Should we have run from Somalia?

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ThePresence

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
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Obviously, I just watched Black Hawk Down. I'm not familiar with the events that took place, besides from what the movie depicted. From what I gather, we went into the midst of a civil war because of the hunger that the warlords were causing. 19 US soldiers were killed. So why did we run? Why did we not hit back in force? 2 weeks after the incident, US forces were pulled by Clinton. Why?
 
ThePresence

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
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Originally posted by: pulse8
Because even the people we were trying to help didn't want us there?
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I did not know that. The movie certainly shows something else.

 
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pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
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Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: pulse8
Because even the people we were trying to help didn't want us there?
Click to expand...
I did not know that. The movie certainly shows something else.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you watched Black Hawk Down? ;) :p
 
ThePresence

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
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Originally posted by: pulse8
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: pulse8
Because even the people we were trying to help didn't want us there?
Click to expand...
I did not know that. The movie certainly shows something else.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you watched Black Hawk Down? ;) :p
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Yep, and I saw hundreds of Somalis cheering on the US forces as they got to safety.
 
F

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
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Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: pulse8
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: pulse8
Because even the people we were trying to help didn't want us there?
Click to expand...
I did not know that. The movie certainly shows something else.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you watched Black Hawk Down? ;) :p
Click to expand...
Yep, and I saw hundreds of Somalis cheering on the US forces as they got to safety.
Click to expand...
Because he didn't want another political black eye resulting from americans watching more US soldiers' bodies being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu. Pure politics.

Additionally, he claimed to have been unaware of the operation that is the story of Black Hawk Down.....a complete fabrication. Again to avoid political fallout.

Fausto

 
P

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
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Yep, and I saw hundreds of Somalis cheering on the US forces as they got to safety.
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From what I've heard from people who've seen the movie and read the original articles, that didn't happen. It was a cinematic tool.
 
Mani

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: ThePresence
Obviously, I just watched Black Hawk Down. I'm not familiar with the events that took place, besides from what the movie depicted. From what I gather, we went into the midst of a civil war because of the hunger that the warlords were causing. 19 US soldiers were killed. So why did we run? Why did we not hit back in force? 2 weeks after the incident, US forces were pulled by Clinton. Why?
Click to expand...

Popular support was almost nonexistent for us being there, it would have been political suicide to drag it out longer.
 
J

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
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Something that was supposed to create a noteworthy bullet in Clinton's Legacy instead created a black mark. Rather than risk another black mark or ten (combined with the lack of support from his chiefs and the American people) persuaded Clinton to pull in his foreign policy reigns on that wild horse.
 
ThePresence

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
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81
Originally posted by: pulse8
Yep, and I saw hundreds of Somalis cheering on the US forces as they got to safety.
Click to expand...
From what I've heard from people who've seen the movie and read the original articles, that didn't happen. It was a cinematic tool.
Click to expand...
Like I said, my entire knowledge (or lack) of the operation is from the movie. I dont remember it well enough.

 
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StattlichPassat

Banned
Jan 9, 2002
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So why did we run? Why did we not hit back in force? 2 weeks after the incident, US forces were pulled by Clinton. Why?
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Because Clinton is a pussy and ran away with his tail between his legs.
rolleye.gif
 
R

rutchtkim

Golden Member
Aug 2, 2001
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the whole mission was a successful failure. no point in going back in when our forces got what they wanted (the warlords). Also, no point in bombing them, they are poor as it is
 
Z

zeruty

Platinum Member
Jan 17, 2000
2,276
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I'm only 19 now, so I was much younger when those events took place, so I obviously dont remember them veryw ell...
but what I saw in black hawk down, the citizens of somalia were just beating our people down, they didnt want our help (which is really stupid of them) and because of what they did they dont deserve our help, but if I had been in charge I would have brought some bombers into the equation as payback for what they did to us
 
A

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
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The worst aspect about the immediate withdrawal from Somalia was that it said to any and all potential adversaries that if you manage to kill a few American soldiers, we will turn tail and run away. That impression emboldened our enemies and indirectly led to September 11th, among other events (U.S.S. Cole, for instance).
 
J

justint

Banned
Dec 6, 1999
1,429
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DO NOT BASE YOUR VIEW OF WHAT HAPPENED IN SOMALIA ON A MOVIE!!!!!

BLACK HAWK DOWN IS ENTERTAINMENT!!! NOT REALITY!!!

The movie I am sure glossed over many parts of the events there and the complexities of the situation. The actual operation was a clusturfuck. The Rangers and Delta Force did not coordinate or even tell the UN Forces or the quick reaction force about the raid. This was extrodinarily foolish as the only armor including tanks and APC's were in the hands of the Pakistanis after the US administration decided not to send in armor and attack helicopters to back up the UN and US forces. It took the Pakistanis a while to get organized for a rescue mission, meanwhile the US forces were greatly outnumbered and fighting against a force of thousands of the best urban guerilla fighters in the world on thier home turf. It is a testament to thier training and resolve that only 18 were killed with hundreds if not thousands of Somalis killed.

Also, the whole country of Somalia was not against us. One region of the city held by Aideeds clan was against us. It's kind of like the police rolling into gang terrirtory in the middle of a riot with no backup. Stupid Stupid Stupid. Aideed and his men had previously massacred 24 Pakistani peacekeepers leading to the whole manhunt for him to begin. Unfortunately, another tragic mistake on the part of US forces occurred several months before the incidents in the movie. Clan elders from Aideeds faction were meeting in a house to come up with a political solution to the problem including possibbly a de-miltatirization and coup against Aideed who had managed to turn the whole world against them. US forces using helicopters basically destroyed the house killing those leaders and many civilians. That piece of bad intelligence really screwed us over leading to a sea of hatred when we conducted the raid in October 1993. There is a lot more info, you can read the official news accounts and UN and US reports about it for more.

That said, I think it was a big mistake to pull out.

1. It sent a message to the world that the United States could be easily beaten and cowed. Never show weakness like that.

2. It left Somalia in continued chaos. Chaos is a breeding ground for all sorts of criminal and terrorist interests that threaten US and world interests in general.

 
911paramedic

911paramedic

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2002
9,448
1
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Read the book.

I have a medic friend that is with a pararescue team out of Nellis AFB. He told me about the book about four years ago and said it was very true, his friend was there and told him about it. I watched the movie and thought they did a pretty good job with it but you can only get so much across when you make a two hour movie for the general population.

Read the book.
 
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Phuz

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2000
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It left Somalia in continued chaos. Chaos is a breeding ground for all sorts of criminal and terrorist interests that threaten US and world interests in general.
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Not really... regardless of the success of U.S. intervention, there is no way that a "proper way of life" could be instated into that country. It is a different reality, and sure it may be an injust one.. but like most circumstances like these, the U.S. thought it could help.. when it couldn't.

This, IMO, is also why they pulled out.


 
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