Should we apologize for slavery?

[spittledip]

I have to say that an apology is meaningless b/c people who are living now are not responsible for the past. However, as I was saying before, there should be a token of acknowledgment of past wrongs and continued wrongs as well as a promise of working toward unity symbolized in D.C by a museum or something. I think that a museum might be a great way for blacks and whites and others to experience and release the past if done properly. I also think that DNA testing to determine country and tribe of origin is still a good idea. Handouts are not a good idea.

Just b/c something may happen often in the history of mankind does not mean that it is ok and that nothing should be done to atone for it. All wrongs that can be atoned for in some way should be.

 

[imported_Lothar]

I thought Bill Clinton already apologized for this, or am I thinking about something else?

I support an official government apology(if it hasn't already been done), but not reparations.
The idea of reparations is nothing but complete nonsense.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: Lothar
I thought Bill Clinton already apologized for this, or am I thinking about something else?

I support an official government apology(if it hasn't already been done), but not reparations.
The idea of reparations is nothing but complete nonsense.

No, if you would have read my post or posts you would know that. Bill Clinton never apologized for slavery in the U.S. Bill Clinton gave an official apology for the 40 year Syphilis study by the gorvenment on black men.
Tuskegee Syphilis Study

 

[imported_Lothar]

Ok, apologize but no reparations.
Do you agree?

If you don't, what exactly is reparations going to solve?

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: Lothar
Ok, apologize but no reparations.
Do you agree?

If you don't, what exactly is reparations going to solve?

I am not really sure about the reparations. I am not sure what they would be or who would get them. If i had to say yes or no i would have to say NO. Who would pay for them....ME?

Then again, if i got a letter in the mail saying a reparations bill was passed, return this form to get you money.......I CANT say i WOULDNT send that form in. I really dont have a NEED for the money though right now.. My first cousin is half Native (Dakota)n HE and his sisters all got around 110K at their 18th birthday., their mother gets a monthly "stipend" They wasted it. 🙁 As long as your 1/4 Native and you can prove it you can get that money. My Grandmother was fullblooded (Blackfoot) Im not sure where to start looking for the records but i havent really thought about chasing down that money that i KNOW i could get, so i doubt i would be screaming and "hooo haaaing" for reparations in the form of money. I think (know) reparations in the form of money would only piss off white people. But i TRULY believe that the only generation that has really had a semi-fair chance in america would be those who were born after the civil-rights movement. That would be my generations and NOT my mothers. Also I believe that the first people that may have a real true fair chance will be those born after both my parents (jim crow segregation era) and the racist people on the other side die and are burried. The entire talk and notion of reparations are from those that were during the civil rights movement......until they die you will hear about it.
(off topic)
But I am a different type of character: I think that black people (currently) would be better off in Africa. All black people should make their pilgrimage. All black people should also sponsor kids (It only cost 67 cents a day) Everyone should take a DNA test and see where they are from...They should then plan to retire there. Contrary to what white people think, most blacks (Im sure a high % in the 90's) have NO IDEA where they come from in Africa other than "The Slave Coast" and thats only if they paid attention in school. I have no idea. Cheap DNA testing is fairly new. A little while ago Ghana would offer citizenship to any and all black Americans....They stopped doing that.

 

[Luthien]

I don't think it's an apology your talking about since that has already been given. Should reword the title to pecuniary apology? I would have to say no, since slavery wasnt specific to any people. Slavery involving likely every race and color has been going on all throughout history.

 

[spittledip]

That whole back to Africa thing is really off the wall. Black Americans would not fit into any of the African cultures very well and they are already established here. Reparation in terms of money is foolishness. There is no way to figure out reparations. A symbolic gesture is what is needed.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: spittledip
That whole back to Africa thing is really off the wall. Black Americans would not fit into any of the African cultures very well and they are already established here. Reparation in terms of money is foolishness. There is no way to figure out reparations. A symbolic gesture is what is needed.

I beg to differ. I have been there many times, and just got back from a 6 week trip. There are many places where we fit right in. And from what i expirienced Black Africans are very happy to see Black Americans. While normally i would perfer to live in a mixed (race) neighborhood, living around 99% Black people in a place that is NOT a ghetto is one of my better expiriences in life. Its very hard to get that in America. And for the most part Americans are business minded, It only took me 3 days to see we could have a business with simply a playstation 2 and FIFA 2007 in a room the size of a kitchen. This setup makes about as much money in one day as a ditch digger or common laborer would make in a month (In Ethiopia). Im now shipping 2 more PS2's and Multitaps to my in-laws to rake in the dough. I think any black american or any american for that matter could make it in a modern African city with just a few thousand dollars. Maybe im being overly optimistic but i saw one guy making tons of money selling RING TONES and CELL PHONE GAMES their friend sent them from the U.S. He only had like 30 games..........I got a CD with like 2500 Java cell phone games on it.1?....2?....3 Profit!

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: spittledip
That whole back to Africa thing is really off the wall. Black Americans would not fit into any of the African cultures very well and they are already established here. Reparation in terms of money is foolishness. There is no way to figure out reparations. A symbolic gesture is what is needed.

And from what i expirienced Black Africans are very happy to see Black Americans.!

They were happy to see your money. Go there with no money to offer and only your American points of views and American way of doing things and lets see how great things end up becoming.

 

[JS80]

Africa should apologize for creating slaves and selling them to the Dutch traders.
Egyptians should apologize for jewish slavery 5000 years ago.

 

[kingtas]

Sure, Apologize to black people for slavery and apologize to American Indians for taking their land. Then put an end to affirmitive action and start collecting taxes. Then maybe we can move on.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: spittledip
That whole back to Africa thing is really off the wall. Black Americans would not fit into any of the African cultures very well and they are already established here. Reparation in terms of money is foolishness. There is no way to figure out reparations. A symbolic gesture is what is needed.

And from what i expirienced Black Africans are very happy to see Black Americans.!

They were happy to see your money. Go there with no money to offer and only your American points of views and American way of doing things and lets see how great things end up becoming.

Very untrue. You know nothing about African people if you say so, and I am ready to bet you have never been to any African country.

After traveling extensively in Eastern, Western and Southern African countries I was shocked by what they were happy to do to help me.

African people helped and supported me in any possible way you can imagine, from inviting me for a dinner that would cost them more than what they usually spent in a month for eating, to saving my life multiple times when my car stopped working in the middle of a freaking desert.

They always, and I mean always, accept NO MONEY. No matter how much money I was offering. We once had a serious trouble with a car in a very remote desert area. We called for help on a VHF radio and a few hours later a caravan of 3 pick-ups reached us, with material to repair the car, basically saving our lives. They rejected any offer to pay them. Instead they camped with us for the night, cooked a delicious meal they shared with us and only accepted a few beers in exchange for basically saving our ass.

I'll tell you more. A friend of mine who was traveling with me lost in Zambia his travel purse with his passport inside it. He received it (in Europe) by mail 4 months later including all the money, both local money and US dollars, probably more money than the guy who picked it up will see in 10 years. Together came a letter apologizing for deducting the money for the shipping expenses.

If there is something African people were not interested in, that was in my experience money. With the notable exception of corrupt military personnel at a few border posts in Malawi and Zimbabwe.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: spittledip
That whole back to Africa thing is really off the wall. Black Americans would not fit into any of the African cultures very well and they are already established here. Reparation in terms of money is foolishness. There is no way to figure out reparations. A symbolic gesture is what is needed.

I beg to differ. I have been there many times, and just got back from a 6 week trip. There are many places where we fit right in. And from what i expirienced Black Africans are very happy to see Black Americans. While normally i would perfer to live in a mixed (race) neighborhood, living around 99% Black people in a place that is NOT a ghetto is one of my better expiriences in life. Its very hard to get that in America. And for the most part Americans are business minded, It only took me 3 days to see we could have a business with simply a playstation 2 and FIFA 2007 in a room the size of a kitchen. This setup makes about as much money in one day as a ditch digger or common laborer would make in a month (In Ethiopia). Im now shipping 2 more PS2's and Multitaps to my in-laws to rake in the dough. I think any black american or any american for that matter could make it in a modern African city with just a few thousand dollars. Maybe im being overly optimistic but i saw one guy making tons of money selling RING TONES and CELL PHONE GAMES their friend sent them from the U.S. He only had like 30 games..........I got a CD with like 2500 Java cell phone games on it.1?....2?....3 Profit!

Sounds very interesting.

If I was black I would go too.

Have you ever read about of those micor-enterprise loan companies? (small loans, often less $100 and it's enough to get businesses started). Might be something to try over ther as well.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: spittledip
That whole back to Africa thing is really off the wall. Black Americans would not fit into any of the African cultures very well and they are already established here. Reparation in terms of money is foolishness. There is no way to figure out reparations. A symbolic gesture is what is needed.

And from what i expirienced Black Africans are very happy to see Black Americans.!

They were happy to see your money. Go there with no money to offer and only your American points of views and American way of doing things and lets see how great things end up becoming.

Very untrue. You know nothing about African people if you say so, and I am ready to bet you have never been to any African country.

After traveling extensively in Eastern, Western and Southern African countries I was shocked by what they were happy to do to help me.

African people helped and supported me in any possible way you can imagine, from inviting me for a dinner that would cost them more than what they usually spent in a month for eating, to saving my life multiple times when my car stopped working in the middle of a freaking desert.

They always, and I mean always, accept NO MONEY. No matter how much money I was offering. We once had a serious trouble with a car in a very remote desert area. We called for help on a VHF radio and a few hours later a caravan of 3 pick-ups reached us, with material to repair the car, basically saving our lives. They rejected any offer to pay them. Instead they camped with us for the night, cooked a delicious meal they shared with us and only accepted a few beers in exchange for basically saving our ass.

I'll tell you more. A friend of mine who was traveling with me lost in Zambia his travel purse with his passport inside it. He received it (in Europe) by mail 4 months later including all the money, both local money and US dollars, probably more money than the guy who picked it up will see in 10 years. Together came a letter apologizing for deducting the money for the shipping expenses.

If there is something African people were not interested in, that was in my experience money. With the notable exception of corrupt military personnel at a few border posts in Malawi and Zimbabwe.

Interesting.

I've met many Africans in Europe (mostly France/Paris). Very nice, gentle peaceful friendly type people.

Fern

 

[spittledip]

The thing about "going back to Africa" is that most Blacks in America are comfortable here, although it could be better. The idea of having to start over somewhere else is not realistic for most. For the more adventurous, maybe. But it is a whole different world over there.. although not as different as it once was. This is not a solution for the vast majority, and is often put up as an idea by racist whites who don't want to deal with the problems.

 

[Keblerelf04]

Wouldn't it be HILARIOUS if Obama won the presidency and was forced to apologize for the slavery that happened centuries ago...sorry I find that extremely funny, after all he is representing the government while he is in office, not the black race, so it is a possibility.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
How about this? we offer an apology and then as reparations we offer anyone who asks for it a free one way ticket to the African nation of their choice.
?We?re sorry that your ancestors were taken out of Africa against their will, therefore we would like to offer you a chance to return to the country of your ancestry.?

Isn't it interesting that the people that shout the loudest "You broke it; you fix it," as justification for remaining in Iraq are also the quickest to disavow that argument when it comes to African Americans and slavery?

The 13th Amendment may have abolished slavery, but the after-effects are very real and very negative. It's absurd and incredibly self-serving to think there merely ceasing to do horrible things to blacks is the only responsibility whites have.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
How about this? we offer an apology and then as reparations we offer anyone who asks for it a free one way ticket to the African nation of their choice.
?We?re sorry that your ancestors were taken out of Africa against their will, therefore we would like to offer you a chance to return to the country of your ancestry.?

Isn't it interesting that the people that shout the loudest "You broke it; you fix it," as justification for remaining in Iraq are also the quickest to disavow that argument when it comes to African Americans and slavery?

The 13th Amendment may have abolished slavery, but the after-effects are very real and very negative. It's absurd and incredibly self-serving to think there merely ceasing to do horrible things to blacks is the only responsibility whites have.

What are the after effects that are very real and very negative? Also, to think that whites just simply stopped the practice of slavery and racism is horribly ignorant of history. I'm sure you didn't mean it like that but thats the way it sounds.

 

[Keblerelf04]

"It's absurd and incredibly self-serving to think there merely ceasing to do horrible things to blacks is the only responsibility whites have."

is it because im white?

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
How about this? we offer an apology and then as reparations we offer anyone who asks for it a free one way ticket to the African nation of their choice.
?We?re sorry that your ancestors were taken out of Africa against their will, therefore we would like to offer you a chance to return to the country of your ancestry.?

Isn't it interesting that the people that shout the loudest "You broke it; you fix it," as justification for remaining in Iraq are also the quickest to disavow that argument when it comes to African Americans and slavery?

The 13th Amendment may have abolished slavery, but the after-effects are very real and very negative. It's absurd and incredibly self-serving to think there merely ceasing to do horrible things to blacks is the only responsibility whites have.

What are the after effects that are very real and very negative? Also, to think that whites just simply stopped the practice of slavery and racism is horribly ignorant of history. I'm sure you didn't mean it like that but thats the way it sounds.

i think he means the after-effects are racism. Racism is the legacy of slavery that has lasted so long. Black people were not allowed to intergrate into the society like most other immigrants that come here. The racist legacy of slavery is why my parents couldnt go to school with other folks parents in this board, and also couldnt work with them. Read about fair housing laws and notice why most black people (poor, working, and middle class) all live in the same place.....I cant afford a house in the suburbs (so i dont know what real estate agencies. currently do) but in the past black people were geared TOWARD black neighborhoods and AWAY from white ones.

Encyclopaedia Britannica: Segregation

In spite of the gains made by blacks in jobs and education through the Civil Rights movement, patterns of housing segregation still persist in the cities of the United States. The Fair Housing Act passed by Congress in 1968 made residential segregation a federal offense. But this law applies only when local laws are used to create or maintain segregated neighborhoods. In most cities of the United States, segregation results from factors other than local laws, and, for this reason, clear patterns of segregated housing continue to exist.

Black neighborhoods expanded dramatically in size in such cities as Detroit, Cleveland, and Chicago. As this expansion took place, other residents moved out, often to the suburbs, and the cities continued to be racially divided by neighborhoods. This persistence of racially concentrated housing is called de facto segregation, or simply segregation in fact. These housing patterns are not based on law and are, therefore, quite difficult to combat.

Two of the tactics used to preserve residential segregation in the United States are redlining and steering. Redlining is a device used by banks. It means the withholding of home-loan funding and insurance from low-income neighborhoods. Steering is a tactic of real estate agencies. Blacks who want to buy homes are often steered away from white neighborhoods and directed instead to black or mixed neighborhoods to look at housing. Although illegal, steering is difficult to prove.

This is all "very real and very negative."
And I really think the ball has always been in white peoples court to simply forget about the past. Black people piss and moan about the past but we didnt create racist laws against whites, or create terrorist groups(kkk) to go out and lynch whites / burn churches, etc after slavery (our gangs kill each other). They just kept going with the BS and have never really given it up....from the 1800's till the 70's. Think of other places around the world where oppressed groups have actually taken up arms, black people in American have never really done that. As soon as slaves were set free they worked for their slave masters!

Anyway, i dont know why this even needs to be explained. It would be funny to see Obama as the 'first black president' apologize for slavery.

 

[spittledip]

To take Beyoku's response to an every day level: a black couple my wife and I know from church told my wife about her experiences looking for a church to attend when they moved in to the area. One church she called up to get times for the service on Sunday. A woman answered the phone. After asking about times for services, the woman replied, "I think you have the wrong church- there is another church of the same name." I can't remember the other situation, but it was very similar. What I am trying to point out here is that these things happen today- an attempt to keep blacks and whites separate and different. I dont think it is an attempt to keep Blacks down, i think it is just a desire to keep separate due to whatever. At any rate, it is discrimination all the same. And, this type of thing happens at all levels of our society. So, you tell people to get over it, but when it is being thrown in their faces, that makes it kinda difficult to get over.

To Beyoku- the reason why it needs to be explained is b/c whites and blacks are very separate in their experiences. I think there might be an assumption on the part of lots of white people that blacks are dealing with primarily the same stuff they are and little extra.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: kingtas
Sure, Apologize to black people for slavery and apologize to American Indians for taking their land. Then put an end to affirmitive action and start collecting taxes. Then maybe we can move on.

There's very little cost in giving an official apology. We should do it. I also think there should be a monument to the victim of slavery and genocide (of Native Americans) in Washington DC. But that's about it. This is the 21st century.