Should serving in the U.S. Military be mandatory for U.S. citizens?

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

If anyone had tried to touch me in the military I would have killed them. Not beat them, not fought back...I would have executed them where they stood. Period. I made that perfectly clear from day one I entered. That kind of attitude is the worst sort of ignorant, brainwashed, civilization ending bullshit ever to sully our military.

yeah, but tell us how you really feel. :lips:

 

[Alienwho]

I haven't read very many replies, but here is my opinion.

I do not think that military service should be mandatory. I do think, however, that some kind of service/foreign experience for a minimum of one year should be mandatory. Preferably, they would leave their home (very preferably would have to leave the country). After high school, all students should be able to pick from either the military, red cross, a church sponsored foreign service activity, etc.

Right after i graduated high school I spent 2 years in Brazil performing different service activities. It was by far the best two years of my life and was a complete adventure. I learned more in that time than I've learned in all of college and high school put together. I gained complete independence, learned a new language, made tons of new friends, found an appreciation for a different culture and have gained a new global perspective. Sometimes I really ache to just give it all away and go back to live that simple and extremely satisfying lifestyle.

 

[Alienwho]

Originally posted by: rivan
I think there should be options for portions of that service to count toward college credit.

I agree with this.

When I got home from Brazil I spoke fluent portuguese. First thing I did was go to my college and take a test to "test out" of the language classes. Easiest 30 credits I've ever earned. Took me 30 minutes.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: looker001

I have family in the military and from talking to them, this would not fly in today military. No way could you give someone a beating till they shaped out or got sent to military jail. This is not how our military works today. This country do not own me, the military does not own me either. Maybe what you describing worked before, but it don't work in today military. You would not be able to shape up an 18 year old that didn't want to be there and could care less what you tried to explain to him about team work etc.

You're oversimplifying things, and those family members are ones that are making an effort opposed to trying to make enemies and life hard for themselves, so their perspective isn't the same. When you get a group of 18 yo men together and their sergeant is making life unpleasant for them in several ways because of the ones who act up, peer pressure goes a long way and there's several types of pressure.

Group mentality causes a lot of interesting things to happen even with tame students, let alone those in the military. A group of 18 yo will become more and more aggressive until the offender shaped up, or acted out in an extreme enough way they went to prison, keeping in mind it's the word of one against all the others. A group of 18 yo will do that even without any pressure from an authority, look around in real life instead of a sterile internet forum. It depends on the circumstances, but in this case I concede I'm thinking of a particular one, that it'd take a major war to cause a draft again.

Whether the country owns you or not is an arbitrary way of looking at the situation. Once in, you really don't have the option to obey or not obey any legal order, and the term AWOL applies if you feel like leaving without being told to. I suppose if you tried hard enough you could manage some sort of honorable or dishonorable discharge, though just claiming "You don't own me I'm not gonna do it" wouldn't fly.

Before it came to that point, you could dodge a draft but maybe instead of being so selfish you should do your part IF it ever got bad enough that the country felt it necessary to impose a non-voluntary draft again. Let's hope it never comes to that.

 

[yh125d]

Yes and no. No, because theres plenty of volunteers and mandatory isn't necessary. Also no because I don't think it should be a right of the government. Thirdly no because the amount of money the government would be spending to put each trainee through BMT, supply them with food/housing/income for the extent of their service, all the basic supplies (uniforms, ABUs, etc) would be absolutely ridiculous

Although I definitely do see a huge benefit to mandatory service. The lessons you learn in the military are invaluable. The military can turn any deadbeat into a very responsible, determined, and headstrong individual, and the US could use some more of them

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Alienwho

Originally posted by: rivan
I think there should be options for portions of that service to count toward college credit.

I agree with this.

When I got home from Brazil I spoke fluent portuguese. First thing I did was go to my college and take a test to "test out" of the language classes. Easiest 30 credits I've ever earned. Took me 30 minutes.

Yeah, but you're forgetting all that time spent in Brazil actually learning Portuguese. 😉

And I agree that many more people should experience this type of service.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: finite automaton
Some people in the Selective Service thread were claiming that if a draft was re-instated, there would be a riot.

This made me think; in Israel, serving in the IDF is mandatory. Those complaining about the draft should be glad that the U.S. isn't more like Israel.

Then I got to thinking, would the U.S. be a better version of itself if serving in the military was necessary? That's where ATOT comes in.

I would imagine that those complaining about the draft ARE glad that the US isn't more like Israel; in fact, they would rather that the US become even less like Israel and get rid of Selective Service.



It really works better for small countries.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: NSFW
It would also teach the kids some patriotism. Lil bastards seem to take verything for granted including their country. Put them on the front lines with a rifle where their choice is to defend their country or GTFO.

If I believed for one second that the wars that we're fighting these days had ANYTHING AT ALL to do with defending the country, I'd agree.

 

[mindless1]

... and yet the wars we're fighting (in recent years) haven't caused us to impose a draft either. They're not going to start drafting people on a lark or because of Obama, we elected him President, not King.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: mindless1


Fact is, our military is what preserves our way of life. It would be ridiculous to think otherwise, incredibly so.

Many people work to preserve our way of life. Lawyers are better candidates to top that list than soldiers.

Love your country, thank a soldier.
Love your freedom, thank a lawyer.

That's repulsive. While I will admit that there are good lawyers who have done and will do good things for this nation, there are many, many more who are only out for themselves and the almighty dollar. The legal system in this country is not about preserving rights or finding the truth -- it's about money. You doubt that? Two words: tort reform.

There is no freedom without an adequate defense. I can assure you that few people in the military are there because of the financial rewards (and, no, not all are there out of patriotism, either).

What's repulsive is your ignorance.

I have experience in both the legal profession and the military. Do you?

 

[looker001]

Originally posted by: mindless1

Originally posted by: looker001

I have family in the military and from talking to them, this would not fly in today military. No way could you give someone a beating till they shaped out or got sent to military jail. This is not how our military works today. This country do not own me, the military does not own me either. Maybe what you describing worked before, but it don't work in today military. You would not be able to shape up an 18 year old that didn't want to be there and could care less what you tried to explain to him about team work etc.

You're oversimplifying things, and those family members are ones that are making an effort opposed to trying to make enemies and life hard for themselves, so their perspective isn't the same. When you get a group of 18 yo men together and their sergeant is making life unpleasant for them in several ways because of the ones who act up, peer pressure goes a long way and there's several types of pressure.

Group mentality causes a lot of interesting things to happen even with tame students, let alone those in the military. A group of 18 yo will become more and more aggressive until the offender shaped up, or acted out in an extreme enough way they went to prison, keeping in mind it's the word of one against all the others. A group of 18 yo will do that even without any pressure from an authority, look around in real life instead of a sterile internet forum. It depends on the circumstances, but in this case I concede I'm thinking of a particular one, that it'd take a major war to cause a draft again.

Whether the country owns you or not is an arbitrary way of looking at the situation. Once in, you really don't have the option to obey or not obey any legal order, and the term AWOL applies if you feel like leaving without being told to. I suppose if you tried hard enough you could manage some sort of honorable or dishonorable discharge, though just claiming "You don't own me I'm not gonna do it" wouldn't fly.

Before it came to that point, you could dodge a draft but maybe instead of being so selfish you should do your part IF it ever got bad enough that the country felt it necessary to impose a non-voluntary draft again. Let's hope it never comes to that.

I am not register with selective service(kind of regret now) as i found out i can't work for government but oh well what is done is done. If i decided not to register for something that i could be punished by prison or fine, what are the chances do you think I would follow peer pressure as you put it? I was SOB when i was that age and peer pressure would likely resulted in me kicking some ass.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: looker001
I am not register with selective service(kind of regret now) as i found out i can't work for government but oh well what is done is done. If i decided not to register for something that i could be punished by prison or fine, what are the chances do you think I would follow peer pressure as you put it? I was SOB when i was that age and peer pressure would likely resulted in me kicking some ass.

The chances are very good, once you'd realized you don't win fights against an entire platoon on one, and that your other alternative is sitting in a prison cell for awhile. You don't seem to grasp the reality of the situation at all, if/when drafts are used it's not like they're asking you if you'd like to cooperate and not like you can just not want to bad enough. Your options are as already stated, get along (after however much peer pressure it takes), sit in a cell, find a way to get discharged (fighting or general discontent won't do that) or dodge the draft. The one thing there is no way in hell of having happen is you sitting on the sidelines because you're a SOB that doesn't feel like pulling his own weight. You just don't see that they aren't asking what you think or want to do in that situation, and kicking ass is kinda what a military is all about.

If merely having a strong enough attitude of "I'm not gonna do it" worked, there'd be no such thing as a non-voluntary service, the draft wouldn't work at all. What happens instead? They like to make examples of people.

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: mindless1

Originally posted by: looker001
I am not register with selective service(kind of regret now) as i found out i can't work for government but oh well what is done is done. If i decided not to register for something that i could be punished by prison or fine, what are the chances do you think I would follow peer pressure as you put it? I was SOB when i was that age and peer pressure would likely resulted in me kicking some ass.

The chances are very good, once you'd realized you don't win fights against an entire platoon on one, and that your other alternative is sitting in a prison cell for awhile. You don't seem to grasp the reality of the situation at all, if/when drafts are used it's not like they're asking you if you'd like to cooperate and not like you can just not want to bad enough. Your options are as already stated, get along (after however much peer pressure it takes), sit in a cell, find a way to get discharged (fighting or general discontent won't do that) or dodge the draft. The one thing there is no way in hell of having happen is you sitting on the sidelines because you're a SOB that doesn't feel like pulling his own weight. You just don't see that they aren't asking what you think or want to do in that situation, and kicking ass is kinda what a military is all about.

If merely having a strong enough attitude of "I'm not gonna do it" worked, there'd be no such thing as a non-voluntary service, the draft wouldn't work at all. What happens instead? They like to make examples of people.

He's 18. He only thinks he knows it all.

 

[looker001]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: mindless1

Originally posted by: looker001
I am not register with selective service(kind of regret now) as i found out i can't work for government but oh well what is done is done. If i decided not to register for something that i could be punished by prison or fine, what are the chances do you think I would follow peer pressure as you put it? I was SOB when i was that age and peer pressure would likely resulted in me kicking some ass.

The chances are very good, once you'd realized you don't win fights against an entire platoon on one, and that your other alternative is sitting in a prison cell for awhile. You don't seem to grasp the reality of the situation at all, if/when drafts are used it's not like they're asking you if you'd like to cooperate and not like you can just not want to bad enough. Your options are as already stated, get along (after however much peer pressure it takes), sit in a cell, find a way to get discharged (fighting or general discontent won't do that) or dodge the draft. The one thing there is no way in hell of having happen is you sitting on the sidelines because you're a SOB that doesn't feel like pulling his own weight. You just don't see that they aren't asking what you think or want to do in that situation, and kicking ass is kinda what a military is all about.

If merely having a strong enough attitude of "I'm not gonna do it" worked, there'd be no such thing as a non-voluntary service, the draft wouldn't work at all. What happens instead? They like to make examples of people.

He's 18. He only thinks he knows it all.

Um, no i am 27 🙂

 

[mindless1]

This topic may not have any further useful purpose, but I'll add one more thing.

Service is about honor and respect. It's about recognizing large sacrifices made, not just by your contemporaries but all that came before them (even more than us) that allow a way of life where people like looker001 can say "I'll do what I want". Bravo to him, that is what I and other have fought and died for, to give others the choice to do what a free society allows, even if immediate circumstances don't always allow it.

We may argue, but THAT is what is important, to have the freedom to disagree, to live according to your beliefs, and to have the protection to do so in a society that allows it, instead of allowing those who make efforts against it, to succeed. We are a global community, and some may not understand enforcing world peace and civility, but even if it doesn't effect the short-term goals of those here, the momentum of mankind, a precedent and rules, help shape the future so others like looker001 have a chance to find other alternatives.

I disagree with the idea of rebelling against that, but I will always fight for the right to do it.

 

[Mday]

I think civil service should be a requirement of every citizen, but that's not going to happen. I would support having civil service be a requirement to receive federal financial aid for college.

 

[Geocentricity]

One of the reasons why our military is great is because the members service WILLINGLY. The same example can be said about open source products; self-motivation drives one to excel in what he/she is doing, not the cracking of an overseer's whip.