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Should the debt ceiling deal be scrapped?

theeedude

theeedude

Lifer
I think it's becoming pretty obvious after the market collapse and S&P downgrade that:
-The US economy cannot afford to be cutting any spending a this point. We are on the brink of falling into a recession or worse. Since the cuts are back-loaded anyways, we can get back to them when the economy recovers.
-The US economy cannot handle the uncertainty created by the "Super Congress" political wrangling over what to cut, with many businesses concerned that they will be impacted directly or indirectly and holding off investment.
-The political process "sausage making" itself is undermining market confidence. The politicians need to STFU for at least 6 months, not have a bitter fight over spending cuts in front of the world reinforcing the political risk.

I think in light of that, we need to scrap the debt ceiling deal and Super Congress nonsense, replace it with a clean debt ceiling increase, and basically stop rocking the jittery markets.
 
Yes, more spending is clearly the answer. Hopefully China was just posturing and they'll be glad to keep lending us more.
 
Spending your way out of debt is like fucking to preserve your virginity.

Cut Spending (Really cut it... As in spend less tomorrow than you spent today)
Eliminate wasteful and redundant government programs
Hand the power and decision making authority back to the states

What's so hard about that? Well... I guess it takes more brain and will power than it does to just say "SPEND SPEND SPEND... wwahhhahahahahhaaa!!! Wheeeee!!! MORE!!!11!!one... SPEND IT ALL!!! Other people's money is AWESOME@!@!!@"
 
The downgrade was because we didn't cut enough...

Ditch this weak ass deal and they will downgrade us again!

Great plan... AA here we come...
 
Rick Santelli said that without the Tea Party we'd be rated BB.

We're starting to face the music. It's long overdue.
 
I would've preferred the "Gang of Six" proposal, even though there are parts of it that make me angry.

If we want to scrap anything here, it would be the entire concept of a debt ceiling. Most first world nations do not have one, and it serves no real constructive purpose. If Congress wants to curtail its spending, it should have the balls to do so itself instead of authorizing that kind of spending without funding it either via increased borrowing or via increased taxation.
 
MovingTarget said:
I would've preferred the "Gang of Six" proposal, even though there are parts of it that make me angry.

If we want to scrap anything here, it would be the entire concept of a debt ceiling. Most first world nations do not have one, and it serves no real constructive purpose. If Congress wants to curtail its spending, it should have the balls to do so itself instead of authorizing that kind of spending without funding it either via increased borrowing or via increased taxation.
Click to expand...

Most first world nations aren't so far in debt, now and into the future, that they can't see light at the top of the hole anymore.

And it does serve a constructive purpose. It forces the cockroaches in congress out into the light when they want to push us further into debt. They have to publically acknowledge that the credit card is maxed out and they have to ask for a higher limit. It makes Joe Sixpack wake up for five minutes and pay attention to what is going on over there. It makes people sit up and ask 'WTF are you guys doing now?'

Other than that it seems to serve no purpose. If they wanted to give the DC any teeth they would have required a super majority to vote for raising it.
 
Rick Santelli is a talking head idiot. US can only default on its debt due to some political absurdity like this debt ceiling fight. We borrow money in our own currency, we can pay it back at any time. It will cost us in inflation, but inflation is not a default on our obligations, since we have never agreed to keep inflation at any specific level. The ONLY risk of US defaulting is POLITICAL risk from things like this debt ceiling nonsense.
This is why US bond interest rates dropped today, right after a US debt downgrade.
The market understands that US bonds are fundamentally the safest, no matter what S&P says.
What we need to do is eliminate the political uncertainty. The markets need to know that policy will be driven by economic reality, not political brinkmanship.
 
senseamp said:
Rick Santelli is a talking head idiot. US can only default on its debt due to some political absurdity like this debt ceiling fight. We borrow money in our own currency, we can pay it back at any time. It will cost us in inflation, but inflation is not a default on our obligations, since we have never agreed to keep inflation at any specific level. The ONLY risk of US defaulting is POLITICAL risk from things like this debt ceiling nonsense.
This is why US bond interest rates dropped today, right after a US debt downgrade.
The market understands that US bonds are fundamentally the safest, no matter what S&P says.
What we need to do is eliminate the political uncertainty. The markets need to know that policy will be driven by economic reality, not political brinkmanship.
Click to expand...

If all that is needed is a printing press to have AAA than all governments that control their currency should have AAA, but they don't.

Hell, Zimbabwe should have had AAA, they had a printing press so I guess they can always pay you back. So didn't they deserve AAA?

Of course, you'd be insane to have owned Zimbabwe government bonds which were denominated in Zimbabwe dollars, they'd be worthless now.
 
senseamp said:
Rick Santelli is a talking head idiot. US can only default on its debt due to some political absurdity like this debt ceiling fight. We borrow money in our own currency, we can pay it back at any time. It will cost us in inflation, but inflation is not a default on our obligations, since we have never agreed to keep inflation at any specific level. The ONLY risk of US defaulting is POLITICAL risk from things like this debt ceiling nonsense.
This is why US bond interest rates dropped today, right after a US debt downgrade.
The market understands that US bonds are fundamentally the safest, no matter what S&P says.
What we need to do is eliminate the political uncertainty. The markets need to know that policy will be driven by economic reality, not political brinkmanship.
Click to expand...

Hmm...
1-You want the economy to collapse so you can buy a cheap house and have said so.

2- That being the case anything you suggest should be looked at as a way of making things worse.

3- ???

4- Senseamp profits!!!

😛
 
The market is not buying the inflation argument either. If what the S&P is saying with downgrade is that US will devalue the dollar, why is the dollar rallying and commodities collapsing?
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Hmm...
1-You want the economy to collapse so you can buy a cheap house and have said so.

2- That being the case anything you suggest should be looked at as a way of making things worse.

3- ???

4- Senseamp profits!!!

😛
Click to expand...

I am not a Republican, so I can put the country ahead of my own financial interest.
 
senseamp said:
I am not a Republican, so I can put the country ahead of my own financial interest.
Click to expand...

nasgsatn3.gif
 
Clearly spending more is the answer to this crises that we are now in because we are spending too much.


Hey.....wait a minute............
 
shiner said:
Clearly spending more is the answer to this crises that we are now in because we are spending too much.


Hey.....wait a minute............
Click to expand...

Clearly lowering taxes more is the answer to this crises that we are now in because we are not making enough to cover authorized spending.

Hey.....wait a minute............

😛
 
The rating agencies specifically mentioned cuts in spending were needed (anyone with a brain knows tax increases without spending cuts just creates more spending - like immigration reform without fixing the porous border). Dems are irrational and suicidal and would take America with them. I would like to see Dem party survive but Obama et al are taking them down the crapper for good. Dem states are becoming the new confederacy
 
We should determine what level of debt is sustainable. 3-4% of gdp seems to be sustainable, 10% not so much.

We have a problem. We sent all of out village idiots to dc.
 
S+P indicated that the US has a spending problem. Not a revenue problem. Until the spending problem is mitigated no amount of revenue will be enough.
 
senseamp said:
Rick Santelli is a talking head idiot. US can only default on its debt due to some political absurdity like this debt ceiling fight. We borrow money in our own currency, we can pay it back at any time. It will cost us in inflation, but inflation is not a default on our obligations, since we have never agreed to keep inflation at any specific level. The ONLY risk of US defaulting is POLITICAL risk from things like this debt ceiling nonsense.
This is why US bond interest rates dropped today, right after a US debt downgrade.
The market understands that US bonds are fundamentally the safest, no matter what S&P says.
What we need to do is eliminate the political uncertainty. The markets need to know that policy will be driven by economic reality, not political brinkmanship.
Click to expand...

Printing away our debt is pretty much the worst option, besides completely destroying investment (which it will definitely kill much of). No one wants to invest in a currency that's becoming worthless, and that quickly means an unfunded economy. Becoming AA isn't all that horrible, as you can see from the bond rates. There's a LOT of stuff happening in the world right now; the AA rating isn't the only thing that's fucking the market.
 
charrison said:
We should determine what level of debt is sustainable. 3-4% of gdp seems to be sustainable, 10% not so much.

We have a problem. We sent all of out village idiots to dc.
Click to expand...

That's a good point, but I don't care for lumping all politicians together for blame. Paul Ryan, Bernie Sanders, and Chuck Schumer have quite different agendas.
 
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