Should men also have the "right to choose"

[Lithium381]

Women have 100% control over if a child is born because she is the host of the child during pregnancy. If she wants the child, regardless of what the father wants, the child is born. If she doesn't want the child, regardless of what the father wants, the child is aborted.

In the case of the having the child against the mans wishes, i at least think the men should have a way to "opt out". The men and women share equal 50% responsibility in the conception of a child but only men are somehow held to account with no say in the matter. Women should bare 50% of the burden.

Main Point:
If a man decides (and legally attests) during the first trimester of pregnancy that he does not want the child, he is absolved from any legal responsibility and the woman still has HER own choice as to if she wants the child. No rights are removed from the woman. She still has the RIGHT TO CHOOSE, but the man also has a say in his future. The woman MUST alert the man within the appropriate timeframe to allow him to make a decision of forfeit any legal responsibility on his part.
Agree or Disagree?

 

[OCGuy]

Bay Area, huh? Go spout that idea off in any bar near you tonight with the femi-nazis and see how that goes over. Haha.

Anyway men have ways of not getting girls pregnant......we all know going into it that we are on the hook $$$ wise if mess up.

 

[UberNeuman]

you wanna "opt" out of supporting your new found bundle of joy - here it is....

don't have sex.....

no sex. no child.

 

[Jhhnn]

Men already made their choice when they decided to have sex with a woman. No form of contraception is perfect, and we all know that. We also understand that once impregnated, women have sole discretion wrt bringing the fetus to term.

You're suggesting that men get a do-over if anything goes against them, facilitated by limiting women's choices.

Don't want children? Then don't engage in the kind of sex that creates them, have a vasectomy, or embrace celibacy.

 

[OCGuy]

Don't want children? Then don't engage in the kind of sex that creates them, have a vasectomy, or embrace anal.

Fixed

 

[Lithium381]

So women accept 0% of repsosibility of the act of getting pregnant, yet have 100% say in the outcome of the pregnancy? What about the cases when the woman gets pregnant and the man wants the child but she aborts? She already made that choice when she decided to have sex with a man . . . sounds like a double standard. Shouldn't she be held to the same bar? It should have been HER responsibility to get cut or take the appropriate measures to avoid pregnancy.

 

[Jhhnn]

So women accept 0% of repsosibility of the act of getting pregnant, yet have 100% say in the outcome of the pregnancy?

Only in your own twisted logic. They recognize the same risks that men do. Because it's their body, they have choices after the fact that men don't.

Too bad that the theoretical fetus can't be transferred from her body to his for gestation, at which point all of this mewling would cease entirely.

 

[monovillage]

I agree, the guy should be able to drop about $1,000 and say "now it's really your choice" and walk away with no future encumbrance.

 

[LumbergTech]

I agree, the guy should be able to drop about $1,000 and say "now it's really your choice" and walk away with no future encumbrance.

Really? He should troll the woman and try to bully her into having an abortion?

 

[monovillage]

Really? He should troll the woman and try to bully her into having an abortion?

Not at all, he should pay as much as a normal abortion would cost. Make his choice about abortion or birth and not be on the hook for the next 18 years.

 

[UberNeuman]

Not at all, he should pay as much as a normal abortion would cost. Make his choice about abortion or birth and not be on the hook for the next 18 years.

So, you're for the government bailing him out...

 

[Lithium381]

Really? He should troll the woman and try to bully her into having an abortion?

I think the point is that it DOES NOT REMOVE THE WOMANS RIGHT TO CHOOSE!! This still gives her 100% right to decide what's best for her body and her life.


Jnnn and Luxemburg can you explain in a few sentences why this would be a bad thing for society?

 

[Jhhnn]

I agree, the guy should be able to drop about $1,000 and say "now it's really your choice" and walk away with no future encumbrance.

Not at all, he should pay as much as a normal abortion would cost. Make his choice about abortion or birth and not be on the hook for the next 18 years.

Do-over! Do-over!

If you don't like the way the dice came up, you shouldn't have rolled 'em. You knew the rules of the game when you did.

 

[monovillage]

So, you're for the government bailing him out...

How so? If the girl decides to have an abortion she has it with the money. If she decides to give birth and do the smart thing and give it up for adoption she keeps the $1,000. If she decides to have the baby and keep it she gets to keep the $1,000 and live a rewarding life as a single mother.

 

[monovillage]

Do-over! Do-over!

If you don't like the way the dice came up, you shouldn't have rolled 'em. You knew the rules of the game when you did.

You mean like the do-over of an abortion? You not only approve of the woman having them, but making someone else pay for them.

 

[UberNeuman]

How so? If the girl decides to have an abortion she has it with the money. If she decides to give birth and do the smart thing and give it up for adoption she keeps the $1,000. If she decides to have the baby and keep it she gets to keep the $1,000 and live a rewarding life as a single mother.

Lot's of "If's" - not much real world experience in your statement...

IF IF IF....

 

[monovillage]

Lot's of "If's" - not much real world experience in your statement...

IF IF IF....

I have real world experience, she picked option #1. I was pitching for option #4 of getting married and having a family.

 

[Jhhnn]

I think the point is that it DOES NOT REMOVE THE WOMANS RIGHT TO CHOOSE!! This still gives her 100% right to decide what's best for her body and her life.


Jnnn and Luxemburg can you explain in a few sentences why this would be a bad thing for society?

No, no it doesn't. A woman's choice about what's best for her body & her life often has deep moral implications wrt abortion.

Go ahead- tell me how many guys discuss that while their dick is turning turgid... how many make any effort to understand their partner's views before making the plunge...

 

[UberNeuman]

You mean like the do-over of an abortion? You not only approve of the woman having them, but making someone else pay for them.

and you approve the father not being responsible for his flock....

\and low income families tend to find that needed support with government programs...

\time for the bad daddy bail out... lol...

 

[Lithium381]

Do-over! Do-over!

If you don't like the way the dice came up, you shouldn't have rolled 'em. You knew the rules of the game when you did.

a do-over like having an abortion?

 

[Jhhnn]

You mean like the do-over of an abortion? You not only approve of the woman having them, but making someone else pay for them.

You knew that possibility existed when you threw the dice, and you knew the choice wasn't your own.

 

[monovillage]

and you approve the father not being responsible for his sires....

\and low income families tend to find that needed support with government programs...

\time for the bad daddy bail out... lol...

As it is now the woman has total control and all the cards. She can even name someone not the genetic father and in many cases they still have to pay child support.

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/phil/blphil_ethbio_patfraud.htm

 

[Lithium381]

No, no it doesn't. A woman's choice about what's best for her body & her life often has deep moral implications wrt abortion.

and a man cannot think deeply about the moral implications for the rest of his life one way or the other to participate or not participate in the childs life?

Go ahead- tell me how many guys discuss that while their dick is turning turgid... how many make any effort to understand their partner's views before making the plunge...

how many women think about it when their v-v is getting turgid and wet? how many make an effort to understand their partners views before making the plunge?

 

[dali71]

There's a good article on Salon about this:
A man’s right to choose

Some maverick feminists agree with this view. Karen DeCrow, an attorney who served as president of the National Organization for Women from 1974 to 1977, has written that “if a woman makes a unilateral decision to bring pregnancy to term, and the biological father does not, and cannot, share in this decision, he should not be liable for 21 years of support … autonomous women making independent decisions about their lives should not expect men to finance their choice.”

Yet, by and large, feminists and pro-choice activists have not been sympathetic to calls for men’s reproductive freedom. “If there is a birth, the man has an obligation to support the child,” says Marcia Greenberger, co-president of the National Women’s Law Center. “The distinction with respect to abortion is the physical toll that it takes on a woman to carry a fetus to term, which doesn’t have any translation for men. Once the child is born, neither can walk away from the obligations of parenthood.” (Actually, a woman can give up the child for adoption, often without the father’s consent, and be free of any further obligation.)

Indeed, on the issue of choice for men, staunch supporters of abortion rights can sound like an eerie echo of the other side: “They have a choice — use condoms, get sterilized or keep their pants on.” “They should think about the consequences before they have sex.” (The irony is not lost on men’s choice advocates or pro-lifers.) Yes, some admit, it’s unfair that women still have a choice after conception and men don’t, but biology isn’t fair. As a male friend of mine succinctly put it, “Them’s the breaks.”

 

[Lithium381]

You knew that possibility existed when you threw the dice, and you knew the choice wasn't your own.

But WHY does the man not have the same option? You have yet to answer why a man cannot make a decision that will affect the rest of his life, and yet the woman is allowed to make that choice? By the same token you're saying you don't approve of abortion AT ALL because "she should have thought of that before rolling the dice"?