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Shutdown over?

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OutHouse said:
you dont care? does the below pic illustrate who are?

26805120_1562242133863822_4229310336291845912_n.jpg
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I'm sure this fanciful plight of our troops really bothered Trump while he was having his ego-stroking kegger over the weekend.
 
glenn1 said:
Anyone honestly considering the relative positions of both sides will realize the Dems have the far weaker hand of the two. Pretty much every pre-agreement outcome is bad for the Dems - federal workers in MD and VA represented by Dem Senators will be without pay and extremely pissed, DACA deportations wouldn't be stopped (as I said ICE employees are exempt from furlough), and a GOP president in charge of exactly how maximum pain will be doled out and you can be pretty sure those who will get the pain are dear to Democrat hearts. Plus as others have stated the polls say voters are prioritizing government being open over DACA resolution. In poker terms the Democrats are trying to draw to an inside straight here and are highly likely to come out of this situation worse off.
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A few thousand federal workers mean nothing when you lock down 70%+ of all Hispanic votes for the next 3 generations. Republicans know this which is why Mitch is doing everything he possibly can to trick Democrats into stabbing their DACA supporting constituency in the back and letting him continue with his #MAGA white power agenda immediately.

It also makes the GOP and Trump Trump look incompetent when they control every lever of government yet they cannot even keep the government open. The buck stops at the president, it's his fault that he can't get the government to open. He cancelled DACA and made no provision to fix it, thus the Trump shutdown began.
 
What word that is leaking out of the WH indicates that the administration wants basically every item on their immigration agenda enacted (including a $33B immediate appropriation for the wall we're not supposed to pay for) in return for, probably, less than citizenship for DACA recipients. To remind people this would include a huge reduction in legal immigration across the board along with slate of internal enforcement measures that would lead to mass deportation. Basically every immigration hardliner's wet dream come true.

This does not strike me as a position that the Dem minority could ever even come close to accommodating. Not even for DACA. Also this is exactly opposite of what Trump said he wanted previously (deal with DACA first) then all other immigration items.
 
It's a trap. As soon as they get the government back on they will reneg on their promises and go back to mass deportations and wall building. The democrats have the power to make trump look like an incompetent moron to every federal employee and user of federal services until he gives in and they NEED to use it.


Time to make the republicans squeal like a pig!
 
glenn1 said:
Anyone honestly considering the relative positions of both sides will realize the Dems have the far weaker hand of the two. Pretty much every pre-agreement outcome is bad for the Dems - federal workers in MD and VA represented by Dem Senators will be without pay and extremely pissed, DACA deportations wouldn't be stopped (as I said ICE employees are exempt from furlough), and a GOP president in charge of exactly how maximum pain will be doled out and you can be pretty sure those who will get the pain are dear to Democrat hearts. Plus as others have stated the polls say voters are prioritizing government being open over DACA resolution. In poker terms the Democrats are trying to draw to an inside straight here and are highly likely to come out of this situation worse off.
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Except that more voters blame Republicans for the shutdown than Democrats which kind of pokes a hole in your theory, no?

The main problem here is simply that the GOP is melting down and is nearly entirely nonfunctional as a governing party. They already had a bipartisan deal in the Senate to keep the government open that Trump pledged to sign, then he went back on his word, so now nobody even knows what they are negotiating about. Second, there's no indication that house Republicans will go along with any deal that's reached by the Senate because they are too ideologically extreme and Ryan won't pass a bill with any Democratic votes.

I imagine what will end up coming out of this is the government gets funded with some sort of Senate vote on the DACA fix that the House will ignore or vote down. At least then we won't have to go through this song and dance where the GOP says they want to protect DACA people but then shoot down every proposal to do so. It would be much easier if they just came out and said they had no interest in this and thought deporting productive workers was a good idea.
 
Starbuck1975 said:
For someone in blue collar Ohio or Michigan or Pennsylvania, DACA is not a reason to shut down the government. Trump is playing to them.
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It works the other way as well, which is what is going to hurt them. I've heard multiple Trump supporters today say that they don't understand why he can't make a minor deal with the democrats to keep the government open. One person said, 'We know that there is going to be a DACA deal, Trump has said so already, so why are they being stupid about it?'

Unsurprisingly the White House has a message problem. People remember Trump saying that Congress should make DACA official, not that they should ignore it.

The majority of Dreamers reside in California, Texas and New York.
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The majority of Americans reside in California, Texas and New York.
 
If you play chicken with the welfare of the country at stake in a test of will between fanatics and more rational people, who do you think will cave. Democracy is dead. We are governed by the 1% who have bought off both sides. I see little hope for the country other than some small chance that some small lessons will be preserved and instituted in new law if we somehow manage to rebuild out of destruction and chaos.
 
fskimospy said:
The main problem here is simply that the GOP is melting down and is nearly entirely nonfunctional as a governing party. They already had a bipartisan deal in the Senate to keep the government open that Trump pledged to sign, then he went back on his word, so now nobody even knows what they are negotiating about. Second, there's no indication that house Republicans will go along with any deal that's reached by the Senate because they are too ideologically extreme and Ryan won't pass a bill with any Democratic votes.
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This so much.
 
K1052 said:
What word that is leaking out of the WH indicates that the administration wants basically every item on their immigration agenda enacted (including a $33B immediate appropriation for the wall we're not supposed to pay for) in return for, probably, less than citizenship for DACA recipients. To remind people this would include a huge reduction in legal immigration across the board along with slate of internal enforcement measures that would lead to mass deportation. Basically every immigration hardliner's wet dream come true.

This does not strike me as a position that the Dem minority could ever even come close to accommodating. Not even for DACA. Also this is exactly opposite of what Trump said he wanted previously (deal with DACA first) then all other immigration items.
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33 billion for a wall? Yeah, get fucked Donnie. Why don't we just go ahead and re-locate Rust Belt voters down to the border and stick them down there as a makeshift militia. That's $33,000 a year for the next ten years for 100,000 down on their luck coal miners.
 
glenn1 said:
Anyone honestly considering the relative positions of both sides will realize the Dems have the far weaker hand of the two.
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The Dems don't have any hand here. The Republicans control the government and chose to shut it down. The Dems can only sit on the sidelines while the Republicans score self goal after self goal.
 
fskimospy said:
Second, there's no indication that house Republicans will go along with any deal that's reached by the Senate because they are too ideologically extreme and Ryan won't pass a bill with any Democratic votes.
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Looks like we're gonna find out. Though he could decide to peace out and trash can the "majority of the majority" stuff and pass a bunch of bipartisan legislation before retiring. Congress isn't going to pass a budget resolution this year so no reconciliation gun means no big partisan legislation for his healthcare/social program cutting dreams. The next few years probably hold little to offer but lots of pain.
 
SMOGZINN said:
It works the other way as well, which is what is going to hurt them. I've heard multiple Trump supporters today say that they don't understand why he can't make a minor deal with the democrats to keep the government open. One person said, 'We know that there is going to be a DACA deal, Trump has said so already, so why are they being stupid about it?'

Unsurprisingly the White House has a message problem. People remember Trump saying that Congress should make DACA official, not that they should ignore it.


The majority of Americans reside in California, Texas and New York.
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I have heard the opposite, that they are glad a President is finally taking a hardline stance on immigration, and that they don't understand why a temporary entitlement is shutting down the government.
 
Starbuck1975 said:
I have heard the opposite, that they are glad a President is finally taking a hardline stance on immigration, and that they don't understand why a temporary entitlement is shutting down the government.
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Given that they voted for Trump there's clearly a lot of things they don't understand. The Dreamers are simply depersonalized, rendered into an abstraction. Non-persons. Things to be vilified.
 
glenn1 said:
Anyone honestly considering the relative positions of both sides will realize the Dems have the far weaker hand of the two. Pretty much every pre-agreement outcome is bad for the Dems - federal workers in MD and VA represented by Dem Senators will be without pay and extremely pissed, DACA deportations wouldn't be stopped (as I said ICE employees are exempt from furlough), and a GOP president in charge of exactly how maximum pain will be doled out and you can be pretty sure those who will get the pain are dear to Democrat hearts. Plus as others have stated the polls say voters are prioritizing government being open over DACA resolution. In poker terms the Democrats are trying to draw to an inside straight here and are highly likely to come out of this situation worse off.
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I agree with this, and it seems to be 538's take as well. I think the Dems picked the wrong hill to die on.
 
Jaskalas said:
You're completely discounting 49 Senators who are not Republican. Newsflash, Democrats don't have to hold the country hostage.
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It’s important to note that the DACA bill that was already agreed on could easily pass both the House and Senate if Republicans permitted a vote on it. It has overwhelming support.
 
Zorba said:
I agree with this, and it seems to be 538's take as well. I think the Dems picked the wrong hill to die on.
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The idea that anybody will remember this a week or month from when it is resolved is, at this point, a quaint notion.
 
Looks like a compromise has been reached. Ds saying they'll vote yes.

In addition to DACA votes on ACA stabilization appear to have been (again) promised to secure Collins + a couple Ds. Timing is the real question now. If McConnell fucks everybody he made deals with over again all bets will be off in Feb when the CR runs out.
 
K1052 said:
Looks like a compromise has been reached. Ds saying they'll vote yes.

In addition to DACA votes on ACA stabilization appear to have been (again) promised to secure Collins + a couple Ds. Timing is the real question now. If McConnell fucks everybody he made deals with over again all bets will be off in Feb when the CR runs out.
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Trump wins again. Democrat traitors give GOP everything they want in exchange for promises they already know are meaningless.
 
fskimospy said:
It’s important to note that the DACA bill that was already agreed on could easily pass both the House and Senate if Republicans permitted a vote on it. It has overwhelming support.
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You know, that does bother me. The minority party should have the power to bring forth some items to vote on too.
 
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