Should the EU Ban the Swastika?

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: housecat
Awesome! Thats all I can really ask for.

Since my views seldom comply to "convential wisdom" of modern day.. (I'd go as far as to say that most people around the world would think banning the swastika/cross is a good idea).. knowing someone isnt instantly blowing it off at least lets me, and the rest of the crowd, know your opinion will be thought out, and not rash.

Congrats. :beer:

You certainly do manage to go against conventional wisdom, and I don't support banning symbols, but while your idea might be interesting in the academic sense, I fail to see the modern survival value of, say, hating black people.

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: housecat
Awesome! Thats all I can really ask for.

Since my views seldom comply to "convential wisdom" of modern day.. (I'd go as far as to say that most people around the world would think banning the swastika/cross is a good idea).. knowing someone isnt instantly blowing it off at least lets me, and the rest of the crowd, know your opinion will be thought out, and not rash.

Congrats. :beer:

You certainly do manage to go against conventional wisdom, and I don't support banning symbols, but while your idea might be interesting in the academic sense, I fail to see the modern survival value of, say, hating black people.

There is none. I hope I made that clear in my post. If not, I'm stating it now.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: housecat

Originally posted by: sandorski
Raidogg is right, the Cross will be next.

At first, most religous peoples' reactions would be "you're an idiot". I'm not calling you an idiot, just trying to explain how that kind of attitude comes across.


But you are actually very far ahead of your time sandorski. Seriously.

Your mindset will increase rapidly, as it has in the last 50 years, becoming ever more popular until its overwhelming.. there is no stopping it.
I dont agree with you, or your "brilliant analysis" to somehow correlate the cross to swastika in any way.. but, someday Christians will be hunted and you (and probably your children) will be cursing God's name in vain.. but at that point, you will have acknowledged his presence, as other events will have happened to where it will be undeniable, even to a liberal.

I'd fill you in, but the rest of the story is foretold in the Bible.
Just saying...

kind of a warning as to what will happen to you. But I'm a Bible bumping bumpkin, what do we know. Flame me/ignore me and move on with your life.. we'll see whose right.










Now to address the specific thread, the swastika is nothing to fear, it is no different from the cross in that it has been misused.. but like most of these symbols, the original purpose of representation was actually peace and love.

We have more to fear from man himself on a powertrip.
Banning the cross for instance as sandorski suggests, or an equivalent attrocity like Hitler.
Both are by and large, huge failures of the human mind.

I should have Winkied my post. I in no way endorse the banning of Symbols, any Symbols. As Winston explained perfectly, start Banning one thing, soon others will follow.

BTW, don't be too suree that "Christians" will be hunted down. It may be quite the opposite. To be on the Right side of History is to not blind yourself with the Past, but to see the Present for what it Truly is.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: housecat

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: housecat
Awesome! Thats all I can really ask for.

Since my views seldom comply to "convential wisdom" of modern day.. (I'd go as far as to say that most people around the world would think banning the swastika/cross is a good idea).. knowing someone isnt instantly blowing it off at least lets me, and the rest of the crowd, know your opinion will be thought out, and not rash.

Congrats. :beer:

You certainly do manage to go against conventional wisdom, and I don't support banning symbols, but while your idea might be interesting in the academic sense, I fail to see the modern survival value of, say, hating black people.

There is none. I hope I made that clear in my post. If not, I'm stating it now.

Right, I was agreeing with you, except about not trying to eliminate racism. Whether or not racism is a built-in trait or not, I like to think one thing that's good about humans is our ability to rise above our animal instincts. If our innate desires are negative, it's our job to eliminate them, right?

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: housecat

Originally posted by: sandorski
Raidogg is right, the Cross will be next.

At first, most religous peoples' reactions would be "you're an idiot". I'm not calling you an idiot, just trying to explain how that kind of attitude comes across.


But you are actually very far ahead of your time sandorski. Seriously.

Your mindset will increase rapidly, as it has in the last 50 years, becoming ever more popular until its overwhelming.. there is no stopping it.
I dont agree with you, or your "brilliant analysis" to somehow correlate the cross to swastika in any way.. but, someday Christians will be hunted and you (and probably your children) will be cursing God's name in vain.. but at that point, you will have acknowledged his presence, as other events will have happened to where it will be undeniable, even to a liberal.

I'd fill you in, but the rest of the story is foretold in the Bible.
Just saying...

kind of a warning as to what will happen to you. But I'm a Bible bumping bumpkin, what do we know. Flame me/ignore me and move on with your life.. we'll see whose right.










Now to address the specific thread, the swastika is nothing to fear, it is no different from the cross in that it has been misused.. but like most of these symbols, the original purpose of representation was actually peace and love.

We have more to fear from man himself on a powertrip.
Banning the cross for instance as sandorski suggests, or an equivalent attrocity like Hitler.
Both are by and large, huge failures of the human mind.

I should have Winkied my post. I in no way endorse the banning of Symbols, any Symbols. As Winston explained perfectly, start Banning one thing, soon others will follow.

BTW, don't be too suree that "Christians" will be hunted down. It may be quite the opposite. To be on the Right side of History is to not blind yourself with the Past, but to see the Present for what it Truly is.

My bad. I wondered if you were serious. But I really got to thinking on my reply anyway.. so thx in that regard.

Sometimes this place is so fun.



EDIT- and rainsfordm, i couldnt agree more. Your dead on 100%. And I think we agree similarly, that we SHOULD be able to rise above letting symbols get us emotionally out of control.

While maybe a Jew who experienced the holocaust might have an excuse to claim this, the rest of us dont.

Its like American slavery, maybe the people who were originally slaves would/should be offended by the confed flag.. but really I see no example, other than a weak mind to let the flag effect african americans today.

Its like myself (white bread american, of ulster irish descent).. getting offended by a symbol of the IRA. They have killed my people, but their symbol gives me little emotional stirs.

Unless I act as an animal (off instinct/emotion), and let it.

I was also stating that while it should be suppressed, as its a deplorable trait (racism), it is an undeniable part of our nature, I think understanding that will lead to more tolerance, than intolerance in the end.
Reverse racism can be a very ugly thing in itself.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: housecat

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: housecat

Originally posted by: sandorski
Raidogg is right, the Cross will be next.

At first, most religous peoples' reactions would be "you're an idiot". I'm not calling you an idiot, just trying to explain how that kind of attitude comes across.


But you are actually very far ahead of your time sandorski. Seriously.

Your mindset will increase rapidly, as it has in the last 50 years, becoming ever more popular until its overwhelming.. there is no stopping it.
I dont agree with you, or your "brilliant analysis" to somehow correlate the cross to swastika in any way.. but, someday Christians will be hunted and you (and probably your children) will be cursing God's name in vain.. but at that point, you will have acknowledged his presence, as other events will have happened to where it will be undeniable, even to a liberal.

I'd fill you in, but the rest of the story is foretold in the Bible.
Just saying...

kind of a warning as to what will happen to you. But I'm a Bible bumping bumpkin, what do we know. Flame me/ignore me and move on with your life.. we'll see whose right.










Now to address the specific thread, the swastika is nothing to fear, it is no different from the cross in that it has been misused.. but like most of these symbols, the original purpose of representation was actually peace and love.

We have more to fear from man himself on a powertrip.
Banning the cross for instance as sandorski suggests, or an equivalent attrocity like Hitler.
Both are by and large, huge failures of the human mind.

I should have Winkied my post. I in no way endorse the banning of Symbols, any Symbols. As Winston explained perfectly, start Banning one thing, soon others will follow.

BTW, don't be too suree that "Christians" will be hunted down. It may be quite the opposite. To be on the Right side of History is to not blind yourself with the Past, but to see the Present for what it Truly is.

My bad. I wondered if you were serious. But I really got to thinking on my reply anyway.. so thx in that regard.

Sometimes this place is so fun.



EDIT- and rainsfordm, i couldnt agree more. Your dead on 100%. And I think we agree similarly, that we SHOULD be able to rise above letting symbols get us emotionally out of control.

While maybe a Jew who experienced the holocaust might have an excuse to claim this, the rest of us dont.

Its like American slavery, maybe the people who were originally slaves would/should be offended by the confed flag.. but really I see no example, other than a weak mind to let the flag effect african americans today.

Its like myself (white bread american, of ulster irish descent).. getting offended by a symbol of the IRA. They have killed my people, but their symbol gives me little emotional stirs.

Unless I act as an animal (off instinct/emotion), and let it.

Well I can see how symbols might bring up different emotions, it's part of being human after all. But it's also part of what makes us human to be able to control those emtions and not let them get us so riled up.

 

[PatboyX]

the cross hasnt been banned in germany, i dont know why people think it "would be next"

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: JackStorm

Originally posted by: raildogg
You have to understand that symbol is extremely offensive to some people. And its not just the Jews.

If we allowed people to ban everything they find "extremely offensive" then there's a huge risk that a lot of things would be banned.

There is a difference between that and other things.

I'm honestly curious what the difference is, in your mind.

6 million dead jews and I dont know how many million other ppl that is the difference

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Banning a symbol in effect accomplishes nothing. It might prevent people from being offended, but the underlying ideas will likely only grow stronger, and they are what this is really all about.

Yes it does accomplish exactly what it is supposed to : making the wearing or display for the purpose of fun (disrespect to the murdred ppl), political support of what the symbol stands for, etc a punishable offense.

Nobody said it is supposed to be removed from history or education or artistic (movies about the era) documents, etc.

But hey what am I saying everything is black and white - right. Otherwise a concept is to hard to grasp.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Yeah, my first reaction was "Who cares what the EU does." Freedom of speech is, and has mostly been, an American ideal. We value our opinions a great deal, even to the point of allowing something that 90% of the citizens object to. I love it!

Don't be so quick to congratulate yourselves. Look north to Canada and freedom of speech is cherished every bit as much as in the US. In fact you'll find it, plus or minus a little bit, respected and adhered to in most developed nations. They ban the swastika, but you can't have tom sawyer in school because of the n-word (Oh, I must not utter it!).

Perhaps, but while I don't approve of the banning of books from government-funded school libraries, you have to admit there is a big difference between a country that does not support the possibly-controversial reading habits of minors and a country that forbids its adult population from owning any object with a particular symbol on it.

 

[housecat]

yep i agree with ckgunslinger. kids are out of this equation. we're talking adults only.

minors dont have full rights in most countries, therefore dont get full rights to spoil their minds with attrocious material.. and thats up to society (adults) to decide for them.

in america, mostly that is only the most vulgar of material (porn/rape/hate speech/whatever else).. wait till your 18, then you should be allowed to enjoy all the p0rn you want. not that most kids dont sneak it anywayz.

but i think adults have a right when they are responsible for kids to limit their viewing of harmful material.. or twisted material.. its all up to society to judge that.

but generally i havent seen a incredibly worthwhile citizen whose addicted to porn, hate speech and fantasizes about rape.

but ya, i think we prety much all agree that stopping an adult from seeing a swastika is a little scared of a society. and ignorant as hell.




the swastika is as much disrespectful.. as it is a reminder of what happened, and that it should not happen again. so i think we are doign more harm than good considering to ban these symbols. seems a little small minded, simple and ignorant to me.. which is what most ppl think of the popular meaning of the symbols.

IMO, its kinda goign overboard the other direction.. and doing more harm than good for the original cause.

 

[colonel]

very hard to say, I think is an european issue, they suffer the WWII from the nazi years, survivors from the war are ungly about that....