Shutdown over?

[Starbuck1975]

The Republicans have been hiding from that conversation for over a decade.

Hiding, or waiting to have control of the levers to shape the conversation?

 

[Maxima1]

I doubt that Repub voters want a shutdown to deny DACA, either, so it comes right back on the GOP.

I mean, how badly do their voters want to see these people get screwed? Not very badly at all.

I mean, I've seen a lot support DACA, but many indicated they don't want them able to vote, etc. And then those people seem much more conflicted on it, while the more hardline Trumpsters are all for deporting their butts out. Trump basically did well in the primaries with the smack talk on immigration. That's why I see DACA as a give from Republicans even if it's indeed small.

 

[IronWing]

Hiding, or waiting to have control of the levers to shape the conversation?

Hiding.

 

[fskimospy]

Trump is expanding DACA to provide paths to citizenship for 1.8M people. He is asking for stronger controls and the symbolic victory of his wall in return. That is a give and a take. You were arguing for equity. I was saying the minority party gets less in the deal because, well, they are the minority party.

You’re just repeating yourself. I’m not arguing for equity, I’m saying that ‘giving’ something Republicans already support isn’t giving anything.

Rejected

 

[Jaskalas]

You’re just repeating yourself. I’m not arguing for equity, I’m saying that ‘giving’ something Republicans already support isn’t giving anything.

Rejected

Democrats shut the government down because it wasn't on the budget. They demanded DACA. They get DACA.

Still, it's up to Republicans in Congress to put forth the bill for a vote. And it's up to Democrats not to shut it down again. We'll see how it plays out.

 

[fskimospy]

Democrats shut the government down because it wasn't on the budget. They demanded DACA. They get DACA.

Still, it's up to Republicans in Congress to put forth the bill for a vote. And it's up to Democrats not to shut it down again. We'll see how it plays out.

Democrats already removed DACA demands from funding.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You’re just repeating yourself. I’m not arguing for equity, I’m saying that ‘giving’ something Republicans already support isn’t giving anything.

Rejected

It is once the President decides to put it in play as a bargaining chip.

 

[Jhhnn]

I mean, I've seen a lot support DACA, but many indicated they don't want them able to vote, etc. And then those people seem much more conflicted on it, while the more hardline Trumpsters are all for deporting their butts out. Trump basically did well in the primaries with the smack talk on immigration. That's why I see DACA as a give from Republicans even if it's indeed small.

At the end of the day, it took a complete flaming asshole to put this particular group of innocent people in jeopardy and it'll take another group of assholes to not restore the privilege they've been afforded in the past.

Trump & the GOP took the Dreamers hostage & now issue demands for their safe release. Decent people know that's not right.

 

[fskimospy]

It is once the President decides to put it in play as a bargaining chip.

The president bargaining for a thing he already wants isn’t bargaining.

Jesus.

 

[dyna]

Democrats shut the government down because it wasn't on the budget. They demanded DACA. They get DACA.

Still, it's up to Republicans in Congress to put forth the bill for a vote. And it's up to Democrats not to shut it down again. We'll see how it plays out.

Democrats are passionate in their fight, however passion can be a path of irrational conclusions/strategies. In this situation, they didn't anticipate the outcome by the current leaders of the country. They just need to take a deep breath, smoke a doobie and chill out.

 

[glenn1]

You’re just repeating yourself. I’m not arguing for equity, I’m saying that ‘giving’ something Republicans already support isn’t giving anything.

Rejected

Sounds like how Obamacare negotiations were handled on both sides and we know how that turned out.

 

[ivwshane]

Sounds like how Obamacare negotiations were handled on both sides and we know how that turned out.

Yeah, concessions were made and the bill received no Republican votes. Sounds just like what's happening now /eyeroll

 

[Starbuck1975]

The president bargaining for a thing he already wants isn’t bargaining.

Jesus.

The Democrats shutting down the government over something the majority of Americans don't perceive as tied to the budget isn't bargaining.

Christ

 

[fskimospy]

Sounds like how Obamacare negotiations were handled on both sides and we know how that turned out.

Not at all. More than 100 republican amendments were incorporated. Where do you get these ideas?

 

[fskimospy]

The Democrats shutting down the government over something the majority of Americans don't perceive as tied to the budget isn't bargaining.

Christ

Does this mean you agree with me now that the republicans aren’t trying to bargain?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Does this mean you agree with me now that the republicans aren’t trying to bargain?

This means there are Democrat strategists who, as I am typing this, pouring over polling data and making the following determination: do we energize the "resistance" or do we appeal to swing voters.

It's not like anyone is negotiating from a position of principle.

 

[Jhhnn]

This means there are Democrat strategists who, as I am typing this, pouring over polling data and making the following determination: do we energize the "resistance" or do we appeal to swing voters.

It's not like anyone is negotiating from a position of principle.

Attributing GOP "values" to Dems is a mistake. The notion that swing voters find screwing over the Dreamers appealing is the same.

 

[Jaskalas]

You’re just repeating yourself. I’m not arguing for equity, I’m saying that ‘giving’ something Republicans already support isn’t giving anything.

Rejected

Maybe the establishment supports amnesty, but the Republican base? Here's a full explanation and video. Step into their world.
The Ingraham Angle 1/26/18: Immigration Segment.

 

[fskimospy]

Maybe the establishment supports amnesty, but the Republican base? Here's a full explanation and video. Step into their world.
The Ingraham Angle 1/26/18: Immigration Segment.

An overwhelming majority of republicans support legalizing DACA recipients.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-support-daca-but-oppose-border-wall-cbs-news-poll/

 

[Jaskalas]

An overwhelming majority of republicans support legalizing DACA recipients.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-support-daca-but-oppose-border-wall-cbs-news-poll/

That is somewhat surprising. The Republicans I know personally share Ingraham's view. They generally take the harshest stance possible on illegal immigration. Regardless, and let's say you have a point that many Republicans support DACA, do they support it over a government shutdown? No.

 

[Jhhnn]

That is somewhat surprising. The Republicans I know personally share Ingraham's view. They generally take the harshest stance possible on illegal immigration. Regardless, and let's say you have a point that many Republicans support DACA, do they support it over a government shutdown? No.

So, the GOP can avoid a shutdown by doing the right thing by the Dreamers. Why don't they just do that?

Maybe because it runs contrary to all the craziness & hate they & Trump have spread over this issue. Go ahead- tell me that never happened.

 

[fskimospy]

That is somewhat surprising. The Republicans I know personally share Ingraham's view. They generally take the harshest stance possible on illegal immigration. Regardless, and let's say you have a point that many Republicans support DACA, do they support it over a government shutdown? No.

So why not just pass it since everyone supports it?

Here’s why, they are trying to hold a policy everyone wants hostage so they can pass policies almost no one wants.

 

[Jaskalas]

Is there more opposition on the Republican side than your polling suggests?

Reality sets in that DACA deal might not get done

The proposal was panned by the left and the right. Groups who support restricting immigration slammed it as "amnesty." Democratic lawmakers and immigration advocates rejected it as a "massive, cruel and family-punishing overhaul of our current legal immigration system," as New Jersey's Sen. Bob Menendez phrased it.​

 

[fskimospy]

Is there more opposition on the Republican side than your polling suggests?

Reality sets in that DACA deal might not get done

The proposal was panned by the left and the right. Groups who support restricting immigration slammed it as "amnesty." Democratic lawmakers and immigration advocates rejected it as a "massive, cruel and family-punishing overhaul of our current legal immigration system," as New Jersey's Sen. Bob Menendez phrased it.​

I said from the beginning that no deal was likely for precisely this reason. The extreme right controls the agenda for the Republican Party as long as they insist on passing measures with only Republican votes.

That being said, you shouldn't confuse the opinion of extreme right nativist groups with the opinion of the average Republican. Same with plenty of other issues like universal background checks. They are overwhelmingly supported by Republican voters but go nowhere because the extreme right hates them.

 

[Jhhnn]

I said from the beginning that no deal was likely for precisely this reason. The extreme right controls the agenda for the Republican Party as long as they insist on passing measures with only Republican votes.

That being said, you shouldn't confuse the opinion of extreme right nativist groups with the opinion of the average Republican. Same with plenty of other issues like universal background checks. They are overwhelmingly supported by Republican voters but go nowhere because the extreme right hates them.

The delusional Teahadis have the GOP right by the cojones. They're financed by the same ultra right billionaires as the rest of the Party.