Should the EU Ban the Swastika?

[GTaudiophile]

EU May Ban Swastika After Harry Outrage

BRUSSELS, Belgium ? The European Union (search) may consider banning Nazi symbols in its 25 member nations after Britain's Prince Harry (search) wore a swastika armband to a costume party, the bloc's top justice official said Monday.

While I have no problem banning the Swatika, what will be next? What would stop them from banning crosses or Stars of David? I think, if the issue were in this country, the Supreme Court would throw out such a law for conflicting with Freedom of Speech, yes?

 

[cKGunslinger]

Yeah, my first reaction was "Who cares what the EU does." Freedom of speech is, and has mostly been, an American ideal. We value our opinions a great deal, even to the point of allowing something that 90% of the citizens object to. I love it!

 

[f95toli]

First of all, this is the first I hear about this and I live in the EU (Sweden).
Secondly, decisions like this can not be made on the EU level; it is up to each indiviual country and I seriously doubt a law like that is possible in any country exept Germany (where it Swastika is already banned AFAIK) since this is defintily a free speach issue.
You would need to change the consitution in most (all?) of the member states in order to be able to pass such a law.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
EU May Ban Swastika After Harry Outrage

BRUSSELS, Belgium ? The European Union (search) may consider banning Nazi symbols in its 25 member nations after Britain's Prince Harry (search) wore a swastika armband to a costume party, the bloc's top justice official said Monday.

While I have no problem banning the Swatika, what will be next? What would stop them from banning crosses or Stars of David? I think, if the issue were in this country, the Supreme Court would throw out such a law for conflicting with Freedom of Speech, yes?

I share the same concern. Although their concept of free speech does not dovetail with ours, I think it a mistake. It's the same reason I would not ban the Confederate flag. Freedom of speech means nothing if you cannot offend someone.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Should the EU Ban the Swastika?

No. They should not. In my opinion this is a blatant violation of free speech. Beside, how are they going to ban it? They going to try and erase it the from history books or what? How far will they go? I don't see how this could possibly work. And as f95toli has already noted, member countries would have to make major changes to it laws to make this work in any way. Personally, I don't see this passing. But if it does, my opinion of the E.U (The institution, not countries)will be even lower than it already is and we will all be able to thank the "royal idiot" for getting this act of utter stupidity moving.

 

[CycloWizard]

Banning a symbol in effect accomplishes nothing. It might prevent people from being offended, but the underlying ideas will likely only grow stronger, and they are what this is really all about.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

I share the same concern. Although their concept of free speech does not dovetail with ours, I think it a mistake. It's the same reason I would not ban the Confederate flag. Freedom of speech means nothing if you cannot offend someone.

Indeed. It would be a sad day if people started banning speeches and ideas they disagree with.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Banning a symbol in effect accomplishes nothing. It might prevent people from being offended, but the underlying ideas will likely only grow stronger, and they are what this is really all about.

Agreed. Banning a symbol will not remove the problem of hate and fear of those who are different.

 

[illustri]

Originally posted by: f95toli
First of all, this is the first I hear about this and I live in the EU (Sweden).
Secondly, decisions like this can not be made on the EU level; it is up to each indiviual country and I seriously doubt a law like that is possible in any country exept Germany (where it Swastika is already banned AFAIK) since this is defintily a free speach issue.
You would need to change the consitution in most (all?) of the member states in order to be able to pass such a law.

effectively wins the thread
everything else is just knee-jerk "omg they're gonna take away free speech and pr0n!!!"

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Banning a symbol in effect accomplishes nothing. It might prevent people from being offended, but the underlying ideas will likely only grow stronger, and they are what this is really all about.

Exactly, you can ban an object, but you cannot ban the idea behind it.

 

[illustri]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Banning a symbol in effect accomplishes nothing. It might prevent people from being offended, but the underlying ideas will likely only grow stronger, and they are what this is really all about.

Exactly, you can ban an object, but you cannot ban the idea behind it.

i dunno, isn't that the idea of banning sex toys in some states?

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: illustri

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Banning a symbol in effect accomplishes nothing. It might prevent people from being offended, but the underlying ideas will likely only grow stronger, and they are what this is really all about.

Exactly, you can ban an object, but you cannot ban the idea behind it.

i dunno, isn't that the idea of banning sex toys in some states?

In some way, yes. Doesn't mean they should. Those meanies need to stop keeping people away from their sex toys.

 

[UbiSunt]

If the ban is passed, what are they going to do to the Germanic archeological artifacts that have the aryan swastika carved into them? Chisel them off? These artifacts aren't only in Europe, either.

 

[raildogg]

They should ban it. I understand that the Swastika was used for thousands of years, and many different cultures accross the world used it, but in today's world it represents Nazi's.

 

[UbiSunt]

I understand your point, but what would happen to pre-Nazi historical evidence? How would you go about banning that?

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: raildogg
They should ban it. I understand that the Swastika was used for thousands of years, and many different cultures accross the world used it, but in today's world it represents Nazi's.

So, because some asshats hijacked it for a few years. You think they should ban a symbol that's been around for ages? How far do you feel they should go in banning it? Where would you draw the line if they were to ban it? (Yes, I'd really like to know).

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: JackStorm

Originally posted by: raildogg
They should ban it. I understand that the Swastika was used for thousands of years, and many different cultures accross the world used it, but in today's world it represents Nazi's.

So, because some asshats hijacked it for a few years. You think they should ban a symbol that's been around for ages? How far do you feel they should go in banning it? Where would you draw the line if they were to ban it? (Yes, I'd really like to know).

You have to understand that symbol is extremely offensive to some people. And its not just the Jews. It's not up to me to determine how far one should go in banning it. To me the confederate flag and the Nazi symbol are the same, both should be illigal.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: raildogg
You have to understand that symbol is extremely offensive to some people. And its not just the Jews.

If we allowed people to ban everything they find "extremely offensive" then there's a huge risk that a lot of things would be banned.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: JackStorm

Originally posted by: raildogg
You have to understand that symbol is extremely offensive to some people. And its not just the Jews.

If we allowed people to ban everything they find "extremely offensive" then there's a huge risk that a lot of things would be banned.

There is a difference between that and other things.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: JackStorm

Originally posted by: raildogg
You have to understand that symbol is extremely offensive to some people. And its not just the Jews.

If we allowed people to ban everything they find "extremely offensive" then there's a huge risk that a lot of things would be banned.

There is a difference between that and other things.

I'm honestly curious what the difference is, in your mind.

 

[sandorski]

Raidogg is right, the Cross will be next.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Raidogg is right, the Cross will be next.

:thumbsdown:

 

[illustri]

well... isn't the swastika a bent cross?

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: JackStorm

Originally posted by: raildogg
You have to understand that symbol is extremely offensive to some people. And its not just the Jews.

If we allowed people to ban everything they find "extremely offensive" then there's a huge risk that a lot of things would be banned.

There is a difference between that and other things.

That's a matter of perspective/opinion, it might seem to you, but not everyone agrees with this. And to some people those 'other things' are just as offensive.

Keep in mind that people have been trying to ban this or that for as long as we can remember. I'm just worried that if we allow people to go this way, we might start sliding back to the days of book burning (Yes, an extreme exemple, but a valid one non the less) and banning of ideals that are different. Sure, it might seem unrealistic to you and others, but the risk is always there.

And again, banning the symbol isn't going to remove the legacy left by the Nazi's. There will always be people who hate and preach hate and fear. Personally, I feel it does people good to see and remember what the nazi's have done. It might hurt some people to see it (Like those who suffered under the nazi's). But I see it as necessary. The worst mistake we could possibly make is try to keep people from seeing what damage they did. And as you pointed out yourself, the symbol has sadly become synonymous with the Nazi's in this day and age. And seeing it is one way for people to remember. It wont do us any good to hide and cover up the past. It will just cause us to repeat it again.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: sandorski
Raidogg is right, the Cross will be next.

:thumbsdown:

Thanks for the cookie, hope you got the point.