Should steam allow you to sell your games?

[CrystalBay]

I'm just saying maybe the contract is illegal or , It's like buying a used car an paying the sales tax twice .

There is something about these digital contracts that can be challenged.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

I'm under the impression most of those digital contracts give the company the right to alter the contract if needed. Court challenges would therefore result in precisely nothing.

 

[Rebel_L]

I always chuckle when I hear someone say "but you agreed to it in a contract". Generally speaking contracts are not worth the paper they are written on.

The problem with legal challenges though is that they cost a crap ton of money and the developers have more of it than the people buying, so they tend to have the better lawyers and win more than they loose. It also dosnt help that the majority of gamers dont really care about any of these kind of issues, they just want to play games.

 

[frostedflakes]

Of course I'd like it, but I'm not wasting time wishing for something that's never going to happen.

Yup, first-sale doctrine is pretty much dead with digital distribution. I've just accepted it, I don't mind giving this up for the convenience and lower prices that services like Steam tend to offer. A lot of the games I've bought on Steam have only been like $5-15, so not being able to sell them isn't such a big deal.

 

[simonizor]

I'm under the impression most of those digital contracts give the company the right to alter the contract if needed. Court challenges would therefore result in precisely nothing.

Just because it's written in a contract and someone agrees to it doesn't make it legal. If you signed a contract with someone that allowed them to kill you when you said the word "yellow", would that make it legal for them to kill you when you say "yellow"? No, it wouldn't. The same thing applies to all of the BS that is put into these EULAs.

 

[HeXen]

the law isnt cut and dry. the judge decides on contracts and until some gamer or whoever challenges EULA's and gets a win that changes things then there is no end result to establish in debating theories or morals about it.
all that's goin to happen here is everyone repeatedly makes their points until the thread dies. in other words, no one here likes it. the end

 

[v-600]

Not sure how relevant this might be, but I remember reading recently about a new EU directive designed to give you more rights over your downloads. It is in the review stage at present but it, as I understand it, states that if you purchase/exchange money for a download then it is treated as "goods" (rather than arts). This means that my copy becomes mine to do with as I will, to keep, sell on, whatever.

Some people have already commented it might promote piracy or other nefarious activities but I don't think so. Copyright (and patents, though to a less extend in GB as software patents don't exist yet thank god) still protect companies products whether I own a copy or not.

For example, I recently bought a TV (a sony from a department store). The TV itself is mine to keep, sell, watch in the bath if I so wish. I don't suddenly have any extra rights to start manufacturing copies of it in my garage. The same should happen (hopefully) with software.

EDIT: Found the link I read it on http://www.osnews.com/story/24500/Software_Industry_Lobbies_Against_EU_Consumer_Rights_Laws

 

[tweakboy]

Nope, They would lose too much money.. thx :ninja:

 

[lord_emperor]

Yes, Steam should let you sell games.

Steam should also let you return games that suck / don't work for a refund.

Steam should also let you play games when your internet is down, without planning ahead and entering offline mode. Seriously I can't plan ahead for some drunk ass to knock down a pole with his car.

 

[JTsyo]

Uninstall them, then set your library to only show installed games.

Giving away games would be highly problematic at best. VAC bans are per engine, per steam account. Cheaters would create an account, buy a game, cheat until they get caught, transfer it to a new account, and keep on cheating. Make it so VAC bans transfer, and next thing you know you've got gift trolling.


Beyond that, we're all well aware this will never happen in a million years. Even if somehow they could get the publishers to go along with it - which they won't - why would they? They pay those bandwidth charges, and would rather not stream Gigabytes of game data over and over again. A transfer like this will have the same costs as selling a new copy of the game. Why cannibalize their own business? Steams weekend and special sales already cover a lot of the ground this market would, in a much more controlled fashion.

Also there's no loss of quality in a used digital copy than a new one. There would be no incentive to buy a new copy unless you go the Bioware route and offer DLC to the first owner.

 

[ViviTheMage]

My guess is the issue is stolen/jacked accounts, so they'll never allow it.

Maybe they'd allow it if the account had a physical dongle/security device, so you could verify you are the owner.

 

[Imp]

Wouldn't work. But this brings up a great idea for Steam - game renting. Do what iTunes does and let people "borrow" the game for 30 days, but when they actually start playing it, they get a week before it gets auto-wiped. Price at $20, and I'd do it. So much stuff out there I'd play if they went on sale for $20 or less.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

I always chuckle when I hear someone say "but you agreed to it in a contract". Generally speaking contracts are not worth the paper they are written on.

The problem with legal challenges though is that they cost a crap ton of money and the developers have more of it than the people buying, so they tend to have the better lawyers and win more than they loose. It also dosnt help that the majority of gamers dont really care about any of these kind of issues, they just want to play games.

Furthermore you have to have damages to have a standing to sue. What are your damages? $25 for not being able to resell it? File your complaint with the court, spend months to finally have a judgment or settlement and get your $25 and $65 filing fee back. You going to drive all the way to where the jurisdiction is for the court date?

 

[simonizor]

Yes, Steam should let you sell games.

Steam should also let you return games that suck / don't work for a refund.

Steam should also let you play games when your internet is down, without planning ahead and entering offline mode. Seriously I can't plan ahead for some drunk ass to knock down a pole with his car.

I don't know why people keep saying that they have problems with their games running in offline mode. As long as you have the most up to date version of the game (as of the last time you were connected to the internet), it will work perfectly fine. If you don't have your games updating, then that's your own problem. It's not Steam's fault that you don't update your games. If you were updating your games, the offline mode would would work just as intended. When you don't have an internet connection, you just click the "Offline mode" button, and you will have full access to all of your games as long as they are UP TO DATE and, of course, able to be played offline (as single player games). 😀

 

[RandomSanity]

I don't see how this would be possible, think of all the lost revenue to steam if people were able to resell their games. Even with a transfer fee, who would ever buy a game from steam when there are countless individuals who would be willing to sell it for less?

This is not even mentioning the fake credit card scammers who sell steam keys. Imagine if they had this ability.

I do think they should allow you to return games within 24 hours, perhaps if the game doesn't run on your pc or ends up being terrible. This is a feature of the android marketplace I love.

 

[shortylickens]

HELLS YES!

I got multiple copies of some things cuz of all the big deals on packs, and I cant do anything with them. Cant gift or sell. Just sitting there in my library, multiples, can never use. Ever.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

Yes. Once I'm done with them, I'd like to be rid of them. While I'd prefer to sell, I wouldn't mind gifting away stuff to folks I'm trying to get turned onto Steam.

Actually, I just recently bought Monday Night Combat off a guy on GameTZ. He had bought a 4 pack, then 1 other person backed out of the deal, so I had the opportunity to acquire it. Cool stuff.

 

[Anneka]

Can't understand why this isn't allow, although i realize why.
Just imagine with people being able to sell the games who would buy a new one after 4-5 months of the release when yo could just buy a used one much cheaper.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

It would be easily exploitable. As well as open a market for the resale of games & Steam's income would drastically decrease. They want to keep their pockets painted the many shades of green for as long as possible.

 

[showb1z]

I don't get why some people assume this will never happen just because Valve/publishers/devs are greedy bastards.
Are you people gamers, do you want to keep playing games?
If this would be possible the game industry would just implode. How would they keep making games when hardly anybody would pay the actual people who are making them? The money would just keep circulating endlessly between customers with the devs getting 1% of the real revenue.
Hell, I've never bought a used game simply because I want the people who put the effort in it to actually get my money. If I don't deem a game good enough to spend €40 on I'll just wait a couple months till the prices drop. From a dev point of view there isn't any difference between a pirated game and a used game.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

While I'm not going to endorse the idea, it wouldn't cause the games industry to implode. As it stands, the market most affected by used game sales - the console market - is also the most profitable. Implosion thus seems very unlikely.

 

[skace]

I'd rather have Steam sales than used game sales. Plus I do think people under think all of the logistics of these types of transfers.

It is great to say, "I want Valve to do this", however if "this" results in 15 publishers pulling their entire libraries out of Steam then no, your idea sucks.

 

[lord_emperor]

I don't know why people keep saying that they have problems with their games running in offline mode. As long as you have the most up to date version of the game (as of the last time you were connected to the internet), it will work perfectly fine. If you don't have your games updating, then that's your own problem. It's not Steam's fault that you don't update your games. If you were updating your games, the offline mode would would work just as intended. When you don't have an internet connection, you just click the "Offline mode" button, and you will have full access to all of your games as long as they are UP TO DATE and, of course, able to be played offline (as single player games). 😀

TL😀R It's OK Valve makes you jump through hoops to play games you've purchased.

Keep on giving up your rights for convenience, see where it leads.

 

[blckgrffn]

Hell no -

How many here have had their Steam account hacked? How would you like to get it back devoid of games?!? Horrible! (ViviTheMage had a solution for this...)

Legally, I think this is a grey area. By the Law, I believe, Valve/Steam cannot place restrictions on the resale of their product regardless of what you agree to when you buy it. Now, that is from my Intro to Intellectual Property Law class, so I am sure a loophole is being exploited somewhere...

And at least dirt cheap games get $$$ back to the folks that made it. Used game sales are a leach on the industry.

 

[zokudu]

Not sure how relevant this might be, but I remember reading recently about a new EU directive designed to give you more rights over your downloads. It is in the review stage at present but it, as I understand it, states that if you purchase/exchange money for a download then it is treated as "goods" (rather than arts). This means that my copy becomes mine to do with as I will, to keep, sell on, whatever.

Some people have already commented it might promote piracy or other nefarious activities but I don't think so. Copyright (and patents, though to a less extend in GB as software patents don't exist yet thank god) still protect companies products whether I own a copy or not.

For example, I recently bought a TV (a sony from a department store). The TV itself is mine to keep, sell, watch in the bath if I so wish. I don't suddenly have any extra rights to start manufacturing copies of it in my garage. The same should happen (hopefully) with software.

EDIT: Found the link I read it on http://www.osnews.com/story/24500/Software_Industry_Lobbies_Against_EU_Consumer_Rights_Laws

But you could buy the TV manufacture copies in your garage and give them away. Suddenly you've legalized piracy because your not charging for the product.