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Should the superdeligates go for Sanders?

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Fanatical Meat

Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
17,403
136
No Hillary had more votes, its the same question as Trump how would you possibly explain and excite voters when their majority choice is over turned by convention shenanigans.
 
theeedude

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Sanders lost at the polls. Why should super-delegates overrule the voters?
If he won at the polls and super-delegates gave the nomination to Hillary, the same blogger would be throwing a shit fit of epic proportions.
 
A

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,499
560
126
No I don't think he should. Yes Hillary had more votes, she as we now see also had help from the Democratic Committee to achieve those votes. Would she have won anyway? Probably. But denying that Bernie lost votes do to the bias that the committee disingenuous.
 
M

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,749
6,763
126
Let me clarify:

The theme of the OP link was that Hillary will lose to Trump if she is the nominee. The question as to whether the delegates should switch was in the blog title. I am not asking whether they will switch but if the reasons they should switch, that she will lose to Trump, as explained by the article is true or not. "They will not switch and that will mean Trump wins." I am asking if that is what is going to happen. Are Democrats committing suicide? Haven't they already? Did they f themselves by voting Clinton. Didn't they pick the greater of two evils? I think they did. I think big money wanted Clinton and got their way as they always will. I think democracy is dead and I think Democrats more than anybody else killed it by taking money from the rich. And I want them to pay for it. Sorry. The need for change has outstripped the ability of people to consciously evolve to meet it. That spells disaster in my opinion. We are the disaster. We made our bed and now its time to lie in it.
 
M

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,749
6,763
126
Fanatical Meat said:
No Hillary had more votes, its the same question as Trump how would you possibly explain and excite voters when their majority choice is over turned by convention shenanigans.
Click to expand...

senseamp said:
Sanders lost at the polls. Why should super-delegates overrule the voters?
If he won at the polls and super-delegates gave the nomination to Hillary, the same blogger would be throwing a shit fit of epic proportions.
Click to expand...

Fanatical Meat said:
My answer stands unchanged.
Click to expand...

Why, shouldn't the fact that Hillary will lose and Sanders would win mean she should swallow her ambition to save the country? What is more important to her, her ego or the country?
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,749
46,520
136
senseamp said:
Sanders lost at the polls. Why should super-delegates overrule the voters?
If he won at the polls and super-delegates gave the nomination to Hillary, the same blogger would be throwing a shit fit of epic proportions.
Click to expand...

Most of the people complaining about this have argued out of both sides of their mouths. It's gone from super delegates are undemocratic to they should have lined up behind Sanders even though he lost the popular vote and pledged delegates.
 
Fanatical Meat

Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
17,403
136
Moonbeam said:
Why, shouldn't the fact that Hillary will lose and Sanders would win mean she should swallow her ambition to save the country? What is more important to her, her ego or the country?
Click to expand...

There's a lot of speculation here. What makes anyone think Bernie would be able to get more votes, he already had a chance and Hillary out performed him plus add that he was selected against the will of the voters by using convention delegate shenanigans?
 
M

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,749
6,763
126
TheGardener said:
I find that professor's blog only slightly more coherent than Moonbeam's post.
Click to expand...

Please, Gardener, try to see that as a person so far advanced over the ordinary mindset of average and sub-average people like yourself, that I experience that fact of a constant basis and am no more fazed by your incomprehension than I am by the busyness of ants. It is of the nature of self hating peons that they set their sights on Kings.

Naturally, I'm kidding. You just make me sad. Get up out of the mud please. You will feel better as a real man.
 
M

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,749
6,763
126
Fanatical Meat said:
There's a lot of speculation here. What makes anyone think Bernie would be able to get more votes, he already had a chance and Hillary out performed him plus add that he was selected against the will of the voters by using convention delegate shenanigans?
Click to expand...

Yes, a lot of speculation and my question wasn't about the delegates but about the accuracy of the speculation. Is the rational put forward by the blogger an accurate assessment of reality? I fear it is.
 
C

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Moonbeam said:
Let me clarify:

The theme of the OP link was that Hillary will lose to Trump if she is the nominee. The question as to whether the delegates should switch was in the blog title. I am not asking whether they will switch but if the reasons they should switch, that she will lose to Trump, as explained by the article is true or not. "They will not switch and that will mean Trump wins." I am asking if that is what is going to happen. Are Democrats committing suicide? Haven't they already? Did they f themselves by voting Clinton. Didn't they pick the greater of two evils? I think they did. I think big money wanted Clinton and got their way as they always will. I think democracy is dead and I think Democrats more than anybody else killed it by taking money from the rich. And I want them to pay for it. Sorry. The need for change has outstripped the ability of people to consciously evolve to meet it. That spells disaster in my opinion. We are the disaster. We made our bed and now its time to lie in it.
Click to expand...

What are you saying? The primaries are a waste of time? Democracy is dead because the person the majority of people voted to be the nominee will be the nominee?

It's just another article from another butt-hurt Sanders supporter who cannot understand that he and his views are not the center of the universe. This isn't a new argument, it's been an argument made by the devout Sanders supporters for months. But just because some people believe it to be true, doesn't mean that it is true.
 
M

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,749
6,763
126
cubby1223 said:
What are you saying? The primaries are a waste of time? Democracy is dead because the person the majority of people voted to be the nominee will be the nominee?

It's just another article from another butt-hurt Sanders supporter who cannot understand that he and his views are not the center of the universe. This isn't a new argument, it's been an argument made by the devout Sanders supporters for months. But just because some people believe it to be true, doesn't mean that it is true.
Click to expand...

cubby1223 said:
"Democracy is dead because not enough people think exactly as I do!"
Click to expand...

Would you mind reading the link and seeing if you can say something intelligent.
 
L

leper84

Senior member
Dec 29, 2011
989
29
86
Bernie is weak kneed. Between that and stabbing his supporters in the back, he would get steamrolled by Trump. Not the wisest move for the DNC to pull.
 
C

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
Moonbeam said:
Why, shouldn't the fact that Hillary will lose and Sanders would win mean she should swallow her ambition to save the country? What is more important to her, her ego or the country?
Click to expand...

Does this have to be stated, even rhetorically? Even Dems know the answer to that (just for any especially delusional Dems, that correct answer is quite obviously ego), it's why so many dislike Her even in an election year. It's the same reason why you hear so much head nodding mantra about Trump 'racist, misogynist, xenophobe, lions and tigers and bears oh my!'. Their chosen one is so unappealing, they elected a zero experience guy the last time she ran whose sole qualifications were 1.) wasn't white, 2.) could read a teleprompter well, 3.) wasn't Billary, and this time, they need to vilify the opposition to take attention away from their own horrible candidate.

Bernie should have got up there tonight and demanded to be nominated. He would have had the will of the Dem (and Independent, and a good amount of Rep) people behind him, the Establishment-Dem would have looked even more crooked than they already are continuing on with Crooked Billary.
 
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Fenixgoon

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
33,307
12,876
136
While I think the author has a fairly reasonable argument - that the distaste of hillary as an establishment figure is so great that trump will win as an 'outsider' - my hope and belief is that people will see that despite trumps anti-establishment appearance, he is so utterly clueless on nearly every manner of government that he couldn't possibly be a better choice than hillary.

that being said - i'd vote sanders if i could. i think he represents a true ideological shift towards a better america. hillary i see as more of the same. trump is a trainwreck disaster of unfathomable proportions waiting to happen.
 
A

AreaAffect

Member
Jul 10, 2016
39
0
66
Londo_Jowo said:
I just wonder how many Bernie supporters will choose to vote 3rd party or not vote at all. I suspect this upcoming election will be determined by voter turnout.
Click to expand...

I am a centrist and not a member of any party. I would vote for Sanders if I could - you have to get past his rhetoric about socialist this and that - it would *never* happen (regardless if you think it should or should not, just a fact). What I believe though is Sanders would NOT get us into another war abroad which I am certain with Hillary OR Trump we will have a real shooting war within 12-24 months of either of their inauguration. Hillary votes for Iraq and Afghanistan, she supported the surge in Iraq by Bush and the surge in Afghanistan by Obama. Trump has come out and said Iraq was a disaster many times - but he didn't say he wouldn't have done it, he would have done it "differently". So we know both Hillary and Trump are war mongers. They will send Americans to fight and die to advance corporate interests... I don't think Bernie would do this.
 
A

AreaAffect

Member
Jul 10, 2016
39
0
66
Fenixgoon said:
While I think the author has a fairly reasonable argument - that the distaste of hillary as an establishment figure is so great that trump will win as an 'outsider' - my hope and belief is that people will see that despite trumps anti-establishment appearance, he is so utterly clueless on nearly every manner of government that he couldn't possibly be a better choice than hillary.

that being said - i'd vote sanders if i could. i think he represents a true ideological shift towards a better america. hillary i see as more of the same. trump is a trainwreck disaster of unfathomable proportions waiting to happen.
Click to expand...

I agree, Trump will win. The media can spin it all they want - the truth is, Trump polls well with - just about everyone (a scary, scary thought). The media says blacks don't like him, hispanics don't like him, young whites don't like him. I just don't see that in the last year. I see people in and around my work and social circles who basically ARE those groups and who support Trump.

I mean for god sakes the guy polls well in NY and NJ - that should tell you something.

I would vote for Sanders but it's too late for that.
 
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