Should people be able to vote down products that are DOA

[rudeguy]

doesn't matter if a drunk cat took a piss on the system either. it should still be tested and validated before it is packaged. so yes, would still vote down.

what if a unicorn kicked open the package and then the drunk cat pissed on it and the leprechaun shit in it?

The point is this is all a discussion about the OP's made up problem.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

I agree. I think Amazon should provide an individual registration number for each product that you purchase that allows you to rate and comment on that product.

Of course, that would also be a terrible idea for various reasons...

I think thats a great idea. I think it would be fine to keep the system as is, but in addition be able to give your review more weight by proving you have experience.

 

[zinfamous]

Amazon already certifies if you bought the product from them or not.

But how does that figure into the overall star ratings? Do certified and non-certified star ratings figure equally into the same overall rating?

Most people just look at the rating and skim one or two reviews.

 

[SandEagle]

what if a unicorn kicked open the package and then the drunk cat pissed on it and the leprechaun shit in it?

The point is this is all a discussion about the OP's made up problem.

problem is legit. quite a few folks have reported DOA systems. there's a discussion going on in console gaming forum
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2353798

 

[rudeguy]

problem is legit. quite a few folks have reported DOA systems. there's a discussion going on in console gaming forum
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2353798

But to speculate that its caused by internal sabotage? That is my point of debate.

Until I see one cracked open with proof of sabotage, I'm more likely to believe the unicorn and leprechaun were in on it.

 

[TwiceOver]

Definitely. Why shouldn't they be able to?

 

[SandEagle]

But to speculate that its caused by internal sabotage? That is my point of debate.

Until I see one cracked open with proof of sabotage, I'm more likely to believe the unicorn and leprechaun were in on it.

http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...hardware-failures-could-be-foxconns-faul.aspx

 

[BurnItDwn]

Usually when I am buying something (in general), I want to make sure it's not broken, and that it will work for a long time. I do not like hassles of returns or exchanges. Therefore, if something is DOA, that is total failure and completely unacceptable in all cases. You sell me broken garbage, and I'm going to leave nasty reviews.

part 1 of every review should be "Does it work", if the answer is no, then it deserves the worst possible review. The entire point of the product and everything else about it is moot if it does not even work.

 

[BUTCH1]

you can pass QC and still get a DOA product, once it leaves the factory its out of your hands. shipping and handling issues accnt for a huge portion of DOA issues and that has nothing to do with the people who made it

Na, the box would have to be badly and noticeably damaged for something like a playstation to be DOA, QC should at least power up every unit before it ships, these are not cheap $20 toys...

 

[Midwayman]

I don't mind bad reviews for DOA stuff, so long as they actually had one. What pisses me off are the people who review customer service in the product reviews. I don't care that your package was late.

 

[zinfamous]

But to speculate that its caused by internal sabotage? That is my point of debate.

Until I see one cracked open with proof of sabotage, I'm more likely to believe the unicorn and leprechaun were in on it.

I agree, it's weird and a tough sell.

But you should read the article--they at least claim a source about this specific issue, as well as citing rather insane recent practices from the appropriately maligned Foxconn factories, that can be easily fact-checked.

The accuracy of the source regarding PS4s is the only hangup; but it is Foxconn, so...

 

[ThinClient]

This is karma for early adopters. There's a ton of reasons why I refuse to adopt new tech earlier than a year after release.

 

[Perknose]

But to speculate that its caused by internal sabotage? That is my point of debate.

Until I see one cracked open with proof of sabotage, I'm more likely to believe the unicorn and leprechaun were in on it.

In China, you can only find leprechauns and unicorns on the menu in restaurants. In factories, actual Chinese are more plentiful and work for less.

 

[destrekor]

DOAs for integrated and complex systems are guaranteed to happen. Simple as that.
Whether reviews should count negatively or not is an entirely different matter; that said, one should always expect the possibility.

When you produce something like a console, to the tune of a million+ units, there will be THOUSANDS of DOAs. The cost to implement perfect system testing on every single unit manufactured is a significant cost that none of us want to see.

 

[smackababy]

I think they should count against it.

The reviews I feel are unwarranted are the ones that are nothing about the product itself. They exist all over Newegg and Amazon. "Bought X product, it works great but the shipping was slow; 1 star". or "Product isn't compatible with <insert MB from 1995>; 1 star"

Pretty much 90% of reviews that rate themselves as the highest tech level should also be ignored. They aren't intelligent enough to be half that tech level.

The fact the PS4 is getting 1 star reviews for having a higher than average failure rate (Sony is claiming .4%, which is incredibly unrealistic) is understandable. You hype your system, and when I get it and it doesn't work, I am annoyed.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

As a consumer, knowing the failure rate of a particular item can be just as valuable as knowing all the good things it does. If the PS4 is the bee's knees but every third console fails, well, that's a pretty good reason to hold off on making a purchase right now. The only point of ratings is to advise other consumers, so I'm thinking that sort of information is something I'd like to see.

 

[sandorski]

DOAs, sure. People reviewing should make that clear though and a follow up once they get a working Product would be nice. I think people are too casual in their Reviews.

 

[Puppies04]

Anyone who thinks giving 1 star to a product that turns up DOA especially something as anticipated as a next gen console is unjustified must have fanboi stamped on their forehead.

Then we start with the "oh it wasn't sonys fault the terrible underpaid workers at foxconn did it" give me a freakin break. It says sony on the package and sony shuld be checking their products before they ship them out.

 

[destrekor]

Na, the box would have to be badly and noticeably damaged for something like a playstation to be DOA, QC should at least power up every unit before it ships, these are not cheap $20 toys...

Boxes are more sturdy than you expect. You can shift a box enough to disrupt an already bad solder job without causing visible damage. Especially if every box literally has zero room to move and an entire freight shipping unit (container, tightly wrapped pallet, etc) was moved/tossed around roughly due to a mishap or whatever.


And many electronics failures don't even need the shipping variable. Something can turn on a few times just fine, and then not turn on again. Those previous tests could have caused a temperature rise or fan vibration to ruin an already bad connection/solder somewhere.

There are so many variables, it's unreal. It'll happen to the Xbox One. It happened to both the PS2 and PS3. Probably happened with the first PlayStation. I personally had a DOA PS2 - discovered it was DOA on Christmas morning. That was a joyful moment, btw.
It happens less frequently after launch because everything is much less hurried. The production floor has become more "expert" at assembly, inspectors can better see what fault tolerances there are and when something they see is likely to cause a unit to become DOA after some shuffling or repeated testing.

It happens with every piece of consumer electronics. Why does this cause a new discussion every single time? Highly hyped launches get more attention, and more DOAs I suspect, due to the amount of product that needed to be manufactured, assembled, and moved. But everything from handheld consoles, normal consoles, smart phones, tablets, laptops, TVs, hell probably even the more gadget-y kitchen appliances... depending on a few variables, like product sales volume and whatnot, and degree of complexity/number of internal wire and solder connections, the likelihood of DOAs rises.

 

[destrekor]

I think they should count against it.

The reviews I feel are unwarranted are the ones that are nothing about the product itself. They exist all over Newegg and Amazon. "Bought X product, it works great but the shipping was slow; 1 star". or "Product isn't compatible with <insert MB from 1995>; 1 star"

Pretty much 90% of reviews that rate themselves as the highest tech level should also be ignored. They aren't intelligent enough to be half that tech level.

The fact the PS4 is getting 1 star reviews for having a higher than average failure rate (Sony is claiming .4%, which is incredibly unrealistic) is understandable. You hype your system, and when I get it and it doesn't work, I am annoyed.

0.4% = 4000 out of a million.
Last I saw, they sold over a million. If that is all that is shipped, if that's even close to accurate as of today, not sure. But 4000 DOAs = even if only 1/4 of them are leaving negative reviews, that's a fair bit of negative attention.

 

[ThinClient]

There is absolutely no reason for DOA equipment, save shipping damage that would be obvious by looking at the box it was shipped in.

Every single unit should be tested for full functionality before being shipped to retailers.

Anything less is lazy and stupid and a disservice and disrespect to the customer.

 

[alkemyst]

If I spend that kind of money on a console and have all that anticipation of playing, get home, set it up and DOA? Not only is 1 star justified but I think anthrax sent to corporate office gets a pass, too.

lol...what a psycho.

 

[ThinClient]

lol...what a psycho.

Coming from you, that's rich :awe:

 

[destrekor]

There is absolutely no reason for DOA equipment, save shipping damage that would be obvious by looking at the box it was shipped in.

Every single unit should be tested for full functionality before being shipped to retailers.

Anything less is lazy and stupid and a disservice and disrespect to the customer.

Don't be so naive.

As already stated, shipping damage can occur without obvious box damage.


And you seriously misunderstand the economics of these things. Full inspections, to ensure zero DOAs? Bwaha. On something simple like a Roku, easy. On an integrated device of a computer's complexity (parts, connections, amount of solder, etc), with the production and shipping volume of a less complex toy, all sold at a loss per unit? All made with just about the cheapest, if not the cheapest labor?

Do you want to pay $400 MSRP? Or $600+?

 

[ThinClient]

Don't be so naive.

As already stated, shipping damage can occur without obvious box damage.


And you seriously misunderstand the economics of these things. Full inspections, to ensure zero DOAs? Bwaha. On something simple like a Roku, easy. On an integrated device of a computer's complexity (parts, connections, amount of solder, etc), with the production and shipping volume of a less complex toy, all sold at a loss per unit? All made with just about the cheapest, if not the cheapest labor?

Do you want to pay $400 MSRP? Or $600+?

Why can't they write an applet that runs diagnostics quickly? Just because you can't imagine it happening doesn't mean that there isn't a reasonable way to get the job done.

Shipping damage without obvious box damage means that the item was packed poorly, resulting in responsibility still falling on the manufacturer's shoulders.

Passing on outrageous prices to the customer is irrelevant. It's yet another disservice to the customer. I don't care if they bankrupt themselves trying to get it right. That's their problem. If they're going to jack the price up hilariously, that's still their problem when I don't buy their overpriced piece of shit.