should we severely limit who gets into college?

[brainhulk]

Too many college admissions results in too many whiny college grads bitching they can't get jobs

 

[ThinClient]

No, college should be free for everyone. More skilled workers = less dumbasses = more innovation = more cool stuff!

 

[tortillasoup]

No, college should be free for everyone. More skilled workers = less dumbasses = more innovation = more cool stuff!

lol... As the saying goes, if you think college is expensive now, wait until it's free! Free=Worthless and this has been a hard lesson I've learned over the years which is why I'm being much more careful about doing things for people "for free". Stupid is forever and "educating" these people only makes them educated idiots. College shouldn't be free, instead our schools should be teaching real life applicable skills, none of this fluffy crap they teach now.

 

[ThinClient]

Knowledge is never worthless.

That's like saying that your high school diploma is worthless.

Eventually, a college degree will be absolutely required for all but the most skill-less positions --kinda like how it is now for GED holders vs diploma achievers.

 

[ThinClient]

I like England's approach at the matter.

You go to school and learn the basics through elementary, but when you hit high school, you decide a major and you only take classes that benefit that major.

Seriously win.

 

[Mixolydian]

No, college should be free for everyone. More skilled workers = less dumbasses = more innovation = more cool stuff!

Yes, because innovation requires a college education... That kind of thinking is what's wrong with the educational system.

 

[ThinClient]

Yes, because innovation requires a college education... That kind of thinking is what's wrong with the educational system.

You are the only one in this thread making that strawman claim. Stop posting.

 

[ThinClient]

Yes, because innovation requires a college education... That kind of thinking is what's wrong with the educational system.

Perhaps what's wrong with the educational system is that those who I would assume to be a recent graduate like Mixo here are graduated with sub-standard reading comprehension skills.

 

[pcgeek11]

Knowledge is never worthless.

That's like saying that your high school diploma is worthless.

Eventually, a college degree will be absolutely required for all but the most skill-less positions --kinda like how it is now for GED holders vs diploma achievers.

That isn't true now. I've never been to college and have a GED and work for a world wide manufacturer as an electronics technician making just short of 100K a year.

So no, your over broad statement isn't true.

 

[ThinClient]

That isn't true now. I've never been to college and have a GED and work for a world wide manufacturer as an electronics technician making just short of 100K a year.

So no, your over broad statement isn't true.

Of course it's true. Your experience in life is extremely rare. Most people who are too stupid to attain their diploma and limp wrist their way through getting a GED very rarely end up in positions requiring higher education. You know this is true.

You have obviously been working at it quite a while now to be at that level without so much as a high school diploma. Lots of OTJ, lots of working your way up the ladder, etc. That means you started a while ago. I'm referring to people entering the job market NOW, not back when you did when dinosaurs ruled the planet.

 

[Red Squirrel]

The entire system needs to change. Instead of requiring education to get a job, it should simply require knowledge/experience, and entry level jobs should not require much... because they're entry level, and that's where you should be able to go to acquire experience, and move up. It should be possible to get a job out of high school and only very specific jobs like doctor should require further education, and this education should be more applicable to the real world. I went to college for 3 years, I can't say I learned all that much that applied to my actual job, I just did it because I had to in order to get a job, not because it helped me be better at the job. I learned more during my summer break while working than I did in college. The same would be true for university, probably even more true, at least in college we did do SOME hands on stuff like Cisco.

 

[ThinClient]

If we change our entire education model to mirror the awesome UK system, you'll have years of education and hands-on experience under your belt by the time you graduate.

This general studies nonsense through the whole of high school and then again through the first two years of college is stupid.

There was a high school here that, the first four years it was open, offered Cisco education. You could graduate high school with Cisco certifications. They don't do it anymore though

 

[Kaido]

Default should we severely limit who gets into college?

We already do, by making it too expensive

Even my local community college is charging over $600 a semester just in books. Not everyone has access to a good family support system for financial aid or has the knowledge of how to get grants & loans. I think we would do a lot better if our students didn't graduate with $50 to $100k in debt. There's a whole meme set of Old Economy Steve that pretty much sums it up:

http://www.quickmeme.com/Old-Economy-Steven/?upcoming

I know a discussion of government intervention is more of a P&N discussion, but I do think the government should intervene and at least place limits to education costs. It's highway robbery what some schools are charging now, and we're shooting ourselves in the foot by deterring kids from going to college due to the high cost (or having kids go and have a lifetime of debt) in order for the private student loan sector to make a profit. I don't think that's going to be real good for our future...

 

[yuku]

The entire system needs to change. Instead of requiring education to get a job, it should simply require knowledge/experience, and entry level jobs should not require much... because they're entry level, and that's where you should be able to go to acquire experience, and move up. It should be possible to get a job out of high school and only very specific jobs like doctor should require further education, and this education should be more applicable to the real world. I went to college for 3 years, I can't say I learned all that much that applied to my actual job, I just did it because I had to in order to get a job, not because it helped me be better at the job. I learned more during my summer break while working than I did in college. The same would be true for university, probably even more true, at least in college we did do SOME hands on stuff like Cisco.

what you have learned in college probably have little use to your future job which is very true, but you had to go to college in order to get a job in society later and this is the reality. You said that "Instead of requiring education to get a job, it should simply require knowledge/experience", which is very difficult to realize. For young people who do not have much social experience, the education maybe the only benchmark to sort people out

 

[Slammy1]

College is not the cause of entitlement issues. Having interviewed a number of college grads I see a pattern.

Have you ever worked before, even a part time job in the Summer?
No, I focused on my school work (and got Bs and Cs).

Describe your ideal job.
A job requiring a PhD in my field but I have no desire to go back to school.

Where do you see yourself in 5 years?
As your boss.

It's not everyone, but a high enough percent to disappoint.

 

[BoomerD]

Yes. Let's start by eliminating any type of financial aid...just stop offering grants, subsidies, loans, etc.
That will have the effect of weeding out the poor people who don't have access to the necessary wherewithal to pay for college in the first place...

Next, let's start raising tuition costs to make it even less affordable to those poseurs who THINK they're special...without actually being special.

Finally...eliminate state colleges and universities. After all...if we're going to remove the non-paying poor from the education system...why do we need state supported educational institutions?


College ain't for everyone. It's a good thing for those who know what they want to do with their lives...and want the type of job/career that requires "book learning," but not all "good jobs" require such education. OJT/apprenticeships/trade schools are a much better option for many people.

 

[gorcorps]

Yes. Let's start by eliminating any type of financial aid...just stop offering grants, subsidies, loans, etc.
That will have the effect of weeding out the poor people who don't have access to the necessary wherewithal to pay for college in the first place...

Next, let's start raising tuition costs to make it even less affordable to those poseurs who THINK they're special...without actually being special.

Finally...eliminate state colleges and universities. After all...if we're going to remove the non-paying poor from the education system...why do we need state supported educational institutions?


College ain't for everyone. It's a good thing for those who know what they want to do with their lives...and want the type of job/career that requires "book learning," but not all "good jobs" require such education. OJT/apprenticeships/trade schools are a much better option for many people.

The last thing we need is for college to get even more expensive. IMO it's easier to weed stupid people out through classes than with money, because there's potentially decent performers out there that will have to take loans in order to get through school. They shouldn't be punished because their family doesn't have money.

 

[edro]

If employers interviewed everyone who wanted the job, just to find the brilliant ones, they would be overwhelmed.
They have to start somewhere, and a degree does a ton of filtering.

I don't think you can do anything about college admissions.
The problem works its way out on its own.

 

[brainhulk]

If employers interviewed everyone who wanted the job, just to find the brilliant ones, they would be overwhelmed.
They have to start somewhere, and a degree does a ton of filtering.

I don't think you can do anything about college admissions.
The problem works its way out on its own.

less people with degrees, less people to interview = employees control the market

As it is right now, stupids flood the market making it easy for employers to lower pay, benefits, and hours...etc. I think their saying right now is everyone is replaceable.

 

[OverVolt]

Knowledge is never worthless.

That's like saying that your high school diploma is worthless.

Eventually, a college degree will be absolutely required for all but the most skill-less positions --kinda like how it is now for GED holders vs diploma achievers.

Nope, its degree inflation it won't keep going like this forever, things change, and already are changing.

 

[OverVolt]

less people with degrees, less people to interview = employees control the market

As it is right now, stupids flood the market making it easy for employers to lower pay, benefits, and hours...etc. I think their saying right now is everyone is replaceable.

I really don't like online applications. Worst thing to ever happen IMO. Even though nepotism is on the rise and in person applications would make it worse, I feel like walking in to fill out a real application was much better. Probably weeds out more than 50% unwilling to call or drive to the location.

I feel like the job market is completely off its rocker. There is no way to really tell the good applicants from the bad. Everyone was taught the same way of bullshitting applications, good employee, bad employee, they are literally identical applications copy pasted and edit details repeat. HR ends up bringing in nothing but bad employees for an interview and goes whelp I guess we will hire the least bad.

 

[Mursilis]

No, college should be free for everyone. More skilled workers = less dumbasses = more innovation = more cool stuff!

You could spend your lifetime attempting to teach my dog Latin, but he still wouldn't be any smarter than when you started, and you'd have wasted resources (your lifetime). Not everyone is college material.

 

[OverVolt]

You could spend your lifetime attempting to teach my dog Latin, but he still wouldn't be any smarter than when you started, and you'd have wasted resources (your lifetime). Not everyone is college material.

Yea like the kids in college I just graduated with.

No Joke I'm framing the Chem diploma and using it as a coaster while I get started on something that is actually productive finally. I guess I finished the degree so my parents would shut up about it. They aren't too happy with my coaster-diploma.

 

[mammador]

More graduates means a more productive economy. So yeah, turn the US economy into shit. it's not the 19th century, countries need in the modern world economy a high degree of skilled people. Back then, a few only truly needed to go to university, now it's not the case.

Also, very few countries have free education since they cannot afford it. And this even pre-Great Recession was true. It means higher taxes, and of course the masses won't accept that.

A degree means getting a better job, more money, etc. so pass that up? This is more or less the reason people are conditioned to go to college.

And yeah, unemployment is still high and GDP growth is low. So yeah, this is why there are less jobs...

As many people as possible should go to university, since without it economies won't be competitive.

 

[Eureka]

The point of free college isn't to make everyone educated. It's to give everyone a chance to get educated. Whether or not they capitalize on it, or utilize the knowledge, should be up to the individual.

And since it isn't paid for by the student, there's no reason to make it easy (e.g. diploma mills), so those that do graduate are well educated.