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Should the Government increase minimum wage?

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Good point. Didn't inflation go DOWN after the last minimum wage increase? If didn't effect the unemployment rate, either.

well, if it was below equilibrium, it wouldn't have done much now, would it have?

inflation is controlled by supply and demand of money, supply is controlled by the fed, demand should be unaffected or even increase a little, since although a smaller portion of people have money, they're more likely to spend it.


btw just because bad things didn't happen, doesn't mean it's not bad. it could just mean that we missed out on a better thing.
 
Those who said yes give me a warm and fuzzy feeling inside. It makes me want to grow my hair long and run through fields of wildflowers. Let's all gather round the fire and sing some songs people, feel the love.

Ok that was sarcasm if you didn't catch it. 😉

 


<< Those who said yes give me a warm and fuzzy feeling inside. It makes me want to grow my hair long and run through fields of wildflowers. Let's all gather round the fire and sing some songs people, feel the love.

Ok that was sarcasm if you didn't catch it. 😉 >>



Your post seems so ridiculous, but it captures some people's reality pretty well. LOL

If you want to feel warm and fuzzy, tip better. 🙂 No federal bill required.
 


<< In actuality this is really about those that have and don't want anyone else to get part of theirs, and those that have not and want to get better pay. Since this is a technology related board those that have- have enough to have access to it. Also those econo- classes are being taught by people who have, and it reinforces that they are in fact deemed worthy of their fee for making certain that we are all (those of us who go to college) are going to have to accept their way of thinking in order to pass the class and perpetuate this train of thought into our stratified society. I think minimum wage should be raised and I also think that executives should not get as much money as they do. There is better utility in having more with more than with one or two with most.

People always talk about being a team-oriented person while working for a company. I believe that if a group of people is going to be working as a team then they should get paid as a team. Also I really don't want to hear that some people have gifts and talents that make them better than someone else. All this really means is that there is a double standard and that one person should be valued more than another. When if it were not for all parties involved then the "leaders" wouldn't have anyone to lead. I find it amazing that we have so many advantages of technology and many other amenities in our lives, but still get paid according to millennia old traditions. Why? Because those that have do not want anyone else besides them to have anything- especially if they have to give up a little bit of comfort for things to advance into the future. Those that have are the ones that get to portray how history is written.

I am for a free economy, but does anyone really think that a CEO should make a couple hundred million dollars a year and his employees should make minimum wage. I see no honor in that. I also see no honor in a company (enron for example) milking their employees for everything they could get. Just goes to show how cold people are up at the top. If you don't think that people are cold when it comes to money then , well I am not really sure what to say.

I think Unions might be a good thing to bring about equality. But corrupt unions are not the way to go. Something with some honesty and integrity would be nice. >>


Space-saver post for later...I'm gonna reply to this whole thing 🙂
 


<<

<< In actuality this is really about those that have and don't want anyone else to get part of theirs, and those that have not and want to get better pay. Since this is a technology related board those that have- have enough to have access to it. Also those econo- classes are being taught by people who have, and it reinforces that they are in fact deemed worthy of their fee for making certain that we are all (those of us who go to college) are going to have to accept their way of thinking in order to pass the class and perpetuate this train of thought into our stratified society. I think minimum wage should be raised and I also think that executives should not get as much money as they do. There is better utility in having more with more than with one or two with most.

People always talk about being a team-oriented person while working for a company. I believe that if a group of people is going to be working as a team then they should get paid as a team. Also I really don't want to hear that some people have gifts and talents that make them better than someone else. All this really means is that there is a double standard and that one person should be valued more than another. When if it were not for all parties involved then the "leaders" wouldn't have anyone to lead. I find it amazing that we have so many advantages of technology and many other amenities in our lives, but still get paid according to millennia old traditions. Why? Because those that have do not want anyone else besides them to have anything- especially if they have to give up a little bit of comfort for things to advance into the future. Those that have are the ones that get to portray how history is written.

I am for a free economy, but does anyone really think that a CEO should make a couple hundred million dollars a year and his employees should make minimum wage. I see no honor in that. I also see no honor in a company (enron for example) milking their employees for everything they could get. Just goes to show how cold people are up at the top. If you don't think that people are cold when it comes to money then , well I am not really sure what to say.

I think Unions might be a good thing to bring about equality. But corrupt unions are not the way to go. Something with some honesty and integrity would be nice. >>


Space-saver post for later...I'm gonna reply to this whole thing 🙂 >>



And for your next feat.....................Shooting fish in a barrel. 🙂
 
Well, I give up. I'm getting a strong "I've got mine, so screw everyone else who doesn't" vibe in this thread, so arguing this point any further would be a waste of time 🙁
 


<< Well, I give up. I'm getting a strong "I've got mine, so screw everyone else who doesn't" vibe in this thread, so arguing this point any further would be a waste of time 🙁 >>



no, it's called a "it's not going to f*cking solve any problems" vibe.
 


<<

<< Yes. The minimum wage increase wasn't a universal catastrophe guy. LOL. In fact, I got a $6,000 pay raise just about 2 years ago. >>



Good point. Didn't inflation go DOWN after the last minimum wage increase? If didn't effect the unemployment rate, either. >>



The minimum wage hike of 90/91 DID infact, hurt employment rates, especially between the age range of 15-19(the overwhelming majority of minimum wage earners). Take a look at this article here, its rather long-winded, but informative if you have the patience.

The minimum wage is an uncompassionate tax by which some low-wage workers increase their earnings while others lose their opportunity to earn anything at all.
 
OMG. If we were to break into the concept of "corperations don't pay taxes and never will", it will throw some into a deep reality-shock depression.

This is almost cruel.
 


<< Yes, and if we get rid of them, you'll see slave wages at places like beef packing plants. >>



Where I live, every place pays at least $8.50hr for a full time wage, there are openings and the slaves have yet to line up at the doors.

And there are 2 meat packing plants!

By the way...................You should see what meat cutters make around here. 🙂
 


<<

<< Well, I give up. I'm getting a strong "I've got mine, so screw everyone else who doesn't" vibe in this thread, so arguing this point any further would be a waste of time 🙁 >>


no, it's called a "it's not going to f*cking solve any problems" vibe. >>


Not just that...It's a "it's gonna f*ck everyone in the a*s" vibe
 


<< Well you all know I love playing, lets make a budget! 😛

Lets take your $5.15 an hour quickie mart 40hr wk worker. (Where I live many of the jobs are min wage)
I'll base the budget on where I live, which is between what someone in some low cost midwest town might pay, vs someone in say northern New Jersey.

Monthly Budget (single person but could work as married too if you treat it like roomates here)
----------------------
Rent (roomate deal in 2bedroom apartment) - $500/2 = $250
National Grid (power) bill - $110/2 = $55 (Yes utilities are EXPENSIVE here)
Phone - Basic message rate assuming 50 outgoing calls a month at $0.10 a call - $30 / 2 = $15
Bus pass - $50
Food - $200 That's $6.67 a day to spend on food that keeps a person healthy, surviving on ramen noodles is not healthy!
Clothing - $10
Cable tv - $40/2 = $20 (come now, everyone needs some kind of entertainment)
Misc $40
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total expenses - $640

Figure $5.15 x 40hrs x 4.3weeks = $885.80 - 24% taxes = $673.28

In my region it's possible to live on minimum wage, In large cities and their suburbs it's worse. I'm told in NYC and around it, $1200 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment isn't uncommon. Even if a person has 2 other roomates crammed in a 1 bedroom or studio apartment , minimum wage isn't possible to live at.

I think people on welfare who have kids get more than 673.28 a month.

I don't think there is a good answer for this question. For a single guy living in a country or smaller city area minimum wage is ok. But for families or people living in a city area minimum wages is NOT enough. Perhaps a minimum wage based on living costs for an area?
*shrug* 🙁 >>



You're being pretty nice to Uncle Sam if you're really planning on paying 24% taxes. Look, for someone only making $5.15 / hour they are going to be able to claim exempt or a high number of deductions on their W-4. The more deductions you claim, the more you take home on each paycheck. And you may still get a refund at the end of the year. This goes for local and state taxes as well. You're not required to only deduct for yourself (1) or your family (whatever amount), rather, you can claim any number of deductions on the W-4 as you like (of course, this doesn't apply to your 1040EZ).

Bottom line, people on the lower end of the income scale actually pay very little taxes (especially with the Earned Income Credit). In fact if you look a a pie chart the bottom 15% of wage earners actually account for negative federal income tax revenue (that is, the Fed PAYS out money) and yes, the top 1% of wage earners accounts for 33% of the federal income tax revenue (not companies, top 1% of individual wage earners).
 
It's a bad idea. You don't want the federal government dictating wages and by what right do they have to do so anyway? I know Ralph Nader would enjoy total control over earnings but he's rather nutty.

During every election cycle, as usual, a certain political party will throw out a ridicuously high increase proposal. The other side will counter it. They'll eventually compromise. The Mom and Pop stores nationwide will not be affected (or minimally) and will thank said side for saving them. The other side gets to claim victory for "helping the little guy".
 
How do you have a federal minimum wage that spans across this country, where there are different costs for living? Its moronic.

I voted yes, because I made $113.00 wk in '78 , worked my a$$ off producing for greedy companies, and had nothing left to move forward with.

Making better than 125K now, hasn't made me forget.

Driving taxi's, and waiting tables for subteranian income, is the only option for Americas teens, all the other jobs are bullSh!t. Anyone remember the concept for a Utopian society, or don't they teach that in 2002 ?
 


<< How do you have a federal minimum wage that spans across this country, where there are different costs for living? Its moronic.

I voted yes, because I made $113.00 wk in '78 , worked my a$$ off producing for greedy companies, and had nothing left to move forward with.

Making better than 125K now, hasn't made me forget.

Driving taxi's, and waiting tables for subteranian income, is the only option for Americas teens, all the other jobs are bullSh!t. Anyone remember the concept for a Utopian society, or don't they teach that in 2002 ? >>



I know the feeling. When I was working my way at a grocery store through college, I made a whopping .15 an hour over minimum wage. The company also acted like they doing me a big favor by giving me a extra buck or two a week, while they were producing record profits and giving big fat dividends to their shareholders.

It wasn't that bad for me as a college student who could bum some cash off of his parents when I came up short for the month, but there were working mothers and fathers there who weren't making any more than I was. There weren't any other jobs in the area available, and these people had neither the time or the money to learn a new skill or move elsewhere. Most of them are still there five years later, living off of food stamps and welfare substities. I was lucky, and I got out, and I'm doing well now. I still feel for these people, however, and I think that they deserve a fair wage so they can improve their lives. The other people in this forum, however, don't seem to feel the same way. All they care about is placing blame on the victims, and paying a few extra cents for their freaking groceries each week. 🙁
 
What is wild is that I don't think any economics or business person supports minimum wage however some numb nut welfare hand out folks think they know what is best (eventhough the 'experts' would disagree) and insist on a minimum wage.

And, if people complain about raising a family on $5.15, I mean come on use some logical. Not suppose to raise a family with 2.5 kids 3 TVs and a college education. I mean hell to be so 'fair' to everybody then we need to make minimum wage like $80k a year. How about that while we are at it.

Don't like minumum wage, get a job that pays more.
 


<< these people had neither the time or the money to learn a new skill or move elsewhere >>

Bleeding Heart Translator:

these people are lazy and watch too much fcking television

I'd say more, but all the anti-minimum wage arguments are already out on the table.
 


<<

<< How do you have a federal minimum wage that spans across this country, where there are different costs for living? Its moronic.

I voted yes, because I made $113.00 wk in '78 , worked my a$$ off producing for greedy companies, and had nothing left to move forward with.

Making better than 125K now, hasn't made me forget.

Driving taxi's, and waiting tables for subteranian income, is the only option for Americas teens, all the other jobs are bullSh!t. Anyone remember the concept for a Utopian society, or don't they teach that in 2002 ? >>



I know the feeling. When I was working my way at a grocery store through college, I made a whopping .15 an hour over minimum wage. The company also acted like they doing me a big favor by giving me a extra buck or two a week, while they were producing record profits and giving big fat dividends to their shareholders.

It wasn't that bad for me as a college student who could bum some cash off of his parents when I came up short for the month, but there were working mothers and fathers there who weren't making any more than I was. There weren't any other jobs in the area available, and these people had neither the time or the money to learn a new skill or move elsewhere. Most of them are still there five years later, living off of food stamps and welfare substities. I was lucky, and I got out, and I'm doing well now. I still feel for these people, however, and I think that they deserve a fair wage so they can improve their lives. The other people in this forum, however, don't seem to feel the same way. All they care about is placing blame on the victims, and paying a few extra cents for their freaking groceries each week. 🙁 >>



Oh poor baby, I feel for you, I really do. Let me tell you something, I worked 5 YEARS in 2 minimum wage jobs just to get into a local community collage and make a better life for myself. I worked DAMN HARD to make life better, I didnt just stay at the night stocking job and the day gas attendant job, waiting for the community to come bail me out. I saw that, that was a life that I didnt want to live, thats why I strived to better myself. I set my goals, saved all the money I could(didnt have cable, GASP!) and most of all, didnt act like a selfish child and go out get married and immediatly start popping the kids out. Minimum wage job are entry level and are NOT supposed to be the end of the road career goals ok?! If they were, there would never be any reason to move up the ladder!

Quit letting your rapid feeling cloud youre eyes, and relize that to succeed in life you need to work, and work freaking hard! If you dont like the pay, get a better job, or save up to get training for a better job. Dont go out and have kids, 3 tvs, and a computer and whatnot, then sit back and claim how hard your life is. The lack of self control, morals, self respect, and good ol fashioned motivation is beaten out of you at every turn in this day and age. If someone came to me back then with the same outlook as you two do, I would resent it and be downright insulted. Idiots.
 


<< Who wants to hear a smale-scale example of where it would actually help the worker involved? It has to do with bargaining...

Say a worker is willing to work for any amount greater than $4
The factory owner is willing to hire any person at under $6

Under normal bargaining, the wage would probably work out to $5. Both parties are extra-happy => Worker gets a dollar surplus as does the owner

...but if you set it at $5.50, both parties are still satisfied and there's no deadweight loss...You just transfer the surplus from the owner to the worker...

Of course, it all falls apart when you get to the labor market and the hirer market...but we all knew that anyway 😉 >>



This just causes inflation, and those at the bottom of the totem pole end up with higher pay, but then those who worked their butts off for years for pay raises end up losing value of their paycheck. Good example was from the last minimum wage raise (at Ames store) workers were to get a raise after certain amount of time, then the minimum wage was raised to what they were going to be getting, then when it came time for actual raise, company just said "you already got your raise when the minimum was raised" and screwed everyone.

If our economy is at $2 for minimum wage or $10 for minimum wage, it really doesn't matter. Instead of a loaf of bread for 99 cents, then it would cost everyone $5. That is how economics works and apparently our fellow Liberals flunk economics.
 
I think this needs to be repeated:

You don't lift a person up by artificially increasing the worth of his labor. You lift him up by teaching him a skill that makes his labor worth more.
 


<< Yes they should. minimum wage is supposed to be the minimun ammout of money you have to be making in oder to survive. and freekin 5.15 an hour just dosent cut it. I know New York is rasin the min wage to 6.50 so that cool >>


Are you sure that;s going to be cool?

How about a quick math example...
10 workers making $5.15 hr, each works 30hours a week = Company pays $1,545.00 or $154 each person.
New wage $6.50hr
10 workers making $6.50hr, each works 30hours a week = Company pays $1,950.00 difference of $405 for the company...oops guess 1 or 2 people need to be fired to keep costs down.

You better hope your not the person fired to keep costs down, my example ONLY used 10 people, say the company employs 100 or 500, bye bye lots of workers.
 


<<

<< Yes they should. minimum wage is supposed to be the minimun ammout of money you have to be making in oder to survive. and freekin 5.15 an hour just dosent cut it. I know New York is rasin the min wage to 6.50 so that cool >>


Are you sure that;s going to be cool?

How about a quick math example...
10 workers making $5.15 hr, each works 30hours a week = Company pays $1,545.00 or $154 each person.
New wage $6.50hr
10 workers making $6.50hr, each works 30hours a week = Company pays $1,950.00 difference of $405 for the company...oops guess 1 or 2 people need to be fired to keep costs down.

You better hope your not the person fired to keep costs down, my example ONLY used 10 people, say the company employs 100 or 500, bye bye lots of workers. >>



In my case, I simply raise prices. I'm forced to raise them even more to offset my increased food and material costs as well, since it now costs my suppliers more to pay for labor. So will every other fast food restaurant, grocery store, etc. Apartment complexes will face increased labor costs for grounds keeping and general maintenance.

And BOOM. Your MW worker is right back where he started.
 
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