Should it be a crime to be lazy?

[DaShen]

I have been reading the fat and poor threads and now there are looting thread about lazy bastards who would rather steal than work an honest day's living. I think it should be a crime to be so lazy that you are too fat to do anything, so lazy you won't earn your own living even when there are plenty of jobs out there (at least join the army, or cut grass), or so lazy they have to steal from sick and elderly to get by.

Walking in downtown, there are somehomeless people who collect cans and other perishables to redeem for money. I have more respect for them because at least they are doing something.

 

[FoBoT]

how about nobody help the lazy so they just die naturally. the way they did 200 years ago

 

[captains]

did u get arrested for this already? is this why your asking?

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
how about nobody help the lazy so they just die naturally. the way they did 200 years ago

I agree. We should put a reasonable cap on social help.

 

[FoBoT]

BTW , i FULLY support the return of corporal punishment for criminals, caning is a VERY VERY VERY GOOD IDEA for petty crimes

 

[daveymark]

You call it lazy, I call it working smarter, not harder

 

[GasX]

If the Federal government stuck to just enforcing the constitution like it is supposed to, you wouldn't have people feeling like the government should bail them out - because they would know it aint gonna happen...

Now take this sh!t to P&N!

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
BTW , i FULLY support the return of corporal punishment for criminals, caning is a VERY VERY VERY GOOD IDEA for petty crimes

it works really well in singapore, and singapore has a great judicial system

 

[Zanix]

The "work shy" were also executed in Nazi Germany. Along with jews, cathloics, funny looking, etc...

Not to go calling Fascism or anything... just pointing that out.

 

[misle]

Arrested? I thought the US was a FREE country?

What's next? Have me arrested for over-sleeping? Or maybe walking too slow?

 

[shud]

The prisons are already crowded enough. How are you going to fit 3/4 of the population into them?

 

[Zanix]

Originally posted by: misle
Arrested? I thought the US was a FREE country?

What's next? Have me arrested for over-sleeping? Or maybe walking too slow?

Yeah! FREE to work an 80hr week!! Sucks to be < upper middle class!

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: misle
Arrested? I thought the US was a FREE country?

What's next? Have me arrested for over-sleeping? Or maybe walking too slow?

I am talking about overly lazy.

For example:
1) Claiming welfare and food stamps for years and not looking for a job in the process. (It should be a requirement to get a job in 3-6 months from the claim). Dropping the money on alcohol or a new TV instead of necesseties and then claiming you don't get enough.
2) Eating so much and not exercising and then claiming medical disabilities and benfits and still not trying to fix the situation. Then suing corporations for your laziness.
3) Being a "dependant" till age 30+.
... stuff like that. Only things that really affect society in a bad way.

 

[DaShen]

If this stuff became a crime and we cut off benefits to people who recurringly claim benefits, or at least have consultations to assess what action must be taken, society would be better off. Caning or labor work would be good solutions.

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: shud
The prisons are already crowded enough. How are you going to fit 3/4 of the population into them?

shut down all prisons

jails while people wait for trial are needed, i suppose

but incarceration doesn't work. it is obviously a failed method of punishment

 

[Howard]

http://sunsite.wits.ac.za/holistic/bradbury.htm

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: shud
The prisons are already crowded enough. How are you going to fit 3/4 of the population into them?

shut down all prisons

jails while people wait for trial are needed, i suppose

but incarceration doesn't work. it is obviously a failed method of punishment

At least restructor the prison systems for less people more rehabilitation. Most inmates are drug users (alcoholics or worse), come from battered homes, and 90-5% of them were either molested as kids or will soon be molested in prison.

Community Supervision and actual community rehabilitation is necessary.

 

[Zanix]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: misle
Arrested? I thought the US was a FREE country?

What's next? Have me arrested for over-sleeping? Or maybe walking too slow?

I am talking about overly lazy.

For example:
1) Claiming welfare and food stamps for years and not looking for a job in the process. (It should be a requirement to get a job in 3-6 months from the claim). Dropping the money on alcohol or a new TV instead of necesseties and then claiming you don't get enough.
2) Eating so much and not exercising and then claiming medical disabilities and benfits and still not trying to fix the situation. Then suing corporations for your laziness.
3) Being a "dependant" till age 30+.
... stuff like that. Only things that really affect society in a bad way.

Who knows if new laws would make people work for a living. People that don't want to work have their ways of not working. Something bad would give in another area, I think.

In some unpredictable way, it might save the country more by paying the lazy to be lazy, rather than trying to force the lazy to be productive.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Zanix
Who knows if new laws would make people work for a living. People that don't want to work have their ways of not working. Something bad would give in another area, I think.

In some unpredictable way, it might save the country more by paying the lazy to be lazy, rather than trying to force the lazy to be productive.

That is why there are so many ghettos and barrios because we "encourage by paying" the lazy and unproductive. If we mandated working in a reasonable time after claiming benefits, short run it might cost more, but long run, it would make society better.

 

[Zanix]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: shud
The prisons are already crowded enough. How are you going to fit 3/4 of the population into them?

shut down all prisons

jails while people wait for trial are needed, i suppose

but incarceration doesn't work. it is obviously a failed method of punishment

At least restructor the prison systems for less people more rehabilitation. Most inmates are drug users (alcoholics or worse), come from battered homes, and 90-5% of them were either molested as kids or will soon be molested in prison.

Community Supervision and actual community rehabilitation is necessary.

The idea of prisions rehabilitating is silly I think.

If I goto prision for having some pirated mp3s, I'm not going to come back from prision with the idea that software piracy is wrong. (well maybe) I think I'd come back all f'ed up from either killing/stabbing somebody or getting raped. Post tramatic stress disorder would probably ruin the remaining years of my life.

I guess my point is that prisions would need to be brainwashing centers, rather than fenced in ghettos.

 

[Zanix]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: Zanix
Who knows if new laws would make people work for a living. People that don't want to work have their ways of not working. Something bad would give in another area, I think.

In some unpredictable way, it might save the country more by paying the lazy to be lazy, rather than trying to force the lazy to be productive.

That is why there are so many ghettos and barrios because we "encourage by paying" the lazy and unproductive. If we mandated working in a reasonable time after claiming benefits, short run it might cost more, but long run, it would make society better.

Well that idea needs to be introduced to people. I think of how I "learned" that I needed to goto college, or even just graduate HS, and I don't think that is part of the poor's insight into the future. I don't think people have any idea how to get out of poverty. My schools and parents pushed me/assumed that I'd go to college. I doubt poor schools are the same way.


Edit: and even if the poor knew the key would be education, how would anybody know where to go to get money for that? Is a bank going to float the poor all kinds of money? *I* know there's ALL KINDS of money to goto school if you can show you're poor, but do poor people know that? *shrug*

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Zanix
The idea of prisions rehabilitating is silly I think.

If I goto prision for having some pirated mp3s, I'm not going to come back from prision with the idea that software piracy is wrong. (well maybe) I think I'd come back all f'ed up from either killing/stabbing somebody or getting raped. Post tramatic stress disorder would probably ruin the remaining years of my life.

I guess my point is that prisions would need to be brainwashing centers, rather than fenced in ghettos.

I disagree. I work in this area as a programmer, and if the restructoring was to lessen the use of jail as punishment (more coporal and more actual community rehab), then jail could be restructored for rehabilitation. Because jail is so often used, it is too hard to restructor the system. It should only be used for violent or frequent repeat offenders that can hurt society. Then with the staff to inmate ratio being more normalized, restructoring could happen.

Instead, for minor offenses and non-violent offenses, community supervision and community rehabilitation could work, but this needs restructoring, too. Corporal punishment could be used for first-time non-violent crimes followed with community rehab.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Zanix
Well that idea needs to be introduced to people. I think of how I "learned" that I needed to goto college, or even just graduate HS, and I don't think that is part of the poor's insight into the future. I don't think people have any idea how to get out of poverty. My schools and parents pushed me/assumed that I'd go to college. I doubt poor schools are the same way.


Edit: and even if the poor knew the key would be education, how would anybody know where to go to get money for that? Is a bank going to float the poor all kinds of money? *I* know there's ALL KINDS of money to goto school if you can show you're poor, but do poor people know that? *shrug*

Very good first point. This idea definitely needs to be taught early on. Poor school are usually taught by locals and therefore the teaches do not have this mentallity either. It is pretty sad.

There have been outreaches to try to change affectively the poor school systems, but usually the community as well as most of the teachers resist it. Some teacher even spearhead resistance because it usually means they will lose their job, because they don't really teach. A lot of money goes to the poor schools, but it usually ends up filling the pockets of the department heads and principals (a lot of red-tape). Upper middle class areas tend to get the same amount of funding. The difference is that the money is more wisely spent and the mentallity at the school is totally different. This is the parents fault as well as the teachers. Most of the good teachers burn out at poor schools because of the mentallity taught there, it is sad. I know 3 guys in TFA and one who has been working at a poor school for 5 years, all burnt out. All 4 of these people went into teaching to make a difference, all were very successful in college (engineering, C.S., biochem...). Throwing moey at poor school which won't use it wisely is the wrong idea.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: DaShen
I am talking about overly lazy.

For example:
1) Claiming welfare and food stamps for years and not looking for a job in the process. (It should be a requirement to get a job in 3-6 months from the claim). Dropping the money on alcohol or a new TV instead of necesseties and then claiming you don't get enough.
2) Eating so much and not exercising and then claiming medical disabilities and benfits and still not trying to fix the situation. Then suing corporations for your laziness.
3) Being a "dependant" till age 30+.
... stuff like that. Only things that really affect society in a bad way.

Your list is too short. Add these:

4) Trust fund babies
5) The idle rich (aka over half of them)
6) Opportunists/Price gougers
7) slum lords (commercial & residential)
8) heirs/heiresses
9) investors(capitalists)
10) anyone who has time to play 3+ full rounds of golf during the work week.

That's a good start. Probably need about 10 more like #'s 4-10 though.

 

[Zanix]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: Zanix
The idea of prisions rehabilitating is silly I think.

If I goto prision for having some pirated mp3s, I'm not going to come back from prision with the idea that software piracy is wrong. (well maybe) I think I'd come back all f'ed up from either killing/stabbing somebody or getting raped. Post tramatic stress disorder would probably ruin the remaining years of my life.

I guess my point is that prisions would need to be brainwashing centers, rather than fenced in ghettos.

I disagree. I work in this area as a programmer, and if the restructoring was to lessen the use of jail as punishment (more coporal and more actual community rehab), then jail could be restructored for rehabilitation. Because jail is so often used, it is too hard to restructor the system. It should only be used for violent or frequent repeat offenders that can hurt society. Then with the staff to inmate ratio being more normalized, restructoring could happen.

Instead, for minor offenses and non-violent offenses, community supervision and community rehabilitation could work, but this needs restructoring, too. Corporal punishment could be used for first-time non-violent crimes followed with community rehab.

I think we agree here, I just worded it wrong. Not "brain washing" in so many cases, as in non-violent offenses and the like, but some form of corporal punishment would do I think. I think it's counter-productive to turn theives into "murderers" or worse, which is what I suspect 10 years of hard time would do to someone.

I think for violent offenders prisions serve a couple purposes: getting these people out of the general public, and a deterant. Although I think the latter is less and less effective. I guess it really depends on the case, but I can't imagine a person that has the killer instinct to ever shake that. Although I can imagine how I could become a killer, so maybe the opposite is possible.

Prison is f'ed up. Don't get me wrong, but I think the person that comes out of it rehabilitated is the exception. (as things stand now)

As AA is to alcoholics, prision should be to criminals. If possible, turn people around rather than shatter them. I also think though that some people are just too f'ed up to make it along with everybody else. So that's what the small enclosed city of "prision" would be for.