Should we really be demanding that immigrants learn our history?

[magomago]

One of the things I know is a push to have immigrants learn American history, however I disagree with this. I think it is extremely unfair to immigrants, largely because that is assuming that citizens here KNOW American History. But as a country we know very little about our past to a point that we might call very dangerous. If we asked all the citizens basic questions on American history I would not hesitate to say that most would not pass.
We may have been exposed to it, but that doesn't mean we know it at all.

To make it fair to immigrants we should only require that they be exposed to American History: make them take a government sponsered class that they must attend. I know issues such as whether or not the immigrants will attend (though mandatory classes would alleviate that problem), if the government is presenting a one sided story (which they will), and if the immigrants will simply care, or just go to get their name registered and then not pay attention and or try to leave.
But to that I say: in our schools many kids skip even though they have to go, history is boiled down to where you get a sugar coated version that isn't very accurate, and most don't even care if they learned anything.

We should always hold immigrants to our standards at all times, even if our standards suck.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: magomago
One of the things I know is a push to have immigrants learn American history, however I disagree with this. I think it is extremely unfair to immigrants, largely because that is assuming that citizens here KNOW American History. But as a country we know very little about our past to a point that we might call very dangerous. If we asked all the citizens basic questions on American history I would not hesitate to say that most would not pass.
We may have been exposed to it, but that doesn't mean we know it at all.

To make it fair to immigrants we should only require that they be exposed to American History: make them take a government sponsered class that they must attend. I know issues such as whether or not the immigrants will attend (though mandatory classes would alleviate that problem), if the government is presenting a one sided story (which they will), and if the immigrants will simply care, or just go to get their name registered and then not pay attention and or try to leave.
But to that I say: in our schools many kids skip even though they have to go, history is boiled down to where you get a sugar coated version that isn't very accurate, and most don't even care if they learned anything.

We should always hold immigrants to our standards at all times, even if our standards suck.

I totally disagree...
IMO immigrants should have to go through what all those who have come before them went through!!

In fact they should be held to a greater standard if they want citizenship.

This subject actually has nothing to do with how well the average american knows US History.

 

[magomago]

Could you elaborate on why you disagree?

What does this have to do with the generation that came before them? All it will prove if nothing changes, and stricter requirements on US history is passed, that the immigrants will know our history FARRR better than the native born American Citizen.

I just beleive it is hippocritical that we want immigrants to "walk the walk" when it comes to certain points such as learning US history, when the MAJORITY of our population can't even "crawl the crawl"

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: magomago
Could you elaborate on why you disagree?

What does this have to do with the generation that came before them? All it will prove if nothing changes, and stricter requirements on US history is passed, that the immigrants will know our history FARRR better than the native born American Citizen.

I just beleive it is hippocritical that we want immigrants to "walk the walk" when it comes to certain points such as learning US history, when the MAJORITY of our population can't even "crawl the crawl"

So immigrants should only be expected to perform to the abilites of the lowest common denomenator of the general US citizenry? Yikes.

 

[CanOWorms]

Wouldn't them taking a class be the same exact thing? They would still have to pass a test, at least currently they don't have to waste their time with required time for a class. When someone I know took the test, it was ridiculously easy if you barely studied.

 

[BoomerD]

You insuate that the average American doesn't know much about our history...That's ludicrous. Why it's common knowledge that George Washington cut down that cherry tree when he discovered America. The Pilgrims invented Pumpkins and built the first Plymouth, called the Rock. Abe Lincoln invented Lincoln Logs, and was the first CEO. Theodore Roosevelt single handedly won the 2nd World War, so named, because it took place mostly in 2nd world countries, as compared to todays' 3rd world countries...AND, the Japanese invaded Pearl Harbor becuse we had too many pearls,,duh,,,and that's why there are so many Japanese and Chinese people there now.
See, I aint near so dumb as you look...

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: magomago

the government is presenting a one sided story (which they will)... history is boiled down to where you get a sugar coated version that isn't very accurate

I wasn't aware that they told much history or even a story. I thought they ask questions such as "What is the Constitution" and "How many amendments are there?" and stuff like that.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: magomago
One of the things I know is a push to have immigrants learn American history, however I disagree with this. I think it is extremely unfair to immigrants, largely because that is assuming that citizens here KNOW American History. But as a country we know very little about our past to a point that we might call very dangerous. If we asked all the citizens basic questions on American history I would not hesitate to say that most would not pass.
We may have been exposed to it, but that doesn't mean we know it at all.

To make it fair to immigrants we should only require that they be exposed to American History: make them take a government sponsered class that they must attend. I know issues such as whether or not the immigrants will attend (though mandatory classes would alleviate that problem), if the government is presenting a one sided story (which they will), and if the immigrants will simply care, or just go to get their name registered and then not pay attention and or try to leave.
But to that I say: in our schools many kids skip even though they have to go, history is boiled down to where you get a sugar coated version that isn't very accurate, and most don't even care if they learned anything.

We should always hold immigrants to our standards at all times, even if our standards suck.

For once in this century can we RAISE standards instead of lowering them?

Maybe instead we should demand that the public knows something about history... not just american, but world history as well. As a matter of fact, I firmly believe that the right to vote should be contingent on passing a fairly comprehensive history and american government exam. We can't require people to be smart, but at least we can ensure that they had the information needed to make an informed decision, if they are capable. Otherwise our "voting public" is just an ignorant crowd, ripe for picking over wedge issues.

 

[TGS]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
I totally disagree...
IMO immigrants should have to go through what all those who have come before them went through!!

In fact they should be held to a greater standard if they want citizenship.

This subject actually has nothing to do with how well the average american knows US History.

You would have to qualify at what time period you are talking about. Not too long ago people could come over on a boat, sign a register, and they were citizens.

Originally posted by: Meuge
For once in this century can we RAISE standards instead of lowering them?

Maybe instead we should demand that the public knows something about history... not just american, but world history as well. As a matter of fact, I firmly believe that the right to vote should be contingent on passing a fairly comprehensive history and american government exam. We can't require people to be smart, but at least we can ensure that they had the information needed to make informed decision, if they are capable. Otherwise our "voting public" is just an ignorant crowd, ripe for picking over wedge issues.

Don't expect to get elected into office on those type of radical ideas. Now I have some snake oil to sell the american public, that will ensure they pass these tests. Which of course will be made freely available to the public, when I'm elected. 😉

 

[techs]

http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/general.htm
It would really help if people didn't make nonsense threads that contradict the facts.

An applicant for naturalization must demonstrate a knowledge and understanding of the fundamentals of the history and of the principles and form of government of the United States.

And before anyone brings it up:

Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language


So whats the point of this thread? Does someone want to elminate these requirement?
(another p*wnage)

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: techs
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/general.htm
It would really help if people didn't make nonsense threads that contradict the facts.

An applicant for naturalization must demonstrate a knowledge and understanding of the fundamentals of the history and of the principles and form of government of the United States.

And before anyone brings it up:

Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language


So whats the point of this thread? Does someone want to elminate these requirement?
(another p*wnage)

I say we should extend the requirement to american-born people too.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: techs
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/general.htm
It would really help if people didn't make nonsense threads that contradict the facts.

An applicant for naturalization must demonstrate a knowledge and understanding of the fundamentals of the history and of the principles and form of government of the United States.

And before anyone brings it up:

Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language


So whats the point of this thread? Does someone want to elminate these requirement?
(another p*wnage)

I say we should extend the requirement to american-born people too.

The ending of "civics" classes in High Schools was very bad for the US. I think we should re-implement them.
At the least teach our kids the branches of government, how the separation of power works, etc.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: magomago
One of the things I know is a push to have immigrants learn American history, however I disagree with this. I think it is extremely unfair to immigrants, largely because that is assuming that citizens here KNOW American History. But as a country we know very little about our past to a point that we might call very dangerous. If we asked all the citizens basic questions on American history I would not hesitate to say that most would not pass.
We may have been exposed to it, but that doesn't mean we know it at all.

To make it fair to immigrants we should only require that they be exposed to American History: make them take a government sponsered class that they must attend. I know issues such as whether or not the immigrants will attend (though mandatory classes would alleviate that problem), if the government is presenting a one sided story (which they will), and if the immigrants will simply care, or just go to get their name registered and then not pay attention and or try to leave.
But to that I say: in our schools many kids skip even though they have to go, history is boiled down to where you get a sugar coated version that isn't very accurate, and most don't even care if they learned anything.

We should always hold immigrants to our standards at all times, even if our standards suck.

I totally disagree...
IMO immigrants should have to go through what all those who have come before them went through!!

In fact they should be held to a greater standard if they want citizenship.

This subject actually has nothing to do with how well the average american knows US History.

YA, let's have everybody take a citizenship test and deport everyone who fails, for five years. That will do the trick, citizenship as a privilege not a right!

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: magomago
One of the things I know is a push to have immigrants learn American history, however I disagree with this. I think it is extremely unfair to immigrants, largely because that is assuming that citizens here KNOW American History. But as a country we know very little about our past to a point that we might call very dangerous. If we asked all the citizens basic questions on American history I would not hesitate to say that most would not pass.
We may have been exposed to it, but that doesn't mean we know it at all.

To make it fair to immigrants we should only require that they be exposed to American History: make them take a government sponsered class that they must attend. I know issues such as whether or not the immigrants will attend (though mandatory classes would alleviate that problem), if the government is presenting a one sided story (which they will), and if the immigrants will simply care, or just go to get their name registered and then not pay attention and or try to leave.
But to that I say: in our schools many kids skip even though they have to go, history is boiled down to where you get a sugar coated version that isn't very accurate, and most don't even care if they learned anything.

We should always hold immigrants to our standards at all times, even if our standards suck.

I totally disagree...
IMO immigrants should have to go through what all those who have come before them went through!!

In fact they should be held to a greater standard if they want citizenship.

This subject actually has nothing to do with how well the average american knows US History.

YA, let's have everybody take a citizenship test and deport everyone who fails, for five years. That will do the trick, citizenship as a privilege not a right!

Well, I don't know about deporting people, but certainly people who are ignorant of history and who do not know how our government is supposed to work, shouldn't vote.

 

[piasabird]

Well if you take the test for citizenship you are required to know how our government works and some basic history. Not every single battle in the civil war.

i.e.

What are the 3 branches of government?

How many representatives do you have?

How many senators are there in each state?

Who gave the gettysburg(spell) address?

Who chopped down the cherry tree? (This may be a myth)

My Wife is a US citizen and she had to take the test and she is Korean.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Meuge


I say we should extend the requirement to american-born people too.

To repeat what Lyndon Johnson said back in the '60's -

"Well, there goes the South . . . "

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Well if you take the test for citizenship you are required to know how our government works and some basic history. Not every single battle in the civil war.

i.e.

What are the 3 branches of government?

How many representatives do you have?

How many senators are there in each state?

Who gave the gettysburg(spell) address?

Who chopped down the cherry tree? (This may be a myth)

My Wife is a US citizen and she had to take the test and she is Korean.

High school students are still required to take classes in Government before they can graduate.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
You insuate that the average American doesn't know much about our history...That's ludicrous. Why it's common knowledge that George Washington cut down that cherry tree when he discovered America. The Pilgrims invented Pumpkins and built the first Plymouth, called the Rock. Abe Lincoln invented Lincoln Logs, and was the first CEO. Theodore Roosevelt single handedly won the 2nd World War, so named, because it took place mostly in 2nd world countries, as compared to todays' 3rd world countries...AND, the Japanese invaded Pearl Harbor becuse we had too many pearls,,duh,,,and that's why there are so many Japanese and Chinese people there now.
See, I aint near so dumb as you look...

:laugh:

did you piece that together from sugar packets, like Grandpa Simpson?

 

[BoomerD]

grandpa who? Is that Ashlee and Jessica's grandpa?

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: aka1nas

Originally posted by: piasabird
Well if you take the test for citizenship you are required to know how our government works and some basic history. Not every single battle in the civil war.

i.e.

What are the 3 branches of government?

How many representatives do you have?

How many senators are there in each state?

Who gave the gettysburg(spell) address?

Who chopped down the cherry tree? (This may be a myth)

My Wife is a US citizen and she had to take the test and she is Korean.

High school students are still required to take classes in Government before they can graduate.

Not where I grew up.

 

[fitzov]

Originally posted by: magomago
Could you elaborate on why you disagree?

What does this have to do with the generation that came before them? All it will prove if nothing changes, and stricter requirements on US history is passed, that the immigrants will know our history FARRR better than the native born American Citizen.

I just beleive it is hippocritical that we want immigrants to "walk the walk" when it comes to certain points such as learning US history, when the MAJORITY of our population can't even "crawl the crawl"

Maybe hippocritical for someone who doesn't really give a rat's ass about his country, but for those of us who think it's worth fighting for and take care to learn something about its history it's not hippocritical.

 

[straightalker]

Of course we should teach legal immigrants our history and require high standards for entry into the USA.

But why bring more in? We need a moratorium that halts all new immigration into the USA for at least 30 years. We already have all our jobs going overseas. So immigration by PEOPLE into the USA for jobs is no longer nessessary. The jobs are being shipped overseas and across our borders to places like China on a silver platter.

Great if your are the owner of an international corporation like Walmart. Screw everybody else! That's just business. Put a smile on it.

What USA history would our new citizens be required to learn? That is a great question. Look out! Our own Government will be teaching them. The incoming newbie horde will certainly not be taught the highest principles of our original Constitutional Republic. They will be taught to be what they are chosen to be. Worker bees to displace our middle-class.

Probably the only history they really need to be taught is life on an 1800's southern Plantation. Since this is the model for the new American century. And indeed the entire World.

History will be re-written to accomodate further corporate profits. Immigration is merely adjustments in labor pool. A form of resource management.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: magomago
Should we really be demanding that immigrants learn our history?

If we're talking about granting them citizenship, then HELL, YES! Citizenship means joining the society, not occupying it. There's no way they could do that without knowing the history of that society, for better or worse.

 

[dnuggett]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: magomago
One of the things I know is a push to have immigrants learn American history, however I disagree with this. I think it is extremely unfair to immigrants, largely because that is assuming that citizens here KNOW American History. But as a country we know very little about our past to a point that we might call very dangerous. If we asked all the citizens basic questions on American history I would not hesitate to say that most would not pass.
We may have been exposed to it, but that doesn't mean we know it at all.

To make it fair to immigrants we should only require that they be exposed to American History: make them take a government sponsered class that they must attend. I know issues such as whether or not the immigrants will attend (though mandatory classes would alleviate that problem), if the government is presenting a one sided story (which they will), and if the immigrants will simply care, or just go to get their name registered and then not pay attention and or try to leave.
But to that I say: in our schools many kids skip even though they have to go, history is boiled down to where you get a sugar coated version that isn't very accurate, and most don't even care if they learned anything.

We should always hold immigrants to our standards at all times, even if our standards suck.

I totally disagree...
IMO immigrants should have to go through what all those who have come before them went through!!

In fact they should be held to a greater standard if they want citizenship.

This subject actually has nothing to do with how well the average american knows US History.

YA, let's have everybody take a citizenship test and deport everyone who fails, for five years. That will do the trick, citizenship as a privilege not a right!

US Citizenship is a privilige to those from another country of citizenship. What a moronic statement. Since when do you think the "world" has a right to be a US citizen?