Should you turn your kid in?

Stark

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2000
7,735
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Why bother, when you can sue!
Student gets diploma after threatening lawsuit
By Monica Alonzo-Dunsmoor
The Arizona Republic
June 10, 2002 12:00:00

A threatening letter from her lawyer and an opportunity to retake an exam hours before graduation helped a West Valley high school student get her diploma last month.

The Sunrise Mountain senior failed a required English class but graduated with her class despite her teacher's objections after retaking and passing the test five hours before the ceremony.

The girl received her diploma, but her English teacher, Elizabeth Joice, wasn't there to see it. Joice didn't attend the May 23 ceremony.

On May 22, Stan Massad, a Glendale attorney representing the Peoria family, faxed a letter to Joice asking her to take "whatever action is necessary" for the student to graduate or the family would be forced to sue.

"Of course, all information regarding your background, your employment records, all of your class records, past and present, dealings with this and other students becomes relevant, should litigation be necessary," he wrote to the teacher.

Massad declined to comment.

Joice responded the same day in a two-page letter that she would be remiss in her duties as a teacher if she passed the student. The letter stated the student was given every opportunity to pass the class and that her parents were aware of their daughter's lack of academic progress.

"Caving to your demand, and the demands of (the student's) parents to pass her when she does not deserve to pass, would not be fair to all of my other students," Joice wrote.

Extra opportunity

The student was given an extra opportunity to work on a final paper but did not attend the makeup session. She also received partial credit for a plagiarized assignment, according to Joice's letter.

School officials, citing federal student privacy laws, would not say who made the decision to allow the senior to retest.

The case raises questions about accountability, teacher discretion and teacher support.

"This is symptomatic of a larger issue in education, and it has to do with standards," said Ron Melnick, director of Arizona State University's Morrison Institute for Public Policy. "There was a standard the teacher and district arguably set. If you start messing with that, you can get into a lot of trouble . . . fulfilling your mission to educate young people at a certain level."

A recent institute survey shows that among the top reasons teachers leave the profession is a perception they don't have the authority to do their job.

"They feel they're micromanaged or not supported," Melnick said.

Acting Peoria Unified School District Superintendent Jack Erb said the district supports its teachers, but he declined to comment on why in this case the teacher's decision was not upheld.

Overturning a teacher's decision to pass or fail a student is rare, said Chris Thomas, director of Arizona School Board Association Legal Services.

The district's policy states that parents can appeal a teacher's decision by requesting a School Board review of the case. That didn't happen.

"As with anything else, we try to handle things at the campus level," district spokesman Jim Cummings said.

The student's stepmother, who The ArizonaRepublic is not identifying to protect the girl's privacy, said it was too late for School Board appeals so the family turned to an attorney.

Retaking test

She said it was not fair that her stepdaughter wasn't initially allowed to retake the test.

"There are a lot of different reasons why kids don't test well on a particular day," she said. "Numerous teachers within the school district allow their students to retest if they get a low test score. As far as I'm concerned, if one allows it, they all should."

Joice, who has taught in the Peoria district for 17 years, would not comment on the details but said students in senior English classes weren't allowed to retake tests.

"What would be unfair would be to allow one student to retake a test and not allow the others the same option," she said.

About five hours before graduation, the girl was called in to retake the 50-question multiple-choice test she failed about three weeks earlier in class. Other seniors in the district who didn't graduate are taking summer school courses to earn their diplomas.

Cummings said the district is not "pressured by attorneys or anyone else to change school policy."

The girl's stepmother thinks getting an attorney may have helped.

"All of the sudden we did get a quick decision," she said. "I asked the principal what they based the decision on, and she didn't have an answer."

Thomas said lawsuits by parents against schools are becoming more common.

"Sometimes it's the threat of litigation," he said. "They hope the school district will just give in because they just don't want to go through litigation. They hope the district won't think it's worth it."

Tom Pickrell, an attorney for Mesa Public Schools, the state's largest school district, said the burden of proof falls on the student to show academic standards were mastered.

"When the administrator has to review a decision to pass or fail the student, it's fair to expect the teacher to show professional guidelines in how the grade was determined," he said. "Once those standards are met, the law expects there to be deference to the teacher."

Beyond that, he said, it's up to the parents to go to the School Board and make their appeal there.

Cummings said situations like this one are commonly handled at school level.

'Stay on track'

"You give them every opportunity from the start of their senior year to five minutes before graduation, if you have to, to help them pass," Cummings said. "You work as hard as you can to make sure that students stay on track, and if they get off track, you work with them."

Greg Donovan, a Peoria Unified School District School Board member, said he was comfortable with the decision made by school officials.

"I have to put faith in the principal and our administration that they look at our situation and decide this is the best way to assess this student, keeping with state and board requirements," he said.
What a country. :disgust::eek::(;):):);):(:eek::disgust::D:disgust::eek::disgust::D:|:Q:p:cool::frown::cool::p:Q:|:Q:p:cool::frown:
 

LordJezo

Banned
May 16, 2001
8,140
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I am going to sue the mods here for not making me an elite member.

There are many different reasons why on certain days I do not post my best but that is no reason for them not to make me one.



PPPPFFFFFTTT!!! This story just makes me angry.. like the one about the group that was going after Subaru for having a mother and daughter release a bunny into the wild in one of their commericals. They demanded that the commercial be taken down because it was showing cruelty to the bunny.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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Fuggin ludicrous. I think, however, that we can all take pleasure in the fact that her life will fittingly amount to nothing. She sounds like a spoiled lazy bizatch. Unless her parents feed her money for the rest of her life she'll have a hard time in the real world and irregardless it speaks volumes of her as a person. She was given an extra opportunity and didn't bother to do it so she finally threatens to sue.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
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So this girl doesn't do well, she's faced with a teacher who sticks to her guns and a threatened lawsuit gets her her way. What a crock of sh!t.

This is the new education standard in this country--- Cheat if you have to, that's OK and if you can't pass your classes, higher a lawyer and threaten to sue.
 

fr

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
6,408
2
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School officials, citing federal student privacy laws, would not say who made the decision to allow the senior to retest.


Why bother with lawyers when all she needed were kneepads?



Kidding!
 

Tallgeese

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2001
5,775
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If that kind of cr@p happened to Mrs. Tallgeese, she would tell that family and their bottom-feeder lawyer where they could stick it, and prolly leave the teaching profession forever. Of course, she nearly had something like this happen (sans lawyer) this very school year.

For those of you who read my previous post about it in Carbo's "cheating daughter" thread, you already know:

Mrs. Tallgeese = BADASS
 

Waveslidin

Senior member
Apr 28, 2002
297
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My sister is a teacher in New Jersey and she told me the other day they are allowed to give a failing grade once. After that, no more failing grades are to be given, under any circumstances because of the emotional harm and setbacks that it causes. She is also not allowed to use a red pen on any homework or other turned in assignments. The color is too bold and may be hurtful to some. She has been using a purple pen instead....but has even had requests by parents to not grade with a purple pen because they don't like it. Wtf?????

How about this quote from the article......"She also received partial credit for a plagiarized assignment, according to Joice's letter."
She should have failed the class after getting caught for that.......


 

sheselectric

Golden Member
Mar 6, 2002
1,210
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Originally posted by: Waveslidin
She is also not allowed to use a red pen on any homework or other turned in assignments. The color is too bold and may be hurtful to some. She has been using a purple pen instead....but has even had requests by parents to not grade with a purple pen because they don't like it. Wtf?????

That is ridiculous. I'm sick of parents coming down too hard on teachers when they probably aren't doing their job as parents right in the first place. My parents taught me to show respect for my teachers, even if we got into disagreements. In today's litigious age, though, parents think suing will patch up the problems they themselves caused through incorrect parenting.
 

BigJohnKC

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2001
2,448
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Originally posted by: Waveslidin
My sister is a teacher in New Jersey and she told me the other day they are allowed to give a failing grade once. After that, no more failing grades are to be given, under any circumstances because of the emotional harm and setbacks that it causes. She is also not allowed to use a red pen on any homework or other turned in assignments. The color is too bold and may be hurtful to some. She has been using a purple pen instead....but has even had requests by parents to not grade with a purple pen because they don't like it. Wtf?????

How about this quote from the article......"She also received partial credit for a plagiarized assignment, according to Joice's letter."
She should have failed the class after getting caught for that.......

I remember in sixth grade our history teacher broke a yard stick over a kid's head in class one day for sleeping during class. He also used to wear this big cowboy ring on his finger, and he'd turn it towards his palm and hit you on top of your head if you were goofing off. Whatever happened to being able to discipline kids? Teachers are so afraid of what might happen nowadays that they can't even keep the kids in line and learning without fear of losing their jobs or getting sued. They can't even touch a kid anymore or they'll get sued for child abuse. This is total crap. When I have kids I'll send them to a private school that isn't quite as politically correct as the public schools have become.
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
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I would say, bring on the lawsuit. Almost any judge would throw it out almost immediatly before even going to trial.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
I remember in sixth grade our history teacher broke a yard stick over a kid's head in class one day for sleeping during class. He also used to wear this big cowboy ring on his finger, and he'd turn it towards his palm and hit you on top of your head if you were goofing off. Whatever happened to being able to discipline kids?
The only person who will be hitting my kid is me! :Q I don't like corporal punishment in class. There are always ways around it.
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Originally posted by: Waveslidin
My sister is a teacher in New Jersey and she told me the other day they are allowed to give a failing grade once. After that, no more failing grades are to be given, under any circumstances because of the emotional harm and setbacks that it causes. She is also not allowed to use a red pen on any homework or other turned in assignments. The color is too bold and may be hurtful to some. She has been using a purple pen instead....but has even had requests by parents to not grade with a purple pen because they don't like it. Wtf?????

How about this quote from the article......"She also received partial credit for a plagiarized assignment, according to Joice's letter."
She should have failed the class after getting caught for that.......
That's just wrong. I would fail whoever deserved to fail and then sue the district if I get fired. I'd use red pen because it adequetly highlights mistakes and makes it easier to see. I wouldn't care about their emotional development. If you fail, you fail. Sucks to be you, doesn't it?
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
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Cummings said the district is not "pressured by attorneys or anyone else to change school policy."
...cough....Bull...cough...sh1t

Was she saying this while taking off her presidential kneepads?

"Of course, all information regarding your background, your employment records, all of your class records, past and present, dealings with this and other students becomes relevant, should litigation be necessary," he wrote to the teacher.

The lawyer issued threats..argueably blackmail
Joice responded the same day in a two-page letter that she would be remiss in her duties as a teacher if she passed the student. The letter stated the student was given every opportunity to pass the class and that her parents were aware of their daughter's lack of academic progress.
The student was given an extra opportunity to work on a final paper but did not attend the makeup session. She also received partial credit for a plagiarized assignment, according to Joice's letter.

Given the chance to pass twice..and she blew them both off

School officials, citing federal student privacy laws, would not say who made the decision to allow the senior to retest.The student's stepmother, who The ArizonaRepublic is not identifying to protect the girl's privacy

How convenient..not to mention protecting her from colleges who would throw her application away if they knew what she did.
One more reason why the school system is a joke and another reason why to homeschool your children

Summary..slacker and cheater hires sleazy lawyer, obtains diploma.
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
I remember in sixth grade our history teacher broke a yard stick over a kid's head in class one day for sleeping during class. He also used to wear this big cowboy ring on his finger, and he'd turn it towards his palm and hit you on top of your head if you were goofing off. Whatever happened to being able to discipline kids?
The only person who will be hitting my kid is me! :Q I don't like corporal punishment in class. There are always ways around it.
very true. In High School, if you fell asleep a teacher would spray you with water from a waterbottle (used to clear overhead projectors). It did the job and was playful at the same time. No one minded it and it got the point across. Physically hurting a child in class is not an option though.
 

yakko

Lifer
Apr 18, 2000
25,455
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I wonder who this girl will hire when she gets fired from her first job for not performing it well. Stuff like this is total bullshit.
 

Azraele

Elite Member
Nov 5, 2000
16,524
29
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That's ridiculous.
The student was given an extra opportunity to work on a final paper but did not attend the makeup session. She also received partial credit for a plagiarized assignment, according to Joice's letter.
I agree with the teacher, she should not have been allowed to graduate.
 

DanFungus

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2001
5,857
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that's rediculous...
(Nitemare--the Peta link is f---ing HILARIOUS!! I love the hate mail!)