Should necessities be under controle of the government.

[Vic]

Should necessities be under controle of the government?

NO.

 

[ICRS]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Since ICRS didn't come back to this thread, he obvioyusly didn't intend it to be a real one

I didn't come back because I just got back from work.

I breaks my heart when I see people having to pan handle on the streets. More needs to be done to help these people. Infact on my way to work today, someone who looked no more than 20 years old was on the streets asking for money to get home to new york. .

This is a free country... so you can feel free to donate more of your own time and money to help whomever you choose.

I gave at the office... 32% of my income last year, to be exact.

Also, like you, I can choose to donate more of my time and money to help whomever I choose to help, if and when I choose to do so.

See how that works?

Some people are greedy and make the wrong choice, therefore the choice must be made for them.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ICRS
Some people are greedy and make the wrong choice, therefore the choice must be made for them.

By who? Other greedy people prone to making the wrong choice?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Since ICRS didn't come back to this thread, he obvioyusly didn't intend it to be a real one

I didn't come back because I just got back from work.

I breaks my heart when I see people having to pan handle on the streets. More needs to be done to help these people. Infact on my way to work today, someone who looked no more than 20 years old was on the streets asking for money to get home to new york. .

This is a free country... so you can feel free to donate more of your own time and money to help whomever you choose.

I gave at the office... 32% of my income last year, to be exact.

Also, like you, I can choose to donate more of my time and money to help whomever I choose to help, if and when I choose to do so.

See how that works?

Some people are greedy and make the wrong choice, therefore the choice must be made for them.

oh really??! Is that you Mr. Stalin??!

fuck that... come try to take it from me comrade.

EDIT: Congrats, you just made my sig...

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: daishi5
Soviet Russia used to be a very smart nation, they beat us into space, they also had government controlled necessities. When russian students visited America under exchange programs they thought we had set up fake supermarkets to impress them because they did not believe that it was possible for us to have so much food available to us. The soviets had a huge society, with a strong government, strong central planning and many bright people. They were not stupid, they tried their best to plan out the best society. When they came to America to find out what our life was like, they could not believe that success could come without planning.

When a Russian delegation came to San Francisco in the early 1960s and got caught in a traffic jam, one of its members said, "I'll bet they collected all these cars here to impress us."

Boris Yeltsin reacted somewhat differently to a Houston supermarket in 1989. He expressed astonishment at the abundance and variety of the products he saw, but in his autobiography Against the Grain he describes the experience as "shattering": "When I saw those shelves crammed with hundreds, thousands of cans, cartons, and goods of every possible sort, for the first time I felt quite frankly sick with despair for the Soviet people. That such a potentially super-rich country as ours has been brought to a state of such poverty! It is terrible to think of it."

Quoted Article

I know it seems crazy that a price driven economy does a good job, and it seems that we could eliminate all that waste with good planning, but the planning is beyond the ability of men. Lastly, with so many people suffering from obesity in America, what in the world makes you think that our food supply needs help?

Yup, and back in the 1980's PBS aired a documentary called "People Like Us". The Documentary was intended to show the hardships experienced by the poor during an ongoing recession. The Soviets also re-broadcast the program in the USSR in an attempt to embarrass the USA. The program had the opposite effect. People in the USSR saw that even the poor in America had automobiles, televisions, and microwaves.

A planned economy doesn't give everyone a good standard of living. Instead, it gives everyone only the bare minimum. Not "everyone's rich", but instead, "everyone's poor".

ZV

 

[Napalm]

Originally posted by: badnewcastle
Look around the world...

Countries that control food have more people starving then countries that don't control food.

Countries with universal health care have more people dying then then in the US... WTF do you call our system now? you don't need health insurance or even to pay for health care you can go to your local hospital and they pretty much have to take care of you.

Gas, it will adjust itself just like it has every other time this has happened. If you take inflation into account then we are only paying a few cents per gallon now then what we are supposed to be paying. It will fix itself better then the government can.

Atleast we have electricity!!!! Again this is another if you look around the world issue, there are more people without electricty in countries that control it.

Housing too!!! More people in the US own houses then most of the rest of the world!!!!!

The government needs to stay out... there are many problems caused and/or made worse because they try to control things too much. The US is based on Capitalism and/or free markets and when people fail demand drops and prices drop. That's how it fixes itself and it's been the best system so far around the world.

Do you have any data to support that load of crap you just pulled outta your a$$?

 

[JohnnyGage]

Originally posted by: Napalm

Originally posted by: badnewcastle
Look around the world...

Countries that control food have more people starving then countries that don't control food.

Countries with universal health care have more people dying then then in the US... WTF do you call our system now? you don't need health insurance or even to pay for health care you can go to your local hospital and they pretty much have to take care of you.

Gas, it will adjust itself just like it has every other time this has happened. If you take inflation into account then we are only paying a few cents per gallon now then what we are supposed to be paying. It will fix itself better then the government can.

Atleast we have electricity!!!! Again this is another if you look around the world issue, there are more people without electricty in countries that control it.

Housing too!!! More people in the US own houses then most of the rest of the world!!!!!

The government needs to stay out... there are many problems caused and/or made worse because they try to control things too much. The US is based on Capitalism and/or free markets and when people fail demand drops and prices drop. That's how it fixes itself and it's been the best system so far around the world.

Do you have any data to support that load of crap you just pulled outta your a$$?

I think he does, it's called Zimbabwe.

 

[sandorski]

No.

Some things, like Water/Sewage, make sense to have Public Control, but even they are not absolutely necessary. Wherever there is Public Need and no reasonable way to ensure affordability to the Masses, then Public control is usually the best way to provide for that Need. However, in the case of Food for eg, Private control can work very well and even better than Public control if certain conditions exist. One of those is Competition, which is fairly easy to achieve for Food/Energy, but more difficult for Water/Sewage/Roads. In the past Electricity was a reasonable Public controlled utility, mainly due to the high Cost of infrastructure developement, especially to areas where Profit was a very long term possibility. Once that extensive network was built though, Private Competition became possible and thusly Public Control was transferred to Private Control in a gradual way.

The OP brings up Hunger as a reason for total Government Control, but what possible good can that do? Those people are not hungry due to a lack of Food being available, but due to a lack of ability for them to acquire that Food(for a variety of reasons). If the situation was that there was simply a lack of Food provided by Private Control, then turning Food over to the Government would have merit, but that is simply not the case. To meet the Need of the hungry, Government can provide the means to those people, either Monetarily or with Food, but it certainly does not need to control Food Production to do that.

In terms of Energy, well we are approaching a time where Government Control of certain Energy *might* become necessary. That would be very expensive though and it seems to me that the money used to subsidize Oil based Energy(a likely form of Government Control) would be far better spent by building Mass Transit systems which not only provide affordable Transportation to the masses, but also decreases Energy useage.

It is better to implement the Best solution over Simple solutions. Just turning Basic Needs over to Government Control is a simple solution. However, just turning everything over to Private Control is an equally Simple Solution. Both ideas are not so much born of Efficiency or Reasonable argument, but the fantasy of Idealogues with Blind Faith and Wishful Thinking at their core. Weigh all options, choose what's best at the time, but be mindful that things change and what might be a good idea now may not be a good idea later. When that time comes, change.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: badnewcastle

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: badnewcastle
Look around the world...

Countries that control food have more people starving then countries that don't control food.

Countries with universal health care have more people dying then then in the US... WTF do you call our system now? you don't need health insurance or even to pay for health care you can go to your local hospital and they pretty much have to take care of you.

Gas, it will adjust itself just like it has every other time this has happened. If you take inflation into account then we are only paying a few cents per gallon now then what we are supposed to be paying. It will fix itself better then the government can.

Atleast we have electricity!!!! Again this is another if you look around the world issue, there are more people without electricty in countries that control it.

Housing too!!! More people in the US own houses then most of the rest of the world!!!!!

The government needs to stay out... there are many problems caused and/or made worse because they try to control things too much. The US is based on Capitalism and/or free markets and when people fail demand drops and prices drop. That's how it fixes itself and it's been the best system so far around the world.

You are full of factual errors. Countries with universal healthcare, which are ALL other first world nations, all have longer life expectancy than we do.

I'd be willing to bet that people generally live healthier in those countries because of personal choices. Either way the US when considered compared to the world has very good life expectancy.

don't you know Cuba is a first world country? ALL countries that have universal healthcare are first world nations, and they ALL live longer!

OP is smoking crack.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Regarding the utilities--electricity, gas, and water, you might ask yourself whether or not those services are amenable to perfect competition or even competition itself, for that matter. Don't like the electric company? Too bad! You don't have a choice of five others like you do with ordinary widgets. Also, utilities require having easements and to a certain extent some degree of eminent domain. Because of the need for easements and the tremendous amount of infrastructure needed which makes any sort of competition impossible, it might make sense to have the government own the utilities or at the very least regulate them.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Since ICRS didn't come back to this thread, he obvioyusly didn't intend it to be a real one

I didn't come back because I just got back from work.

I breaks my heart when I see people having to pan handle on the streets. More needs to be done to help these people. Infact on my way to work today, someone who looked no more than 20 years old was on the streets asking for money to get home to new york. .

This is a free country... so you can feel free to donate more of your own time and money to help whomever you choose.

I gave at the office... 32% of my income last year, to be exact.

Also, like you, I can choose to donate more of my time and money to help whomever I choose to help, if and when I choose to do so.

See how that works?

Some people are greedy and make the wrong choice, therefore the choice must be made for them.

You're greedy and you made the wrong choice, now give me all of your money.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Since ICRS didn't come back to this thread, he obvioyusly didn't intend it to be a real one

I didn't come back because I just got back from work.

I breaks my heart when I see people having to pan handle on the streets. More needs to be done to help these people. Infact on my way to work today, someone who looked no more than 20 years old was on the streets asking for money to get home to new york. .

and

Some people are greedy and make the wrong choice, therefore the choice must be made for them.

I agree. I think we should take those panhandlers and put them to work forcibly. Give them reasonable food and board and make them work 5 X 10 hours/week, then everyone wins.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: ICRS
Some people are greedy and make the wrong choice, therefore the choice must be made for them.

I agree. I think we should take those panhandlers and put them to work forcibly. Give them reasonable food and board and make them work 5 X 10 hours/week, then everyone wins.

:thumbsup: :laugh:

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ICRS
Topic Title: Should necessities be under control of the government.

Topic Summary: Food, water, healthcare, gas, electricity, housing, ect.

Yes to a point, because its clear private Corporations cannot be trusted.

There used to be Government "REGULATION" and "OVERSIGHT" to keep corporations from raping, pillaging and gouging.

Republicans lifted all regulation resulting in this free for all environment for the corporations and the wealthy.

It will either be corrected by a total collapse of the U.S. or a total new Revolution by the people against the Corporations.

I think I have it figured out... you are a socialist arent you? I dont know why I didnt pick up on it sooner.

I'm an American. You wouldn't pick up on that because you hate America.

This country did great before domination by the giant Corporations.

They are killing this country more everyday. Wonder why you don't see that.

You mean before the 20th Century? Rockefeller created Standard Oil in 1870. John Pierpoint Morgan, a private citizen, bailed out the US GOVERNMENT in 1895. How much more dominating can you get? I post this to point out your own hypocrisy and narrow sightedness, in believing that corporate power is a recent invention, purely by design of the Bush administration. Open your stupid eyes for once.