Should the goal of the Dem Party in 2020 be to appeal to the center or move to the left?

[Moonbeam]

It isn't about Democrats vs Republicans any more. It's about democracy vs fascism. It's a war between children who learned to share and kids who had their childhood stolen by their parents and can never trust anybody again.

 

[alcoholbob]

OP, by "left" I assume you mean left on the establishment "Overton Window". Because America is probably the only country in the world you can have a left/right paradigm where you have anywhere from 70-90% of the public support a series of policies which the establishment consider "far left."

 

[whm1974]

You need to go away dude! Your lack of understanding is unreal!
You come across as if everyone has the ability to work or that everyone can work?
What about those who cannot work due to valid verifiable medical reasons?
again how old are you??

Some teenager or at best someone in their early 20's. And their parents somewhat well off. I'm pretty much Democratic Socialist due to life experience are realizing that "Survival of the Fittest" Economics only leads to widespread poverty.

 

[sao123]

For your information most people on Welfare do work. In Public Aid does have work requirements especially for Men.

Being a high School Dropout with 7 kids and a job at Burger King doesnt count. Neither does the modern day artist and musician collecting food stamps just so they can make ends meet.
Almost all jobs not in a STEM, Medical, Teaching, transportation, energy & manufacturing, financial or trades are just about useless, but we for some reason expect to be able to do them and support a family.
Did you forget that we are in the age of bachelors degrees in basket weaving, liberal arts, and philosophy? Pieces of paper not even worth wiping my butt with.

You need to go away dude! Your lack of understanding is unreal!
You come across as if everyone has the ability to work or that everyone can work?
What about those who cannot work due to valid verifiable medical reasons?
again how old are you??

I'm a product of the mid 70's. Mostly Reagan-ite. i enjoyed America during the 80's when America was bad-ass, and then the grunge bullshit hit in 1990 and I despised everyone one of the people with wallets on chains, nose-rings, sitting around asking, "Got any change?"
society has continually worsened since that point to the complete train wreck of today. I actually weep that I missed the 60's because 1940 - 1975 possibly the best time in the history of the world, heights never to be obtained again.
I'd rather be part of those generations than my own.

Yes, I believe Everyone who is not in a vegetative coma has the ability to work of some sort. Even if you need to get welfare... go pick up litter. Even if you are partially disabled, you can lick envelopes and mail them, or answer phone calls.
As a citizen of humanity, you have a responsibility to be part of the community or workforce until you reach the legal retirement age or become independently wealthy.
Yes I grew up with the Ant and the grasshopper story and firmly believe that if you don't work, you should starve unless your immediate family chooses to care for you, not the rest of the country.

Wealth inequality is not a problem if you get an education and work 60-80 hours a week in the coal mines and steel mills and factories like the greatest generations of this country did..
Every one of them could be a Mike Rowe impersonator, not a single one found today in the workforce could.


Back on the original topic... go as far left as you can, because another 4 more year of DJT is probably as best an anyone can hope for at this point.

 

[dawp]

Small government was never about the number of employees on the payroll... but the number of welfare recipients who are on the payroll (IE welfare) who don't work.

maybe you should look up Grover Norquist because that is exactly what he's pushing, to shrink it small enough to drown in in a bathtub.

and he had the repubs to sign a commitment not to raise taxes

 

[whm1974]

Being a high School Dropout with 7 kids and a job at Burger King doesnt count. Neither does the modern day artist and musician collecting food stamps just so they can make ends meet.
Almost all jobs not in a STEM, Medical, Teaching, transportation, energy & manufacturing, financial or trades are just about useless, but we for some reason expect to be able to do them and support a family.
Did you forget that we are in the age of bachelors degrees in basket weaving, liberal arts, and philosophy? Pieces of paper not even worth wiping my butt with.




I'm a product of the mid 70's. Mostly Reagan-ite. i enjoyed America during the 80's when America was bad-ass, and then the grunge bullshit hit in 1990 and I despised everyone one of the people with wallets on chains, nose-rings, sitting around asking, "Got any change?"
society has continually worsened since that point to the complete train wreck of today. I actually weep that I missed the 60's because 1940 - 1975 possibly the best time in the history of the world, heights never to be obtained again.
I'd rather be part of those generations than my own.

Yes, I believe Everyone who is not in a vegetative coma has the ability to work of some sort. Even if you need to get welfare... go pick up litter. Even if you are partially disabled, you can lick envelopes and mail them, or answer phone calls.
As a citizen of humanity, you have a responsibility to be part of the community or workforce until you reach the legal retirement age or become independently wealthy.
Yes I grew up with the Ant and the grasshopper story and firmly believe that if you don't work, you should starve unless your immediate family chooses to care for you, not the rest of the country.

Wealth inequality is not a problem if you get an education and work 60-80 hours a week in the coal mines and steel mills and factories like the greatest generations of this country did..
Every one of them could be a Mike Rowe impersonator, not a single one found today in the workforce could.


Back on the original topic... go as far left as you can, because another 4 more year of DJT is probably as best an anyone can hope for at this point.

And you are full of outright bullshit. The reason poor folks worked 60 to 80 hrs a week is because they were forced to. Thanks to automation and increasingly better AI, menial labor is quickly becoming unnecessary.

Found an Article from Forbes that saying that "work" could be a thing of the past. Or at least what we currently consider to be work.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbes...and-automation-in-the-workforce/#469a0c984e36

 

[JEDIYoda]

Being a high School Dropout with 7 kids and a job at Burger King doesnt count. Neither does the modern day artist and musician collecting food stamps just so they can make ends meet.
Almost all jobs not in a STEM, Medical, Teaching, transportation, energy & manufacturing, financial or trades are just about useless, but we for some reason expect to be able to do them and support a family.
Did you forget that we are in the age of bachelors degrees in basket weaving, liberal arts, and philosophy? Pieces of paper not even worth wiping my butt with.




I'm a product of the mid 70's. Mostly Reagan-ite. i enjoyed America during the 80's when America was bad-ass, and then the grunge bullshit hit in 1990 and I despised everyone one of the people with wallets on chains, nose-rings, sitting around asking, "Got any change?"
society has continually worsened since that point to the complete train wreck of today. I actually weep that I missed the 60's because 1940 - 1975 possibly the best time in the history of the world, heights never to be obtained again.
I'd rather be part of those generations than my own.

Yes, I believe Everyone who is not in a vegetative coma has the ability to work of some sort. Even if you need to get welfare... go pick up litter. Even if you are partially disabled, you can lick envelopes and mail them, or answer phone calls.
As a citizen of humanity, you have a responsibility to be part of the community or workforce until you reach the legal retirement age or become independently wealthy.
Yes I grew up with the Ant and the grasshopper story and firmly believe that if you don't work, you should starve unless your immediate family chooses to care for you, not the rest of the country.

Wealth inequality is not a problem if you get an education and work 60-80 hours a week in the coal mines and steel mills and factories like the greatest generations of this country did..
Every one of them could be a Mike Rowe impersonator, not a single one found today in the workforce could.


Back on the original topic... go as far left as you can, because another 4 more year of DJT is probably as best an anyone can hope for at this point.

Your ignorance knows no bounds...…..
Let me expla9in -- who is going to hire somebody to lick envelopes all day??
Nobody is going to hire somebody to pick up litter or just answer phones! Your responses are typically idiotic!
Then again eho is going to pay tyhese people a living wage?
Also did you or do you understand that there are many diseases that are debilitating?
I have friend who has stage 4 COPD -- he had to quit his job because he was not fit to do the basic requirements of the job!
he could not even talk without getting winded. He could not walk up a flight of stairs without needing to stop to catch his breath. He has a wife and 4 teenage kids. What is he suppose to do? When he got married and the kids started coming he had a great job and making a good living! Then this happened!
Please don`t be an idiot and say his teenage children should get jobs or his wife should get a 2nd job!

Your problem is you actually were a person who was able to work and you did not like people who you thought could work who were getting what you considered hand outs!

Your arguments really don`t hold water!

Only a complete moron would want to do away with the safety nets that are in place for the marginalized and the poor!

But you are right -- working a Burger King IMO does not make any sense if you want to have family or kids!

Telling the truly disabled they have to work is just total nonsense and tells most people that you have other issues...

 

[sao123]

And you are full of outright bullshit. The reason poor folks worked 60 to 80 hrs a week is because they were forced to. Thanks to automation and increasingly better AI, menial labor is quickly becoming unnecessary.

Found an Article from Forbes that saying that "work" could be a thing of the past. Or at least what we currently consider to be work.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbes...and-automation-in-the-workforce/#469a0c984e36

On the contrary... Employment "Work" is noble, beneficial, and desirable.
Elimination of work is not Utopian, it's Dystopian.

i have no desire to part of any generation which mimics that of the passengers in your favorite movie "Wall-E".

 

[whm1974]

@JEDIYoda As someone who has Major Depression Disorder, I find it rather differcult to simply stay out of bed and perform my Daily Activities of Living, let alone working even part time.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

For Democrats to appeal to the center they'd have to move to the left first. At the moment you only have right-wing and fascist right-wing extremists as choices in the US.

 

[whm1974]

On the contrary... Employment "Work" is noble, beneficial, and desirable.
Elimination of work is not Utopian, it's Dystopian.

i have no desire to part of any generation which mimics that of the passengers in your favorite movie "Wall-E".

Working to make your needs barely meet and enriching rich at your expense is not even remotely Noble, Beneficial, or Desirable. Work doesn't make you free.

 

[Anarchist Mae]

Working to make your needs barely meet and enriching rich at your expense is not even remotely Noble, Beneficial, or Desirable. Work doesn't make you free.

You're all arguing with him based on a faulty premise, he doesn't believe that people have worth other than the capital that they generate for their betters. For him the system is already fair and just, and if someone wanted to change their lot in life they just have to "work harder". If you cannot "work harder" that's because you're lazy.

Where as people in their right mind are well aware that working to barely meet your needs for your entire life is literally torture, something so inhumane it shouldn't be allowed.

 

[brycejones]

i have no desire to part of any generation which mimics that of the passengers in your favorite movie "Wall-E".

Who here does?

Btw the person on welfare with 7 kids working at a fast food job to get by is doing the noble thing as you would say but you choose to shit on them anyway. As a product of the Reagan years you probably believe the welfare queen myth don’t you?

About the only thing America was bad ass at in the 80s was making the rich richer and spending vast sums on the military. 2 things that more the 30 years later have been corrosive to growing the middle class and economic upward mobility as we have disinvested in education, infrastructure, and engaged in wholesale union busting.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Who here does?

Btw the person on welfare with 7 kids working at a fast food job to get by is doing the noble thing as you would say but you choose to shit on them anyway. As a product of the Reagan years you probably believe the welfare queen myth don’t you?

About the only thing America was bad ass at in the 80s was making the rich richer and spending vast sums on the military. 2 things that more the 30 years later have been corrosive to growing the middle class and economic upward mobility as we have disinvested in education, infrastructure, and engaged in wholesale union busting.

Yeah, but the War on Drugs was a massive success.

 

[dank69]

Being a high School Dropout with 7 kids and a job at Burger King doesnt count. Neither does the modern day artist and musician collecting food stamps just so they can make ends meet.
Almost all jobs not in a STEM, Medical, Teaching, transportation, energy & manufacturing, financial or trades are just about useless, but we for some reason expect to be able to do them and support a family.
Did you forget that we are in the age of bachelors degrees in basket weaving, liberal arts, and philosophy? Pieces of paper not even worth wiping my butt with.




I'm a product of the mid 70's. Mostly Reagan-ite. i enjoyed America during the 80's when America was bad-ass, and then the grunge bullshit hit in 1990 and I despised everyone one of the people with wallets on chains, nose-rings, sitting around asking, "Got any change?"
society has continually worsened since that point to the complete train wreck of today. I actually weep that I missed the 60's because 1940 - 1975 possibly the best time in the history of the world, heights never to be obtained again.
I'd rather be part of those generations than my own.

Yes, I believe Everyone who is not in a vegetative coma has the ability to work of some sort. Even if you need to get welfare... go pick up litter. Even if you are partially disabled, you can lick envelopes and mail them, or answer phone calls.
As a citizen of humanity, you have a responsibility to be part of the community or workforce until you reach the legal retirement age or become independently wealthy.
Yes I grew up with the Ant and the grasshopper story and firmly believe that if you don't work, you should starve unless your immediate family chooses to care for you, not the rest of the country.

Wealth inequality is not a problem if you get an education and work 60-80 hours a week in the coal mines and steel mills and factories like the greatest generations of this country did..
Every one of them could be a Mike Rowe impersonator, not a single one found today in the workforce could.


Back on the original topic... go as far left as you can, because another 4 more year of DJT is probably as best an anyone can hope for at this point.

The only decade worse than the 80s was the 70s. You are nostalgic for shit. You have to go all the way back to the 30s to do worse.

 

[dank69]

For Democrats to appeal to the center they'd have to move to the left first. At the moment you only have right-wing and fascist right-wing extremists as choices in the US.

If the center or the right cared about policy, you would be right, but most independents just want a conservative party that isn't quite so insane that they can't defend it without looking retarded. They pray every night for an excuse not to have to vote for a filthy Democrat because God hates Democrats.

 

[brycejones]

The only decade worse than the 80s was the 70s. You are nostalgic for shit. You have to go all the way back to the 30s to do worse.

Fuck you! We had Air Wolf, Miami Vice, and the A-Team. Best decade ever!!!!!!!!!!

Except for the gutting of the farm economy, the massive reduction in American manufacturing employment, the shitty domestic cars, the rise of financial engineering as an industry on its own.

 

[whm1974]

The only decade worse than the 80s was the 70s. You are nostalgic for shit. You have to go all the way back to the 30s to do worse.

Proverty was more widespread in the US even before that. Say what you will about about bootleg gangsters at least they funded soup kitchens to very large degrees during the Great Depression, something the most of the Fithy Rich didn't bother to do.

 

[ecogen]

Being a high School Dropout with 7 kids and a job at Burger King doesnt count. Neither does the modern day artist and musician collecting food stamps just so they can make ends meet.
Almost all jobs not in a STEM, Medical, Teaching, transportation, energy & manufacturing, financial or trades are just about useless, but we for some reason expect to be able to do them and support a family.
Did you forget that we are in the age of bachelors degrees in basket weaving, liberal arts, and philosophy? Pieces of paper not even worth wiping my butt with.




I'm a product of the mid 70's. Mostly Reagan-ite. i enjoyed America during the 80's when America was bad-ass, and then the grunge bullshit hit in 1990 and I despised everyone one of the people with wallets on chains, nose-rings, sitting around asking, "Got any change?"
society has continually worsened since that point to the complete train wreck of today. I actually weep that I missed the 60's because 1940 - 1975 possibly the best time in the history of the world, heights never to be obtained again.
I'd rather be part of those generations than my own.

Yes, I believe Everyone who is not in a vegetative coma has the ability to work of some sort. Even if you need to get welfare... go pick up litter. Even if you are partially disabled, you can lick envelopes and mail them, or answer phone calls.
As a citizen of humanity, you have a responsibility to be part of the community or workforce until you reach the legal retirement age or become independently wealthy.
Yes I grew up with the Ant and the grasshopper story and firmly believe that if you don't work, you should starve unless your immediate family chooses to care for you, not the rest of the country.

Wealth inequality is not a problem if you get an education and work 60-80 hours a week in the coal mines and steel mills and factories like the greatest generations of this country did..
Every one of them could be a Mike Rowe impersonator, not a single one found today in the workforce could.


Back on the original topic... go as far left as you can, because another 4 more year of DJT is probably as best an anyone can hope for at this point.

This is some of the dumbest shit I've read on this forum.

 

[brycejones]

This is some of the dumbest shit I've read on this forum.

It’s standard for sao123.

Who knew a goal we should strive for is poorly paid dangerous work to be paid in company script that could only be spent at the company store. This the history of coal mining sao123 is holding up as something to be aspired to.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The Democrats should generally move to the left. The important part of a presidential candidate is to inspire people, not to offer centrist policy.

I mean if centrist policy were the answer Clinton would be president as she was super centrist. Politics are tribal, not policy based.

Further left to the point of Free college for everyone? I mean there is also a certain scale as to "how far left" or "how far centered".

I mean there is "universal healthcare" left..... You know, the ones that are competent enough to understand that things have to be paid for - and they will be paid for with taxes not just from the rich - but also the middle and lower classes.

then there is "I want everything for free" left. People that don't even understand the basics of macro economics and think you can just magically make college institutions free so that they don't need to pay for their major in Lesbian Basket Weaving.

 

[IJTSSG]

Slither faster.

 

[brycejones]

Lesbian Basket Weaving.

Love and relationships is over there --->

 

[ecogen]

It’s standard for sao123.

Who knew a goal we should strive for is poorly paid dangerous work to be paid in company script that could only be spent at the company store. This the history of coal mining sao123 is holding up as something to be aspired to.

I can't see people like him as anything other than fucking sociopaths, way too far gone.

 

[ecogen]

Further left to the point of Free college for everyone? I mean there is also a certain scale as to "how far left" or "how far centered".

I mean there is "universal healthcare" left..... You know, the ones that are competent enough to understand that things have to be paid for - and they will be paid for with taxes not just from the rich - but also the middle and lower classes.

then there is "I want everything for free" left. People that don't even understand the basics of macro economics and think you can just magically make college institutions free so that they don't need to pay for their major in Lesbian Basket Weaving.

Trying to one up sao123 are you? While your post is pretty retarded, you're not quite there yet.