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Should poor people be mandatorily sterilized?
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Been tried may times in many places. Never works. Too many people on welfare, etc are also your more traditional types of thief, thus no one wants to employ them. I know it was tried with tobacco farmers in my region a while back. The result was shoddy labor and missing tools from pretty much all the farms involved. There's no way in hell I'd trust welfare people with my mail!!
The main reason welfare people are being baby factories is the same reason that most of the global population expansion is coming out of 3rd and 4th world countries with pretty much inhumane living conditions; sex is cheap. All you need is a man and a women. It kills time and most importantly provides pleasure. It also does not cost anything (if married or in a relationship) like drugs do. Thus it's very attractive to poor people. And since contraception costs money (that they'd rather spend on booze and smokes anyway) well, that's something they can live without.
Welfare on the whole does need reform, though. In a sh!tty economy it is a good program to ensure that families don't collapse and things generally go to hell. We do have to have some kind of cutoff, though. I've known of people who work summer labor jobs and then go on welfare for the rest of the year, repeating his cycle as long as they can with no desire to move up in the world. They both work and mooch in somewhat equal measure. The system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to take into consideration all the abuses that have been heaped upon it in the decades since it was built.
It's a nice idea, I agree with it, but it needs a ton of more research to come up with viable infertility treatments. There would also be decades of constitutional challenges put forth on it, too. Oh, I would also say people should get the first two births free, then it becomes time to charge them. There have been great people who came from poor, sh!tty backgrounds, no reason to discriminate against that. Of course I would also want it proven that a child could be raised well in the home of anyone wanting one, too. People see children too much as an entitlement, thus the baby factories.
Amused about your little "welfare increased crime" post, that seems to assume that the rest of society is unchanged from the 50s and before. Considering how dramatically different things are from back then (really, there are few to no facets the same) I would not put the whole bit on welfare.
Out of curiosity, what other government provided services would people like to see abolished so that their taxes would go down?
I also doubt that they ever would lower taxes if welfare was abolished, at least by the amount they should. The government would just find some place else to put all the "newly freed up" money into. Pork projects, bureaucratic waste, excessive perks, and general needless spending should be gotten rid of long before social programs are looked at. Of course I also think that raises in political salary should be contingent with the economic growth and disposable income of the bottom strata of society. That way you have something to actually encourage the politicians to preform. Now it's basically "Hey, you want to vote in a 20% raise this year?" "Yeah, sounds good to me." People being able to set their own salaries anywhere outside of an entrepreneurial business is complete bullsh!t.
erikistired
Diamond Member
who said anything about gassing? that's kind of taking it to the extreme eh? putting someone on a birth control shot while they are collecting welfare is a little different than KILLING them.
Amused
Elite Member
I never made that connection. I only made the very obvious observation that welfare did NOT decrease crime. That crime increased after the implimentation. I pointed out a correlation that disproved the claim that giving the poor entitlements would decrease crime. I did not claim causastion.
Looked very much the other way to me. Before welfare = low crime. After welfare = higher crime. Since the topic was welfare and you gave no indication that this was being used as a marker in time to denote different periods, it looked very much like you were making the connection that welfare does indeed cause more crime. But if that's true, that you just used it to denote periods in history, then you shouldn't have any problem with the program itself. So if welfare isn't the cause for the crime increase, what do you see that being?
Or have I just misinterpeted everything you've said?
Amused
Elite Member
No, you read too much into it. As I said, the claim I responded to was that denying people the entitlement of welfare would cause an increase in crime. I responded that the implementation of welfare CORRELATED with an increase, not a decrease in crime.
Learn the difference between correlation and causation. I claimed the former. By doing so, I put in question any claim that the existence of welfare would have a positive effect on crime, and the lack of it a negative effect.
That's all I had to do, was put his claim in question.
Learn the difference between correlation and causation. I claimed the former. By doing so, I put in question any claim that the existence of welfare would have a positive effect on crime, and the lack of it a negative effect.
That's all I had to do, was put his claim in question.
Some of the ones that receive money from government do so for a short period of time, and find another way to live.
This babies thing is indeed a difficult proposition - but already there is a deficit of working people reported to the old non-working ones. And the future is anyway but good in this regard
Calin
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