Should the American Left accept that it is an elite?

[JohnOfSheffield]

It's when you THINK you are better, which is often not true at all. Elitist and snob are almost interchangable.

How about when you KNOW you are among the elite because of your performance?

See i don't buy this sheit at all, Obama has never been elitist, sure, he talks right over the head of 45% of the population by using advanced words as "therefore" which they assume means "i'm a muslim and i hate america" but i'd say that that has more to do with general ignorance than any form of elitism.

You would call someone like me elitist because i am the best of the very best in this world but truth is, if i didn't know that i am, i would be of no use

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

It's when you THINK you are better, which is often not true at all. Elitist and snob are almost interchangable.

examples:
People who buy Starbucks coffee think they are better than people who buy coffee at McDonalds. That is elitism.
People who refuse to listen to ideas of a high school dropout are elitists.
Republicans who desperately try to avoid doing anything done in Europe simply because it's Europe are elitists.

American culture seems a lot more elitist than usual. For example, why do so many people in the US disrespect people who do manual labor jobs? Because they drift a forklift while you sit at a computer, that means you are better than them? Driving a Prius makes you better than someone who drives a beat up truck? Having a degree from Yale makes you better than someone who has a degree from a state university?

I'd say that the US is mostly pissy because they KNOW they fucked up and the whole of western nations didn't jump when they said jump.

See the UN didn't agree, in fact, Powell who KNEW he was spewing falsaries did sweat like a pig and was laughed out of the room, he resigned effective immediatly from service but delayed the civil resignation, go ahead, look it up.

The US is a clown these days, you never know what joke will come next, we are all removing our forces and this might very well be the last time we work together at leat on US demands, the US did FUCK when France, a NATO nation got into trouble, well they did blame them for the end result but that is the US for you, then they set up shop and pumped oil from the same nation... how fucking cute.

American culture? Yeah... getting drunk and showing boobs in NO, lighting farts that burn your hair from your arse... i think that American culture is best described on FailBook.com.

Seems harsh? Well while around 80% of our population were against the Iraq war, lour prime minister led us into it anyway...

Elitist?

I would love an elitist man in the government but most i woule like a bright feller in our government, someone who cared about the people of the UK instead of a twat sucking up to the US.

 

[Zebo]

Nice read thanks OP I enjoyed it.

 

[PokerGuy]

Not really, it means that you are more capable than others to interpret the situation and act accordingly.

You do realise that is why elite groups exist in the first place? AND that they exist in every area?

How would you sort out unemployment? The debt? what would you do? oh... you don't know, well the "elitists" do know and they are not afraid to actually do what is good for the nation rather than to please their voters.

hahahaha, yeah, they know so well, that's how we got to where we're at to begin with.

The problem is not that there are indeed people with better knowledge/skills/education etc than others, the problem is those who feel superior and feel that better knowledge in one area equates to their opinion being more valuable in others. That's the elitist mentality.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

hahahaha, yeah, they know so well, that's how we got to where we're at to begin with.

The problem is not that there are indeed people with better knowledge/skills/education etc than others, the problem is those who feel superior and feel that better knowledge in one area equates to their opinion being more valuable in others. That's the elitist mentality.

That's the problem, eveyrone cares about their own problems, as a politician you get to care about everyones problems and you have to balance it and think about what is best for everyone.

If you check out what the four most successful nations in the whole western world of comaparable nations have done to get out of it...

But no, not Pokerguy, too fucking daft.

Son, go to sleep, i'm sure you'll feel better tomorrow.

 

[Rainsford]

Fail article is fail.



Elitism has nothing to do with your background or your parents or your wealth or your education. When the leftists are called elitists it a reference to their notion that they know better than the "common people" what is good for them. The notion that "regular people" need help from the liberal elite and/or government to make decisions and guide their lives.

People say "hey, this health care legislation sucks, I want to keep what I have now". Obummer / Elitist response "they just don't know or understand yet how wonderful our plan is, they just need more education on the matter".

THIS is the argument liberals need to focus on more when the topic of "liberal elitism" comes up. Because in the process of calling liberals "elitist", conservatives making this all too common argument also outright say that liberals are, by definition, not "regular people" and that only conservatives can speak for "regular people". Which at various times seems to exclude people with liberal social views, people who live on the coast, people who live in big cities, people who can pronounce nuclear correctly, and so on. Until you're left with a relatively limited segment of the population that conservatives claim speaks for the ENTIRE population. And for that matter, you more or less have a single conservative claiming he or she speaks for all conservatives, who in turn apparently represent all "common people". Tell me that THAT isn't some kind of elitist behavior...

And I maintain that the GWB vs Clinton comparison is totally relevant. Given how often conservatives claim to speak for "common people", it's reasonable to ask where they get the justification for doing so. GWB's only interaction with common people would have been the folks who put gas in his car growing up...so where does he get off claiming to understand a thing about the average American?

 

[Pocatello]

Let's face it, everybody wants to feel special.

 

[PokerGuy]

And I maintain that the GWB vs Clinton comparison is totally relevant. Given how often conservatives claim to speak for "common people", it's reasonable to ask where they get the justification for doing so. GWB's only interaction with common people would have been the folks who put gas in his car growing up...so where does he get off claiming to understand a thing about the average American?

The article goes into the background of each of them, wealth, education, and questions why one would be seen as elitist and the other not. The writer is missing the point entirely: that's not what makes an elitist. It's not their experiences that makes them an elitist, it's their mentality towards others. If they are condescending of other opinions, view themselves as superior by default etc. Bush was a lot of bad things, but he was not an elitist because he didn't talk down to people or assume that he knew better than they did what they wanted in their lives or needed.

Elitists are certainly not limited to liberals by the way, they are in every stripe. When it comes to politics though, the liberals seem to behave a lot more like they know better than you do what's good for you. They chide you when you have the gall to say you know what you want/need better than they do.

 

[Rainsford]

The article goes into the background of each of them, wealth, education, and questions why one would be seen as elitist and the other not. The writer is missing the point entirely: that's not what makes an elitist. It's not their experiences that makes them an elitist, it's their mentality towards others. If they are condescending of other opinions, view themselves as superior by default etc. Bush was a lot of bad things, but he was not an elitist because he didn't talk down to people or assume that he knew better than they did what they wanted in their lives or needed.

And my point is that Bush's mentality towards others (and your mentality, and the mentality of many conservatives) is that they can, with no justification, claim to speak for "common people". And more than that, that they can DEFINE common people to conveniently exclude all liberals. Let's go find some common people in Chicago, or New York, or San Francisco...would THEY agree with "liberals are elitist"? Or for that matter, would they support the statement that "people say 'hey, this health care legislation sucks, I want to keep what I have now'"? But who cares, because they don't count as common people, right?

My favorite though is the appropriation of the word "Americans" by the right in this country. As in, "Americans think X", where 'X' is whatever the conservative in question supports. Nevermind that polls show millions of Americans that don't support X, because everyone hearing the phrase knows who the REAL Americans are.

Elitism indeed...

 

[Rainsford]

...

Elitists are certainly not limited to liberals by the way, they are in every stripe. When it comes to politics though, the liberals seem to behave a lot more like they know better than you do what's good for you. They chide you when you have the gall to say you know what you want/need better than they do.

Isn't that how ALL politics works? It's about debating which ideas are better, and if there is a way of doing that that DOESN'T suggest I think my ideas are better than your ideas, I sure as shit don't see anyone using that approach.

I submit an alternative explanation. You are a conservative, as are the vast majority of people who complain about "liberal elitists". And it's sure easier to just dismiss them as elitists than to actually address their points...

 

[nageov3t]

you can be elite without being an elitist.

see: Bill Clinton

 

[Fern]

-snip-
Elitism has nothing to do with your background or your parents or your wealth or your education. When the leftists are called elitists it a reference to their notion that they know better than the "common people" what is good for them. The notion that "regular people" need help from the liberal elite and/or government to make decisions and guide their lives.

People say "hey, this health care legislation sucks, I want to keep what I have now". Obummer / Elitist response "they just don't know or understand yet how wonderful our plan is, they just need more education on the matter".

Exactly

Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) this week said an uninformed public is largely to blame for the Democrats' problems heading into November's midterms, the Boston Herald reports.

“We have an electorate that doesn’t always pay that much attention to what’s going on so people are influenced by a simple slogan rather than the facts or the truth or what’s happening,” Kerry said Friday in Boston, according to the Herald.

Fern

 

[Lanyap]

Peanut butter manufacturers have to put a warning label on their jars that inform the public that the product may contain peanuts.

They don't have to. They do that because of litigation from opportunists.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Exactly



Fern

"Fuck the truth if the truth means people are fucking daft, let's reinvent truth and make a party out of it based on pure idiocy"

And on the third day, God formed the Conservative party with all traits of fuckup and none of individual freedom and he spoke: Lie your arses off, say that you want to reign in spending while spending more, say you are for a responsible economy while reaming the people, make sure they think it's great.

Thus spoketh god to the Conservative twats.

This HAS to be a mindfuck for any support of either party, equally useless and equally pointless and then there is the TEA party, utter fucktards that praise Palin for her intelligence.

You are in deep shit, that's what happens when the checks and balance are kept by the ones who profit from NOT making the economy balanced.

 

[Craig234]

We are actually the best drivers in the world. Even NYC driving more pussies, and I drive there all the time.

Driving around Boston and not killing people who are just crawling on top of your car is fucking art.

Driving on the highway and not killing people who are doing 65 in the left lane is Trained Elite Liberal Restraint - a highly advanced mental conditioning.

I've driven all around the country, and nowhere compares to Boston.

The drive out of the airport where about 15 cars wide merges into a couple lanes... in a half hour an inch apart forcing their way in.

At the traffic signal, the light had no function. When it turned red for cross traffic, they kept going through it like it was green. Until it cycled again. I think it might have been three green lights before my side got to go, and then it ignored the light. Never saw that anywhere else.

The drive to the airport on the freeway, had so many accidents on the sides of the road, I lost count.

Talk to the people there, and they explain that you never use your turn signal because it warns the other drives who then cut you off. It's the craziest driving IMO.

 

[Mursilis]

When the leftists are called elitists it a reference to their notion that they know better than the "common people" what is good for them. The notion that "regular people" need help from the liberal elite and/or government to make decisions and guide their lives.

Well, you have to give the left that - generally, people are incredibly stupid, in that they continually make poor decisions. I just differ with the left in that I don't feel as strong a need to rescue other people from their own stupidity - that just stifles the wisdom gained from experience.

 

[PokerGuy]

Isn't that how ALL politics works? It's about debating which ideas are better, and if there is a way of doing that that DOESN'T suggest I think my ideas are better than your ideas, I sure as shit don't see anyone using that approach.

I submit an alternative explanation. You are a conservative, as are the vast majority of people who complain about "liberal elitists". And it's sure easier to just dismiss them as elitists than to actually address their points...

There is a difference between belittling the merits of the idea, and belittling the merits of the people. Elitists do the latter. They assume that because they are superior, there's no possible way that the other idea could have more merit, so they assume that it must be the result of the dumb common folk not understanding the brilliance of the elitist idea.

Not only that, but elitists have a habit of assuming they know better than you do what *you* want/need/desire. Thus they don't believe in a government of the people by the people (ie, the people governing themselves), they believe in a superior government ruling the common ignorant folk, since government knows best what's good for you.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

We are actually the best drivers in the world. Even NYC driving more pussies, and I drive there all the time.

Driving around Boston and not killing people who are just crawling on top of your car is fucking art.

Driving on the highway and not killing people who are doing 65 in the left lane is Trained Elite Liberal Restraint - a highly advanced mental conditioning.

i heard you can't drive stick.

 

[HomerJS]

Elitest...

My religion deserves a higher status then yours...

If you are raped and become pregnent we will have the federal government monitor the pregnency and make sure its brought to term.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Someone stating this: "hey, this health care legislation sucks, I want to keep what I have now" is starting with the false premise that they cannot keep what they have now, which is false. They are misinformed, period, there's nothing elitist about that.

You seem to define elitist as those who would deny you an alternate reality or truth.

It is only wrong in that yes they can keep their current coverage, they just have to pay an additional tax for not conforming to the wishes of the left.

 

[PokerGuy]

Someone stating this: "hey, this health care legislation sucks, I want to keep what I have now" is starting with the false premise that they cannot keep what they have now, which is false. They are misinformed, period, there's nothing elitist about that.

Wrong. The legislation will ultimately force changes to all health plans, so you will NOT be able to keep the plan you have now, like it or not. The plan you have now will either be way more expensive, no longer available, or available with many different attributes.

 

[biostud]

Left: Money is a mean to reach a higher goal
Right: Money is the goal

Even in "communist" Denmark the left wing are considered to be the idealist, artists, modern art etc. And the right wing praise "old school" values and criticizes all the new stuff, because it isn't good conservative values.

or the real reason for right wingers to criticize the left wing: The left wing has the best looking women

 

[theeedude]

I wish liberal elites would apply themselves better, get higher paying jobs, and use that money and influence to shape policy like conservative elites do, instead of majoring in art history, working in Starbucks, and having zero impact. Seriously, instead of going to a protest, work for an extra couple hours, and use that money to push policy. 1 million people all give $20, you can then do some serious lobbying with that $20M, and get $20B of government money to accomplish what you want, instead of 1 million people b!tching, moaning, and protesting which accomplishes nothing.