groups did.

Reason: Far more media exist in Spanish than did years ago. Spanish speakers can now get news, weather, etc in their native language which mitigates the NEED to learn English as quickly and fully as previous immigrant groups. From this a conclusion may be drawn that Spanish speakers have no less personal motivaton to learn English than previous groups but do not have the necessity to learn English as quickly.

MYTH-- Spanish kids will speak english in public schools!!
They may learn to speak english but thayt 100% of the time revert back to spanish!!

 

[Powermoloch]

The school failed them, not the students. It is unfortunate that I had graduated 3 years ago although the test is not official, and thankfully i'm doing very well at CSULB (wooo!).


I never knew my results anyway...rofl