Should Taiwan be independent?

[xuanman]

it is already functionally independent. why upset the status quo. economic pressures will eventually make the two countries closer.

 

[cchen]

Taiwan is already independent. There's no question about it. The US has already explicitly declared that it will "do whatever it takes to defend Taiwan." I don't think China will ever attack Taiwan... there's too much risk of international opposition.

About China's arguments.... all it has ever done is threaten Taiwan... I can see no plausible reason why Taiwan should be part of China. China is only angry that Taiwan continues to be a "renegade." All China really wants is for Taiwan to follow the "one-china" principle, which just means that they want Taiwan to say that they are a part of China. China doesn't even want to take over the island.... they just want to save some face.

 

[Mandrill]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: IamDavid

Originally posted by: freebee
The prospect of the US going to war over a domestic dispute is hardly likely, especially since it hurts America far more than China. The US needs China for its manufacturing, its labor, and its vast consumer markets. And besides, in a non-nuclear war, the US can't win a against China.

WTF?? China could beat the US in a non Nuclear war?? What are you smoking? I want some.

the US couldn't win against north vietnam

kind of sad how fast we forget things...

anyways, no. but i don't think the communist party should be in power either. it's all ME baby

Militarily the US defeated the NVA and VC on every battlefield. Politically we lost the war.

Strictly speaking military vs military in a conventional war, the US would win but the worry that I would have is if we'd have enough equipment and munitions to last the conflict.

 

[GiLtY]

I agree with larger nations afraid to help China in exchange for the large consumer market in China, but Taiwan exports Silicon chips, and its quality is known worldwide. I think even NASA uses the Chips manufactured in Taiwan, so if China attacks Taiwan the market will lose a significant amount of high quality chips.

 

[OulOat]

Originally posted by: notfred
The United States apparently doesn't beleive that parts of a country have the right to secede.

Ditto, anyone forget the Civil War?

 

[gopunk]

Militarily the US defeated the NVA and VC on every battlefield. Politically we lost the war.

Strictly speaking military vs military in a conventional war, the US would win but the worry that I would have is if we'd have enough equipment and munitions to last the conflict.

yea, a conventional war. actually special forces have gotten a lot better, so i think the US would be able to do a lot better these days.

and while we may have won the battles, we lost the war (politically and otherwise). so lots of good winning those battles did, eh?

 

[Imdmn04]

With all the investors from taiwan in mainland, economically it would make sense for taiwan not to decalre independence.

Both parties needs to swallow this "saving face" crap, better economy is a practical thing, pride is not.

 

[ManSnake]

Originally posted by: cchen
Taiwan is already independent. There's no question about it. The US has already explicitly declared that it will "do whatever it takes to defend Taiwan." I don't think China will ever attack Taiwan... there's too much risk of international opposition.

About China's arguments.... all it has ever done is threaten Taiwan... I can see no plausible reason why Taiwan should be part of China. China is only angry that Taiwan continues to be a "renegade." All China really wants is for Taiwan to follow the "one-china" principle, which just means that they want Taiwan to say that they are a part of China. China doesn't even want to take over the island.... they just want to save some face.

Execuse me? Taiwan is not China? Last I heard, the Taiwanese government calls itself "Republic of China"

 

[Red Dawn]

I think Tiawan will eventually become an autonomous territory of China. It wouldn't benefit China to launch a Military strike against Tiawan as the economic ramifications would hurt them worse than having a beaten Tiawan in the fold would help. Of course Tiawan could antagonize them into a conflict if they were to declare their independence. Hopefull the U.S. would be wise enough to Rattle Sabers and Sneer but eventually back of when it happens.

 

[cchen]

Taiwan calls itself the "Republic of China" because it did consider itself China... the original plan was to retake the mainland....

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: cchen
Taiwan calls itself the "Republic of China" because it did consider itself China... the original plan was to retake the mainland....

yea, the government there thinks it is the real goverment of china. hence ROC and PROC

 

[newbiepcuser]

Originally posted by: ManSnake

Originally posted by: cchen
Taiwan is already independent. There's no question about it. The US has already explicitly declared that it will "do whatever it takes to defend Taiwan." I don't think China will ever attack Taiwan... there's too much risk of international opposition.

About China's arguments.... all it has ever done is threaten Taiwan... I can see no plausible reason why Taiwan should be part of China. China is only angry that Taiwan continues to be a "renegade." All China really wants is for Taiwan to follow the "one-china" principle, which just means that they want Taiwan to say that they are a part of China. China doesn't even want to take over the island.... they just want to save some face.

Execuse me? Taiwan is not China? Last I heard, the Taiwanese government calls itself "Republic of China"

China is also known as People'e Republic of China (PROC) Taiwan is independent from China. ROC is not under the soverignty of China's government. (ROC)

 

[luvya]

I prefer independence over reunification. But there is no denying that economic is going to pull us closer.

 

[cchen]

exactly

 

[ManSnake]

Originally posted by: newbiepcuser

Originally posted by: ManSnake

Originally posted by: cchen
Taiwan is already independent. There's no question about it. The US has already explicitly declared that it will "do whatever it takes to defend Taiwan." I don't think China will ever attack Taiwan... there's too much risk of international opposition.

About China's arguments.... all it has ever done is threaten Taiwan... I can see no plausible reason why Taiwan should be part of China. China is only angry that Taiwan continues to be a "renegade." All China really wants is for Taiwan to follow the "one-china" principle, which just means that they want Taiwan to say that they are a part of China. China doesn't even want to take over the island.... they just want to save some face.

Execuse me? Taiwan is not China? Last I heard, the Taiwanese government calls itself "Republic of China"

China is also known as People'e Republic of China (PROC) Taiwan is independent from China. ROC is not under the soverignty of China's government. (ROC)

I know the history behind the struggle between the nationalists and the communists. What I find funny is the fact that some Taiwanese (mostly those that came to Taiwan from the mainland before the nationalists fled) vehemently deny that they have any connection with China, not realizing that their very government calls the island Republic of China.

Btw, Chinese is a term used to describe ethnicity and not nationality.

 

[Imdmn04]

it doesnt matter how much does taiwan consider itself independent, the rest of the world will always look at taiwan as a part of china even if taiwan is basically a self governing country right now without the official title.

no country will risk a huge consumer & labor market plus a possible war with china just to stick up for taiwan, including U.S. every country is selfish and does whats for the best of their interest.

the interest of U.S. right now is to keep the situation status quo:

on one side, if taiwan declared independence, china will definetely use force, u.s. will then risk a war with china, granted u.s. will probably win, but at what cost? is it worth it? nobody really wins in any war.

on the other hand, although u.s. has said that it wants china and taiwan reunite peacefully, this is exactly what they dont want. they want to keep the tension high without a war, so u.s. can keep selling the weapons to taiwan for a profit, taiwan is just a tool that u.s. uses to keep china in check.

u.s. supports taiwan right now not for taiwan's democratic system, but for america's own interest. and it will not be in america's interest if they have to goto war with china.

 

[Booster]

Does Taiwan have the right to be an independent country?

Obviously not. I got this LCD monitor made in Taiwan and it sucks, it has backlight defects. I say screw them.

 

[newbiepcuser]

Originally posted by: ManSnake

Originally posted by: newbiepcuser

Originally posted by: ManSnake

Originally posted by: cchen
Taiwan is already independent. There's no question about it. The US has already explicitly declared that it will "do whatever it takes to defend Taiwan." I don't think China will ever attack Taiwan... there's too much risk of international opposition.

About China's arguments.... all it has ever done is threaten Taiwan... I can see no plausible reason why Taiwan should be part of China. China is only angry that Taiwan continues to be a "renegade." All China really wants is for Taiwan to follow the "one-china" principle, which just means that they want Taiwan to say that they are a part of China. China doesn't even want to take over the island.... they just want to save some face.

Execuse me? Taiwan is not China? Last I heard, the Taiwanese government calls itself "Republic of China"

China is also known as People'e Republic of China (PROC) Taiwan is independent from China. ROC is not under the soverignty of China's government. (ROC)

I know the history behind the struggle between the nationalists and the communists. What I find funny is the fact that some Taiwanese (mostly those that came to Taiwan from the mainland before the nationalists fled) vehemently deny that they have any connection with China, not realizing that their very government calls the island Republic of China.

Btw, Chinese is a term used to describe ethnicity and not nationality.

BTW, I know this.

 

[cchen]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
it doesnt matter how much does taiwan consider itself independent, the rest of the world will always look at taiwan as a part of china even if taiwan is basically a self governing country right now without the official title.

no country will risk a huge consumer & labor market plus a possible war with china just to stick up for taiwan, including U.S. every country is selfish and does whats for the best of their interest.

the interest of U.S. right now is to keep the situation status quo:

on one side, if taiwan declared independence, china will definetely use force, u.s. will then risk a war with china, granted u.s. will probably win, but at what cost? is it worth it? nobody really wins in any war.

on the other hand, although u.s. has said that it wants china and taiwan reunite peacefully, this is exactly what they dont want. they want to keep the tension high without a war, so u.s. can keep selling the weapons to taiwan for a profit, taiwan is just a tool that u.s. uses to keep china in check.

u.s. supports taiwan right now not for taiwan's democratic system, but for america's own interest. and it will not be in america's interest if they have to goto war with china.

Bush has already given his support of an independent, democratic Taiwan. You have no backing to say that the US wouldn't support Taiwan.

 

[jacob0401]

Originally posted by: Booster

Does Taiwan have the right to be an independent country?

Obviously not. I got this LCD monitor made in Taiwan and it sucks, it has backlight defects. I say screw them.

Taiwan makes some of the best computer hardware there is...almost all the major/good motherboard manufacturers are in Taiwan. (i.e Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, Epox, and many more)

 

[GiLtY]

jacob0401

Taiwan makes some of the best computer hardware there is...almost all the major/good motherboard manufacturers are in Taiwan. (i.e Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, Epox, and many more)

Yap, Taiwan makes some very high quality electronics.

 

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: cchen

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
it doesnt matter how much does taiwan consider itself independent, the rest of the world will always look at taiwan as a part of china even if taiwan is basically a self governing country right now without the official title.

no country will risk a huge consumer & labor market plus a possible war with china just to stick up for taiwan, including U.S. every country is selfish and does whats for the best of their interest.

the interest of U.S. right now is to keep the situation status quo:

on one side, if taiwan declared independence, china will definetely use force, u.s. will then risk a war with china, granted u.s. will probably win, but at what cost? is it worth it? nobody really wins in any war.

on the other hand, although u.s. has said that it wants china and taiwan reunite peacefully, this is exactly what they dont want. they want to keep the tension high without a war, so u.s. can keep selling the weapons to taiwan for a profit, taiwan is just a tool that u.s. uses to keep china in check.

u.s. supports taiwan right now not for taiwan's democratic system, but for america's own interest. and it will not be in america's interest if they have to goto war with china.

Bush has already given his support of an independent, democratic Taiwan. You have no backing to say that the US wouldn't support Taiwan.

Bush has said that, but that doesn't mean that future presidents will back up that statement. Realize how many international treaties the US has left with Bush in power.