Should Intel ditch "Celeron", or does it serve a purpose?

[VirtualLarry]

Same with Pentium and Athlon btw.

But true, maybe keep Baytrail/Kabini as Celeron/Sempron and use Pentium/Athlon for the bigger toys.

Or, maybe use "Pentium" and "Celeron" as prefixes. Get rid of the stupidly-named "Core". Call the Pentium(existing)/i3/i5/i7/i9 (HEDT) as "Pentium i1 / Pentium i3 / Pentium i5 / Pentium i7 / Pentium i9". Call the Atom chips as "Celeron i3 / Celeron i5 / Celeron i7".

 

[cbn]

Same with Pentium and Athlon btw.

But true, maybe keep Baytrail/Kabini as Celeron/Sempron and use Pentium/Athlon for the bigger toys.

Or maybe just call atom, "atom" like they did in the old days.

And keep atom in mobile, just like they did in the old days.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Or, maybe use "Pentium" and "Celeron" as prefixes. Get rid of the stupidly-named "Core". Call the Pentium(existing)/i3/i5/i7/i9 (HEDT) as "Pentium i1 / Pentium i3 / Pentium i5 / Pentium i7 / Pentium i9". Call the Atom chips as "Celeron i3 / Celeron i5 / Celeron i7".

I like Core. Pentium is a discount brand today like Celeron. Its not coming back as a high end brand.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Or maybe just call atom, "atom" like they did in the old days.

And keep atom in mobile, just like they did in the old days.

You have to talk to the OEMs about that. Its those that got Atom and Kabini into that segment.

 

[cbn]

Regarding cost for the lowest end desktops here is size comparison for the 22nm generation:

Bay Trail-D : 102mm2 (this includes PCH)
Core 2C/4T with GT2: 133mm, but needs separate PCH

And here is the 14nm generation:

Braswell: 87mm2 (this includes PCH)
Broadwell 2C/4T with GT2: 82mm, but needs separate PCH.

Looking at the transition of 22nm to 14nm the die size discrepany between Core and atom is shrinking (this most likely due to Braswell having a 16EU iGPU up from the 4EU on Bay Trail while the 2C/4T GT2 die only gained slightly going from 20EU to 24EU).

Based on that analysis, we *might* see Core overtake Atom for lowest cost desktop. (At least I think it is possible for a harvested 1C/2T to overtake something like Braswell N3150 quad core).

 

[ShintaiDK]

You are not getting any 1C/2T Core chips. They would have to use fully functional chips to fill that if they tried.

 

[cbn]

You are not getting any 1C/2T Core chips. They would have to use fully functional chips to fill that if they tried.

Late in the run, they should have a sufficient accumulation of chips with a defect in one of the cores.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Late in the run, they should have a sufficient accumulation of chips with a defect in one of the cores.

No. We know how it works from AMD with worse yields. Even there they had to sell perfectly good chips as reduced.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Larry, are you thinking of adding Skylake Celeron to your collection?

 

[Arachnotronic]

I like Core. Pentium is a discount brand today like Celeron. Its not coming back as a high end brand.

I agree. It's in my mind now that Celeron/Pentium are the low end brands and Core i-series is definitely "high end" in my mind.

It would be foolish for Intel to go backwards here.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I agree. It's in my mind now that Celeron/Pentium are the low end brands and Core i-series is definitely "high end" in my mind.

Not in mine. Whenever I lay my eyes on a modern Pentium chip I always remember how bad-ass they were prior the infamous re-branding.

Same works for the Celeron brand, I remember how crappy there were...

AMD FX comes next....

Just imagine 911 Porsche becoming Boxter. Don't really care what names they are called as long as they perform.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Larry, are you thinking of adding Skylake Celeron to your collection?

I saw some article that said that they were going to be released Q4 '15. Well, they're not here yet. (Apparently, Provantage had them for pre-order, and the 2.9Ghz one was like $57 or so.) I thought about it briefly, and probably would have, if Newegg had them in stock, but I actually just ordered another G4400 to play with. (Since I now have two boards incoming.)

I also started thinking about coolers for them. They come with stock coolers, but unlike the G3258, that was designed for OCing, and included a copper-cored heatsink, the G4400 was only designed to run at stock, so probably only includes an Al heatsink.

Debating on opening one of my BNIB G3258 CPUs, and snagging the heatsink. I really don't want to spend another $30 on a tower heatsink that requires a backplate. (Ok, I know that some of them are cheaper, with rebate, but rebates are a PITA.)

I have some OCZ Vendetta coolers, but those only came with S775 mounts (and AMD).

Edit: Page 14 of this PDF from HP claims that the SKL Celerons are ETA Q1 '16.
http://h20195.www2.hp.com/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=c04790512

These coolers look nice. $45 though. (Dual fans)
New "212 X"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=13C-000X-00037

 

[dark zero]

Agreed or going like this
-------

Intel Small Core

Atom X3 --> Atom X5 --> Atom X7 --> Celeron

Intel Big Core

Pentium --> Core i3 --> Core i5 --> Core i7 --> Core XT (for HEDT chips)
--------

As for AMD Small Core they better ditch the E1 until A6

Geode (Replacing E2)--> Duron (Replacing A4) --> Sempron (Replacing A6)

AMD Big Core

Athlon (No iGPU on desktop/replaceA8 on mobile) = A8 --> Turion (No iGPU on desktoo/replace A10 on mobile) = A10

AMD High Performance/ HEDT

Phenom (With iGPU) = FX (no iGPU)

 

[Magic Carpet]

I saw some article that said that they were going to be released Q4 '15. Well, they're not here yet. (Apparently, Provantage had them for pre-order, and the 2.9Ghz one was like $57 or so.) I thought about it briefly, and probably would have, if Newegg had them in stock, but I actually just ordered another G4400 to play with. (Since I now have two boards incoming.)

You are faaaast, already got two incoming D:

I also started thinking about coolers for them. They come with stock coolers, but unlike the G3258, that was designed for OCing, and included a copper-cored heatsink, the G4400 was only designed to run at stock, so probably only includes an Al heatsink.

I would only bother replacing stock HSF if I needed to get rid of the starting "revving up" during system boot. About the only annoying thing with stock fans.

Debating on opening one of my BNIB G3258 CPUs, and snagging the heatsink. I really don't want to spend another $30 on a tower heatsink that requires a backplate. (Ok, I know that some of them are cheaper, with rebate, but rebates are a PITA.)

Yeah, do that. You have so much gear, make use of it

I have some OCZ Vendetta coolers, but those only came with S775 mounts (and AMD).

If you had a Noctua cooler, Noctua Support would send you an appropriate mounting kit free of charge. So if you ever buy one, make sure to keep the receipt, just in case.

Edit: Page 14 of this PDF from HP claims that the SKL Celerons are ETA Q1 '16.
http://h20195.www2.hp.com/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=c04790512

Thanks for the info. Ark doesn't list the Celeron SKUs yet.

 

[cbn]

No. We know how it works from AMD with worse yields. Even there they had to sell perfectly good chips as reduced.

For AMD it would be 2C/2T since the starting die is 4C/4T. This rather than Intel using harvested 1C/2T from a 2C/4T die.

With that mentioned, the main problem with AMD using harvested 2C/2T big core in place of 4C/4T small core is die size (245mm for big core vs. 102mm2 for small core). So they might not be able to do this.

This unlike the analysis of the Intel chips where the 14nm 2C/4T GT2 die is actually smaller than the 14nm Braswell 4C/4T atom die (the 2C/4T GT2 die does need a separate PCH though).

So for Intel using harvested 1C/2T is likely cheaper than using 4C/4T atom for Celeron desktop.

 

[sm625]

Intel has been doing some very strange things with their Celeron brand for quite some time. For years there have been Celeron models that are faster than certain Pentium models, namely Core architecture Celerons vs Atom architecture Pentiums. There are even some Celerons that are 3-5 years old that are actually faster than brand new Pentiums.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Not in mine. Whenever I lay my eyes on a modern Pentium chip I always remember how bad-ass they were prior the infamous re-branding.

Same works for the Celeron brand, I remember how crappy there were...

AMD FX comes next....

Just imagine 911 Porsche becoming Boxter. Don't really care what names they are called as long as they perform.

When I think Pentium, I honestly think Pentium 4/Pentium D/Netburst and shudder. Awful, awful times for Intel products.

 

[Magic Carpet]

When I think Pentium, I honestly think Pentium 4/Pentium D/Netburst and shudder. Awful, awful times for Intel products.

I think Pentium Pro. And when I think FX, I always think of the original FX series introduced a decade ago, not what happened after.

The Pentium Pro thus featured out of order execution, including speculative execution via register renaming. It also had a wider 36-bit address bus (usable by PAE), allowing it to access up to 64GB of memory.

The Pentium Pro P6 microarchitecture was used in one form or another by Intel for more than a decade. The pipeline would scale from its initial 150 MHz start, all the way up to 1.4 GHz with the "Tualatin" Pentium III. The design's various traits would continue after that in the derivative core called "Banias" in Pentium M and Intel Core (Yonah), which itself would evolve into the Core microarchitecture (Core 2 processor) in 2006 and onward.[7]

Pentium is easily the most recognizable brand Intel ever had. What happens today, is well... no comment.

 

[NTMBK]

When I think Pentium, I honestly think Pentium 4/Pentium D/Netburst and shudder. Awful, awful times for Intel products.

Pentium, Pentium Pro, Pentium II, Pentium III, Pentium M, all were fantastic chips- chips that laid the foundation for Intel's modern success. Even Pentium 4 had the occasional decent chip (Northwood!), though Prescott was a total disaster.

 

[Sweepr]

Honourable mention to Pentium M. Banias/Dothan were great CPUs.

 

[frozentundra123456]

It will never happen, but I would like to see intel just move up everything one step:
i7 = mainstream hexcore (I can dream cant I)
i5 = quad with hyperthreading
i3 = quad, no hyperthreading
Pentium = dual, with hyperthreading
Celeron = dual, no hyperthreading

And quit calling atom celeron and pentium. Just call it atom or think up some new name altogether.

 

[Magic Carpet]

It will never happen, but I would like to see intel just move up everything one step:
i7 = mainstream hexcore (I can dream cant I)
i5 = quad with hyperthreading
i3 = quad, no hyperthreading
Pentium = dual, with hyperthreading
Celeron = dual, no hyperthreading

And quit calling atom celeron and pentium. Just call it atom or think up some new name altogether.

+1.

 

[cbn]

It will never happen, but I would like to see intel just move up everything one step:
i7 = mainstream hexcore (I can dream cant I)
i5 = quad with hyperthreading
i3 = quad, no hyperthreading
Pentium = dual, with hyperthreading
Celeron = dual, no hyperthreading

I think it is predictable that as the Core i3 gets faster (say 3.9 Ghz to 4.1 Ghz with Kaby Lake, maybe sooner) there will be a 2C/4T that is clocked lower (branded Pentium).

Then maybe when the Core count on Mainstream increases to eight what used to be Core i3 (high clocked 2C/4T) does indeed become Pentium.

 

[aigomorla]

And quit calling atom celeron and pentium. Just call it atom or think up some new name altogether.

then what would u call an oddball like a C2770 which is a "atom" yet it has 8 cores..

 

[dave_the_nerd]

then what would u call an oddball like a C2770 which is a "atom" yet it has 8 cores..

I think they're rolling that stuff into the Xeon brand, unfortunately.

Anyway, w/r/t the thread topic - what is important is whether or not Intel thinks the Celeron brand serves a purpose. They'll ditch it when they're ready.