Should women not be allowed into the marines/SWAT team (LAPD)?

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: RedCOMET
Its interesting that we talk about women doing this stuff... and just think, 50-70 years ago, it would have been the same discussion except that instead of women being invovled in these elite units/ or in the same units as men, it would have been talking about black men and white men fighting in these same units. Boy, do times change.

The difference is that back then those concerns were based on irrational racism, while today it's based on well understood scientific facts (like upper body strength requirements).

 

[abracadabra1]

You're making some connections that aren't necessarily true. Yes, there are plenty of women Marines. However, the majority aren't grunts (i.e. infantry). There are hundreds of different MOS' (military operational specialties, i.e jobs) in the Marines that have nothing to do with being a ground pounder. Marines are often the first large-scale force to be deployed, but long before that plenty of spec ops guys are sent to the fight. The most elite of those forces, such as the SEALs, still do not allow women.

I think most agree that if she can do what I can do, then I don't give a damn whether she squats or stands.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: lyssword
I'm pretty sure to shoot a gun it's unnecessary to bench press 300 lb. And for running there is less gap in strenght between women and men.
Swat teams require a lot of teamwork, and women usually more team-aware.

SWAT also requires more than holding/shooting a gun.

More women than men find it harder to shoot their first kill and hesitation is bad

Your statistics are stinky and brown.

 

[spacejamz]

OP, are you Indian and do you have an ad in Craig's List? Just wondering...

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: lyssword
I'm pretty sure to shoot a gun it's unnecessary to bench press 300 lb. And for running there is less gap in strenght between women and men.
Swat teams require a lot of teamwork, and women usually more team-aware.

SWAT also requires more than holding/shooting a gun.

More women than men find it harder to shoot their first kill and hesitation is bad

So maybe some gender specific psychological training is in order. Once again, as long as they can perform as well as men psychologically and physically (the latter being the main barrier), I see no problem.

But we all know that in a dire situation, training doesn't help your mind. For example, people are trained to not eat other humans but in a dire situation, I would (and I'm sure others would) even though right now, I don't think I could do it.

Actually....that's exactly what training is for. Your body's reflexes and thought process become essentially robotic.

 

[Mr Pickles]

Have you ever heard this? I don't know if its a myth or not but I've heard that women are not aloud to be placed on the front lines because men will instinctively make decisions based on protecting a female over a male. I don't know if I'm stating it right, but I hope I'm making sense. I've heard people say that, for instance, the thought of a females dying by a man's side would be much more detrimental than if just another male was killed.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: MrLee
Have you ever heard this? I don't know if its a myth or not but I've heard that women are not aloud to be placed on the front lines because men will instinctively make decisions based on protecting a female over a male. I don't know if I'm stating it right, but I hope I'm making sense. I've heard people say that, for instance, the thought of a females dying by a man's side would be much more detrimental than if just another male was killed.

I've heard the argument it would slaughter morale, yes. The military doesn't currently offer "front lines" positions to women.
From goarmy.com's job categories:

Combat: Involves Army reconnaissance, security, and other aspects of both offensive and defensive combat situations. Jobs include artillery specialists, infantry, special operations and tank crew. All combat MOSs are closed to women.

...however there are certainly plenty of situations where women are placed in the line of fire as part of their job (convoy, mechanic, etc...).

 

[FDF12389]

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Why not? SWAT isn't like what you see in the movies...bam bam go in and kill everyone. It's very tactical and all options are exhausted before they get a chance to do anything. Most standoffs are taken care of before anything ever happens.

As long as they're physically capable, have the same reflexes, etc as everyone else they'll be fine. You're not going to find a new female recruit running point on a new operation.

I'm sorry, but even if they can pass all the tests that men can pass, they should still not be in the same group together. Biologically, we're different - no training can change that.

Why else do you think the WNBA is not mixed in with the NBA?

Because they compete better against each other, thats sports entertainment, not tactical combat.

And as someone who has actually had to draw up before, I find it hard to believe with the same training Ive had or more, anyone(Male or Female) would have trouble pulling the trigger. Fortunately I've never had to.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: lyssword
I'm pretty sure to shoot a gun it's unnecessary to bench press 300 lb. And for running there is less gap in strenght between women and men.
Swat teams require a lot of teamwork, and women usually more team-aware.

Sure, because that's all that tactical units and military combat units do is "shoot guns". :roll: What happens if your buddy, who weighs 250lbs, is shot, and you have to drag him out of the line of fire while wearing 50-100lbs of tactical gear (both of you)?

(Most) Women lack upper body strength compared to (most) men. The problem with the military is that the physical fitness standards are NOT the same for men and women. What's always been curious to me is that women are supposedly better at endurance events than men, yet men are held to higher endurance standards than women in the military. Figure that one out.