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Should the starting salary for a teacher be $60,000?

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hellod9 said:
Most teachers are well meaning and hard working. However, they get ground down by the situation they are in. I know someone who teaches in an inner city school in Sacramento. She recently told me she does the "bare minimum." Why? Because even when she works her butt off, she doesn't get results. I don't think she knows how. She doesn't lack work ethic. She's relatively smart. She's well educated. But she's unhappy, and feels incredibly guilty about her situation.
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Then tell her to quit, because she already technically has, instead of not contributing anything further she just gave up and no one is asking her to leave. That shit does not fly in most companies. Why should a teacher be allowed to just give up and still get paid?
 
BoberFett said:
shitty teachers.
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How do you determine who the shitty teachers are? No Child Left Behind has proven that test scores are not the answer, especially when some good teachers aren't going to be able to get inner city kids to magically have awesome scores.
 
Most of what I leaned in Highschool was just math. Most of the other subjects like biology and social studies were worthless for anything. Gym was a waste of time. Since you can graduate high school with a D average, what is the point? I probably learned something, but I dont know what that was. It kind of went by in a blur.

You can learn what you need just by a couple of years at a community college. Just skip highschool. All you really need is some courses in math and english. The rest is just rounding courses. Art, Gym, Band, Choir, is just a waste of time. Only about 2 or 3 hours of school is even worth it.
 
Deeko said:
Or maybe you get people that could be good, smart teachers that otherwise go into another field that pays better. We can have this cutesy altruistic view all we want, but the fact is, people want to make money for what they do, and if someone is smart enough to make good money as an engineer, researcher, or similar, regardless of their desire to help people, many of them will choose those other fields. Maybe if teaching paid more, those guys would choose to teach instead, and be very good at it.



Agreed.
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NO your vision is blurred by $$$ signs . A true calling is not attacted to $$$ signs as they know the only way for them is to work in the field they adore. $$$ has little effect on them as the measure success differantly than you do . Its all a matter of perspective.
 
I can't speak on behalf of the classes but I know a couple Sacramento teachers and I wouldn't want them teaching my kids. There's something wrong over there. They keep telling me though that they are some of the highest paid teachers. Not sure if that's in CA or the USA though. They take these courses over the internet or something and get 5% raises up to a cap which you can pretty much reach within a couple years of teaching.
 
Infohawk said:
How do you determine who the shitty teachers are? No Child Left Behind has proven that test scores are not the answer, especially when some good teachers aren't going to be able to get inner city kids to magically have awesome scores.
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I was hoping for such a post. I couldn't read till 4th grade . 1 teacher a true teacher . set her teaching agenda up for one pupil in here class . She seen my problem and attacked it from the inside out . She read aloud a book she felt would touch me to the whole class 43 students when she was done . The book she read to us . My side of the mountain . I owe her my life and I love her dearly. I knew what she did right after she finished the book. I was reading good after 1 week and haven't stopped reading religiously in studies I find interesting. I would happily debate professors in the studies I like and likely do very well .
 
Nemesis 1 said:
NO your vision is blurred by $$$ signs . A true calling is not attacted to $$$ signs as they know the only way for them is to work in the field they adore. $$$ has little effect on them as the measure success differantly than you do . Its all a matter of perspective.
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Again - that's a cute fantasy world, but not reality. If you think there aren't people in technical/professional fields that would make good teachers, that don't do it because its not their "calling" and not because of the pay, you're wrong. Then again, you also said that 90% of teachers are just failures in real fields, so you don't even believe what you're saying here anyway.

Its obvious that its not worth having a discussion with you on this topic, since you don't know what you're talking about and contradict yourself, therefore, I will take my leave of you. Ta ta.
 
Deeko said:
Again - that's a cute fantasy world, but not reality. If you think there aren't people in technical/professional fields that would make good teachers, that don't do it because its not their "calling" and not because of the pay, you're wrong. Then again, you also said that 90% of teachers are just failures in real fields, so you don't even believe what you're saying here anyway.

Its obvious that its not worth having a discussion with you on this topic, since you don't know what you're talking about and contradict yourself, therefore, I will take my leave of you. Ta ta.
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Mister lifer with all the answers . So why is our nation failing with all you highly educated people running it .
 
Nemesis 1 said:
NO your vision is blurred by $$$ signs . A true calling is not attacted to $$$ signs as they know the only way for them is to work in the field they adore. $$$ has little effect on them as the measure success differantly than you do . Its all a matter of perspective.
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Why does this logic apply to teachers, but not to executives who you need to pay multiplies beyond what they could ever spend to get good ones?

Paying extra over a certain point won't attract more skill this has more or less been proven for all fields, but teachers are far below that point. You need something besides "the calling" to decide to be a teacher in this current climate of how teachers are treated. You need to be either naive or desperate.
 
AyashiKaibutsu said:
Why does this logic apply to teachers, but not to executives who you need to pay multiplies beyond what they could ever spend to get good ones?

Paying extra over a certain point won't attract more skill this has more or less been proven for all fields, but teachers are far below that point. You need something besides "the calling" to decide to be a teacher in this current climate of how teachers are treated. You need to be either naive or desperate.
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I am neither . Nice attack tho . You should have thought it out better. The School system has FAIED . WHAT caused it ?
 
hellod9 said:
Most teachers are well meaning and hard working. However, they get ground down by the situation they are in. I know someone who teaches in an inner city school in Sacramento. She recently told me she does the "bare minimum." Why? Because even when she works her butt off, she doesn't get results. I don't think she knows how. She doesn't lack work ethic. She's relatively smart. She's well educated. But she's unhappy, and feels incredibly guilty about her situation.
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The teachers that influenced me most over the years never knew the impact they had on my life...and I'm glad they never gave up. Human beings are curious creatures...perhaps her guilt is justified.
 
woolfe9999 said:
I agree with you.

I think starting salaries should be about where they are ~$50,000, more or less depending on the cost of living in the particular state/area. Over time, I could see the salaries ranging from $50,000-$120,000, with $120,000 being for fantasic teachers and $50,000 being for mediocre ones, with poor teachers getting canned. The tradeoff presented to the union is, more potential pay for less long term job security.

I suspect that raising salaries across the board without linking it to merit produces disappointing results.
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:thumbsup:

Of course, this will never happen. It makes too much sense. The US is a bizarre country, hell-bent on self-destruction. 🙁
 
MomentsofSanity said:
If you are referring to me, my statement had little to do with spelling and grammar.
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Well than what is it you were referring to . Beings I see it was you I quoted. Befor you try to remove a sliver from my eyes remove the log from yours . Your quote

Clearly your previous educators shoud be imprioned for life.
 
BoberFett said:
:thumbsup:

Of course, this will never happen. It makes too much sense. The US is a bizarre country, hell-bent on self-destruction. 🙁
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To be fair, measuring teacher performance objectively is very tricky and is a major sticking point for the idea of merit-based pay. If you base it on standardized test scores, they will just teach the test and nothing else. Other methods can be too subjective. Likely a combination approach would work best but nothing is going to be perfect.
 
Nemesis 1 said:
90% of teachers failed at their choosen field . So they teach . Pay them accordingly . As failures. The school system already proven failure. Teachers whos students excel should get payed well. Does a GOOD teacher look for work in harlem . NOT a chance . FAIL FAIL FAIL

2 of my wifes sisters daughter are entering teaching . They been shielded from reality their whole lives and are clueless as to how Most Kids are today . I worry for them when reality sets in and they get into the classroom were they are confronted by daycare animals . These women are not ready for this reality.
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🙄

That is not even remotely true.
 
Nemesis 1 said:
I am neither . Nice attack tho . You should have thought it out better. The School system has FAIED . WHAT caused it ?
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I never attacked you. Nice try though. Some schools have failed; most likely not all failed schools have failed for the same reason. From the school my wife taught at last year, I can tell you that one failed/is failing because the administration is inept and doing insane things to play a numbers game with their students scores and their budgeting.

It's a school where you can make up 5 days of unexcused absences by attending one day of saturday school. Teachers have no options for disciplining children since the admin won't allow ISS/OSS since if students fail out the numbers look bad for them; forget about even considering expelling the extreme children. The school fires every first year teacher every year so they never have to pay for experienced teachers.
 
Standardized testing leads to cheating. Scandal after scandal.

I think there should be some link between taxes you pay, how your children perform, and how they do in College. On top of that if someone can't meet certain benchmarks they should be held back. It doesn't require standardized testing to see whether a 8th grader can read and write. I mean I'd love for there to be some kind of test with say 10,000 questions where you get tested on 10 at random but somehow I think people would still figure out a way to cheat on it. How do other countries deal with this?
 
I will teach the hell out of some kids for 60k a year. Don't even have to give me summers off, just allow me to yell and discipline(not hit) children and all will be good.
 
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