sigh, I give up

[andylawcc]

5/03/05 update: so after new O2, new exhaust manifold, spark plugs, wires, distri cap, rotor, and oil change and K&N air filter cleansing; I still fail smog, by quite a large margin (i even drove the car 15 mins on the freeway at 80mph). I failed coz of high HC output; in the first test I was up the max level by 32, and after all the changes above (except the O2 sensor) the HC level still exceed the max by 15.
the only thing left I can do myself is the fuel filter change.

the mechanic said my 200k engine is too old and has too much carbon built up. He recommended me to do a de-carbonizing, which I heard it can do treachous things to the internals. On the other hand, the timing is perhaps off and there's some leak in the head gasket. (i burn roughly 3/4 quart of oil every 4000 miles). Also, he said the fuel injectors need cleaning.

so what should I do now??



i just changed the O2 Sensor and thought I will pass.

but my HC level is at 83 (max is 60)
the mechanic said he can do diagnostic for 50 bucks to see what the problem is; chances are, he said, the engine is misfiring. beside, he said since my car has high mileage failing is not a rare case (203,000 miles)

is there anytihng I could do on my part to keep the HC level lower (even temporarily) just to pass smog? again, my car is a 1996 Toyota Celica (OBD-II). 1.8L 7AFE.

oh, there IS a noticable crack on my exhaust manifold, would that contribute to the high HC level too?


oh, here's the result from the smog test:

Functional Check: (all the following passed)
PCV, Cat, EGR, Wiring to Sensors, Fuel Cap, Vacuum Lines to Sensors; Fuel Evaporative Controls, Fillpipe Restrictor; O2 Sensor, Fuel injection.

Emission Test:
I have a very high HC level, good CO and NO level.

compare to 2 years ago when it was smogged (by the same shop too):
I had a high HC level (better than current), and a similar level of CO and NO.

that was before I had the O2 Sensor replaced; I just installed the o2 two weeks ago, so it practically did NOTHING to the emissions????

 

[Viperoni]

Crack on the exhaust manifold causing not enough exhaust gas to make it through the EGR valve... what do you guys think?

 

[halik]

hahaha smog... someone make me live in Cali

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Viperoni
Crack on the exhaust manifold causing not enough exhaust gas to make it through the EGR valve... what do you guys think?

I think his headlight fluid is low.

 

[jagec]

You DID drive it hard right before testing, yes?

 

[Sex Smurf]

did you replace the cat converter recently?

my friends told me to do that with my car.

 

[njmodi]

Originally posted by: Viperoni
Crack on the exhaust manifold causing not enough exhaust gas to make it through the EGR valve... what do you guys think?

Wouldn't that send the exhaust gas out into thin air - not through the exhaust where its being measured... so a leaking manifold should cause the results to read high... imho.

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: jagec
You DID drive it hard right before testing, yes?

i did rev it more than necessary... but no freeway driving since it was 3:00pm and all freeways here in LA are pretty much jammed.

 

[njmodi]

It could be a stuck EGR valve or a catalytic converter that needs to be replaced... with 203,000 miles on the car - its very possible.

 

[andylawcc]

bump for the night crowd.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: halik
hahaha smog... someone make me live in Cali

Yeah really!

i did rev it more than necessary... but no freeway driving since it was 3:00pm and all freeways here in LA are pretty much jammed.

3:00 lol, at least in birmingham you've got until 4

 

[gaidensensei]

Originally posted by: andylawcc
i just changed the O2 Sensor and thought I will pass.

but my HC level is at 83 (max is 60)
the mechanic said he can do diagnostic for 50 bucks to see what the problem is; chances are, he said, the engine is misfiring. beside, he said since my car has high mileage failing is not a rare case (203,000 miles)

is there anytihng I could do on my part to keep the HC level lower (even temporarily) just to pass smog? again, my car is a 1996 Toyota Celica (OBD-II). 1.8L 4AGE.

oh, there IS a noticable crack on my exhaust manifold, would that contribute to the high HC level too?

my car isn't that much different from yours, except it's a '90 celica 5SFE so I have a bit of a larger engine. If it was the 4AFE version (celica ST), we wouldn't be too much different.

tho I dont know much about smog regulations (except to pass it here in cali), I do know that having a cracked manifold is VERY BAD. not only does your car lose performance, but more smog should be passing through the exhaust.

Find a trusty smog mechanic who you can trust. I go to mine and he lets me use my aftermarket air intake, as long as everything else is turned to stock.

 

[gaidensensei]

here's what a quick google just turned out

those mr2 mark1's use the same 4a-ge engines, except older. you don't want to change the manifold yourself except if you have the tools, patience, time, and experience to do so, otherwise have a good mechanic (or else you'll get billed up the butt).

i THINK back when I used to mess around with my car a lot, i saw a lot of new 4A-GE headers (OEM) on ebay, but I am not sure. You'll have to do some searching.

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: gaidensensei
you don't want to change the manifold yourself except if you have the tools, patience, time, and experience to do so, otherwise have a good mechanic (or else you'll get billed up the butt).

i have the time, patience; but no experience per se, nor tools (welll, I can borrow)
any case, I found cheap non-oem manifolds are 50 bucks already. BUT, my main concern is whether the crack contributes to the high HC level. on other words, would change the manifold solves the problem. If it doesn't, I rather keep the manifold that way.

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: gaidensensei

my car isn't that much different from yours, except it's a '90 celica 5SFE so I have a bit of a larger engine. If it was the 4AFE version (celica ST), we wouldn't be too much different.

oh, there's a mistake, my engine is actually 7afe, hehe, I always tell myself I got the 4age like the AE86

but I did find a 4-2-1 exhaust manifold plus pipe for 180. hummmm.....

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: andylawcc

Originally posted by: gaidensensei
you don't want to change the manifold yourself except if you have the tools, patience, time, and experience to do so, otherwise have a good mechanic (or else you'll get billed up the butt).

i have the time, patience; but no experience per se, nor tools (welll, I can borrow)
any case, I found cheap non-oem manifolds are 50 bucks already. BUT, my main concern is whether the crack contributes to the high HC level. on other words, would change the manifold solves the problem. If it doesn't, I rather keep the manifold that way.

Clean it up with a wire brush and go buy some JB Weld.

Let it dry before driving. It will last through the smog check.

If you haven't.... Change your oil and oil filter, air filter, plugs and wires.

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: Eli
Clean it up with a wire brush and go buy some JB Weld.

Let it dry before driving. It will last through the smog check.

If you haven't.... Change your oil and oil filter, air filter, plugs and wires.

and a tank full of 91 premium? would that help too?

 

[gaidensensei]

now that you mention it, I do remember that your generation celica are supposed to be 7AFE and 5SFE, for gt versions.

having a cracked manifold is one factor of not passing emissions, I know that for positive, guaranteed. think of it like walking through a field of poison gas, and your gas mask is leaking in some of that poisonous gas. well, weird image of showing that here but its the other way around.

4-2-1 headers are performance ones, if i recall correctly. they will cost more because they are aftermarket and make your car instantly go faster by 5-15 horsepower.

I don't know what the HC levels are for and how they are calculated.

also gassing up with the best grade gas out there does help that extra bit, I've heard about it in the past where people fill up with octane boosters and add best gas, and that helped them get the edge to pass emissions. having higher grade gas means that there's less crude, and that it burns cleaner.

if celica.net was back up, the forums are a very nice place to be. lots of people there with celica's of all years, and people who actually know what they're doing and what they talk about. some of them had worked as mechanics for toyota, ETC as far as I can remember.

i used to use that messageboard frequently to help on my various mods back in the days. they had everything. but recently, it seems that the forum has closed somehow, I don't know why either, I hadn't been there for a long time.

 

[Rhin0]

I'd just run Fuel Power in the tank and make sure you get the car as hot as possible. YOU WILL PASS THE TEST.

 

[andylawcc]

gaidensensei: I will look into it.

 

[andylawcc]

updated with Smog Test Results.

 

[hemiram]

Sometimes, changing the oil to a heavier weight will help, we used to put 2 cans of STP oil treatment into the oil, get it hot and reve the crap out of it, and it would sometimes make it pass. I didn't see how many miles is on it anywhere, maybe I missed it, but if it's using oil, that alone can cause the HC (that's unburned oil or fuel) to get out of control, with everything else ok. Sometimes injectors and carbs will leak slightly, and this gets it out of whack too.

Another thing that makes the HC go down is to install a Multiple Spark ignition, like MSD, etc. This would make most of the failures, if they were in ok basic shape, read almost nothing.
My old Dodge (with the MSD box bypassed) truck read about 200 on the HC, and about 3% on CO when set up for best power. Turning it on made the HC drop to almost nothing, like 15, and the CO below 1%. It did kill spark plug wires though..

 

[andylawcc]

bump in teh morning

 

[cjgallen]

I see fuel additives at Autozone that will "Guarantee you pass teh smog test!" or your money back. Maybe try one of those?

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Your fuel is not being burned completely. Check air and ignition system.