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Should we tax excessive wealth, and if so how much?

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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
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You still havent seem to figured out what socialist or even communist means.

Also taxing consumption or certain consumption can be a quite effective method in getting people to change behaviour instead of using other forms of restriction. Taxing consumption is no different than subsidizing consumption. Something very widespread in the US.

A good example on how lack of taxing consumption hurts a country, consumers and companies is simply to look on the US energy usage.

Consumption taxes are always inherently regressive. VAT or Sales tax by its nature is always regressive. The higher the tax the more regressive it becomes as well. This is why all major progressive groups oppose consumption taxes because they hurt those with lower income more.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,384
5,384
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we don't tax stuff. taxing stuff in general is stupid. I already paid taxes on my income to get the stuff, why should I continue to pay taxes because I own something.


Oh right, its that communist/socialist thinking infecting your mind that you'll be in denial of.
so, in two responses to me you've had 2 personal attacks. fantastic arguing technique.


we do tax stuff, plenty of states have property taxes. i guess all those texas governments way back when have been communist. who knew?
 
Apr 27, 2012
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Lol at idiots wanting higher taxes. The income tax should be ended and replaced with a national sales/consumption tax. The government right now is way too big and needs to be cut.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,395
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Consumption taxes are always inherently regressive. VAT or Sales tax by its nature is always regressive. The higher the tax the more regressive it becomes as well. This is why all major progressive groups oppose consumption taxes because they hurt those with lower income more.
How much energy do you use in your household per day? We use 3Kw/h here. The consumption tax on energy saves the average joe here for alot of money. Simply because the incentive to go energy efficient in the home is high enough to avoid the instant gratification factor of not to. For some reason average joes can only handle the point of buying a home as a long term beneficial investment.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,820
30
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Either we're free individuals entitled to the fruits of our labor, or we aren't.
Some have fruits without labor. Others have labor without fruits. That is the difference between the richest and the poorest. Others in between work their ass off their entire lives and still live off paychecks and no decision in life guarantees anything for individuals financial futures.
However i don't feel giving tax breaks just because you manufacture Rum and ship it to Portugal or wherever it is, is a necessity to keep our society running so healthy as it is now :rolleyes:

How much energy do you use in your household per day? We use 3Kw/h here. The consumption tax on energy saves the average joe here for alot of money. Simply because the incentive to go energy efficient in the home is high enough to avoid the instant gratification factor of not to. For some reason average joes can only handle the point of buying a home as a long term beneficial investment.
Not everyone can afford to go high efficiency. I would have loved to gotten a 90% efficient furnace, but forced to go 80 or nothing at all...decisions, decisions. Or i could have sold my car and walked to work right..that's efficient. Money management for your family's monthly survival comes 1st. The problem here is the hardass attitudes with the amazing inability to have a broad perspective of the infinitly complex diversity of individuals lives.
 
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dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,912
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally Posted by michal1980
we don't tax stuff. taxing stuff in general is stupid. I already paid taxes on my income to get the stuff, why should I continue to pay taxes because I own something.

Oh right, its that communist/socialist thinking infecting your mind that you'll be in denial of.


so, in two responses to me you've had 2 personal attacks. fantastic arguing technique.

we do tax stuff, plenty of states have property taxes. i guess all those texas governments way back when have been communist. who knew?
The problem is he is rich and doesn't pay taxes.

He pays a CPA to skirt them like all the rich do.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
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Originally Posted by michal1980
we don't tax stuff. taxing stuff in general is stupid. I already paid taxes on my income to get the stuff, why should I continue to pay taxes because I own something.

Oh right, its that communist/socialist thinking infecting your mind that you'll be in denial of.




The problem is he is rich and doesn't pay taxes.

He pays a CPA to skirt them like all the rich do
.
Not sure if serious or just trolling
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,395
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Not everyone can afford to go high efficiency. I would have loved to gotten a 90% efficient furnace, but forced to go 80 or nothing at all...decisions, decisions. Or i could have sold my car and walked to work right..that's efficient. Money management for your family's monthly survival comes 1st. The problem here is the hardass attitudes with the amazing inability to have a broad perspective of the infinitly complex diversity of individuals lives.
Thats still a short term investment. Pay alittle now and pay more every month. Or pay alittle more now and pay less every month.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,321
2
0
I dont think there is a large potion of Ph.D people that sits in the top bracket.

It figures that is what you would get from that. When 85% of the richest people in America have an advanced degree, that is pretty compelling.
 
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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,021
9
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How much energy do you use in your household per day? We use 3Kw/h here. The consumption tax on energy saves the average joe here for alot of money. Simply because the incentive to go energy efficient in the home is high enough to avoid the instant gratification factor of not to. For some reason average joes can only handle the point of buying a home as a long term beneficial investment.
I use around 5Kw/h, but it varies. Consumption tax on energy tend to cost the poor more than the rich. The poor must spend a greater amount on energy and thus a greater amount of their income on the tax. Consumption taxes are always regressive.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,395
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I use around 5Kw/h, but it varies. Consumption tax on energy tend to cost the poor more than the rich. The poor must spend a greater amount on energy and thus a greater amount of their income on the tax. Consumption taxes are always regressive.
If energy consumption goes down. Who saves most of their disposable income. The rich or the poor?
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,021
9
81
If energy consumption goes down. Who saves most of their disposable income. The rich or the poor?
Energy usage tends to be inelastic, so the amount it goes down is insignificant compared to the tax. Again EVERY single major progressive group opposes any type of consumption tax. The rich and right wing groups are the ones that support consumption taxes. Think about that.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,183
60
91
I think we need a progressive capital gains tax, or just count all capital gains as income.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,395
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Energy usage tends to be inelastic, so the amount it goes down is insignificant compared to the tax. Again EVERY single major progressive group opposes any type of consumption tax. The rich and right wing groups are the ones that support consumption taxes. Think about that.
The average american household uses 11000kw/h a year. The average european household 4500kw/h a year.

Even if power cost twice as much in europe due to taxes. Is it then cheaper or more costly for average joe?
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,021
9
81
The average american household uses 11000kw/h a year. The average european household 4500kw/h a year.

Even if power cost twice as much in europe due to taxes. Is it then cheaper or more costly for average joe?
Average per capita I the u.s is 13000 and average in euope is around 10000. This per person.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,183
60
91
This is an idea that keeps surfacing from the White House:

http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-obama-may-turn-medicare-reform-wider-health-161415492.html

"Experts also see a potential role for tax reform - specifically, a reduction of the longstanding exclusion that protects individual workers from having their employer-sponsored health coverage taxed as a benefit."

So they going to tax unions if their health care is too good?

How about a mandatory health care tax on Marijuana or Medical MJ.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,894
3,452
126
Should we tax excessive wealth, and if so how much?

No, we should just sell them the country. They know how to run it efficiently.
 

Adrenaline

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2005
5,320
8
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While I am against excessive tax for the rich, I do believe we should up the estate tax, so the heirs above a certain bracket do not get more than 50% of their parents' wealth.
This tax has never made sense to me. All their funds they have and property they have, have been taxed at one point. Why are they getting double taxed and then some?

Maybe I am looking at this wrong?
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,474
2
0
This tax has never made sense to me. All their funds they have and property they have, have been taxed at one point. Why are they getting double taxed and then some?

Maybe I am looking at this wrong?
You're not. That is the argument against the estate tax.
 

simpletron

Member
Oct 31, 2008
182
7
81
I am beginning to think we need a tax on individuals who hold excessive wealth. Why does someone need to hoard 100+ million dollars. All these people is hoard all of this wealth while countless go without proper food, water, shelter, and medicine. This wouldn't be an income tax, but something in addition, a tax on all of your assets - liabilities over a preset amount. I was thinking 5% a year tax over 1 million and 10% a year tax over 10 million seem like a very fair amounts. You can be forced to liquidate assets to pay for it too. This will stop the excess hoarding of wealth.
You don't want anyone to retire... A net worth of million dollars or less is really low to retire on especially considering you should only spend 4% per year. My parents are retired; they have a networth around 3 million, live on about 100K/per and would be taxed 100K to 150K per year under your plan...nonsense.

Personally the only tax that needs to be fixed is the capital gains tax, where it should be 90%+ on sub-week gains(kills high-frequency trading, various short term nonsense), income tax rates on up to year (income is income), then slow decrease to <10% at 20 years (encourages true long term investment, stablizing growth).
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,021
9
81
I may have been wrong about amount of electricity consumption, but you are still clueless about everything in economics. You are the one who lacks facts. You spew the same shit that right wingers do, you have the same support for regressive taxes, and the same idea of economics.

Regardless higher prices does not lead to significantly lower energy usage, we have taxes on electricity consumption here it does not drive down usage. Areas were electric rates are twice as high as other do NOT have significantly lower usage. You lack a basic understanding of simple economics.
 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,395
128
106
I may have been wrong about amount of electricity consumption, but you are still clueless about everything in economics. You are the one who lacks facts. You spew the same shit that right wingers do, you have the same support for regressive taxes, and the same idea of economics.

Regardless higher prices does not lead to significantly lower energy usage, we have taxes on electricity consumption here it does not drive down usage. Areas were electric rates are twice as high as other do NOT have significantly lower usage. You lack a basic understanding of simple economics.
Oh the irony. You supplied zero facts as usual.

I assume thats how you roll.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,183
60
91
I think you will find that houses in the USA are quite a bit larger on average. I have always thought that homes that use more electricity should have to pay a higher price for what they use. However, this can be misleading. Some newer homes that larger sometimes use less electricity than older houses that are smaller. This is due to more modern construction techniques.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
1
0
I am beginning to think we need a tax on individuals who hold excessive wealth. Why does someone need to hoard 100+ million dollars. All these people is hoard all of this wealth while countless go without proper food, water, shelter, and medicine. This wouldn't be an income tax, but something in addition, a tax on all of your assets - liabilities over a preset amount. I was thinking 5% a year tax over 1 million and 10% a year tax over 10 million seem like a very fair amounts. You can be forced to liquidate assets to pay for it too. This will stop the excess hoarding of wealth.
This is among the most stupid of ideas I've ever seen... and that, my friends, is saying something.

Wealth is not something to be taxed. The tax system is not a good or proper tool to fight the "problem" of wealth inequality.
 

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