Should I use bigger wire?

[Sniper82]

I have a set of Logitech Z560's and have a question about the speaker wire. The wire I am using now is what came with it when I bought it used off someone. He said it was better than the retail wire the set came with. I heard the smaller the gauge the better?

I have some very thick brand new speaker wire in my closet which I was thinking about trying. My guess is its the thickest they make because it will barely(but does fit) go into the connectors on the back of the speakers and sub.

I don't know what gauge it is though. What would be the ideal gauge to use?

 

[Sniper82]

^^^

 

[ravedave]

what the hell are you talkign about?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I replaced the wires on my z560s a while ago. I put 18 gauge wires in and it fit fine. I think the wiring that came with the speakers was 24 gauge. I didn't really notice any sound quality improvement, I just needed longer wires, so that's why I did it. I doubt that the thickest speaker wire would fit with z560s. I've seen some Monster Cable at bb that has wires at thick as pencils.

Generally the thicker the better from what I understand. As long as it fits, I'd use the thickest you have.

 

[Sniper82]

Sorry I got in a hurry and didn't re-read it. It didn't make much sence to me either after going over it again .

 

[PowerEngineer]

You're right that thicker (and shorter) is better. Resistance is equal to the resistivity of the material (copper lower than aluminum, etc.) times the length divided by the cross sectional area. However, I doubt you'll hear any difference.

 

[Goi]

For speakers of that calibre and that cable distance, you're probably not going to be able to tell much of a difference once you hit 18AWG or thicker. Also remember that the AWG isn't linear, for every decrement in the number, you're doubling the thickness, i.e. 18AWG is twice as thick as 19AWG, or that 2 19AWG wires put together would make a 18AWG wire.

 

[merlocka]

18AWG is twice as thick as 19AWG, or that 2 19AWG wires put together would make a 18AWG wire.

I'd like "mathematical contradiction" for 1000, Alex.

AWG (American Wire Gauge, sometimes called B&S)

The next largest diameter always has a cross-sectional area that is 26% greater.

A change of 3 AWG numbers gives a doubling or having of the cross-sectional area.

 

[Woody419]

Fatter wire can generally give better sound. Lamp cord will not. Monster cable will give a slightly bigger bottom end, and roll off the highs (very slightly), Kimber Kable gives a balanced sound with slightly accented highs, Audioquest has a balanced sound. Monster sells a cable package to replace the stock Klipsch cables, so it must make some difference. Is it worth $60, only your ears can tell. Fat Radio Shack wires will be easy on your wallet and ease you mind knowing you did something.

 

[MasterHoss]

You won't hear a difference, but if you must, get some 16 gauge speaker wire (doesn't matter what brand). Also, you really don't have to worry about length of the speaker wire unless there is a large disparity between the lengths of all the wires (ie: length of speaker wires going to the front speakers are 10' and the length of the wires going to the surround speakers are 80'. At that point, you may have to mess with the signal delay which is something that you cannot change on multimedia speaker solutions).

I helped a friend "upgrade" his speaker wire to 16 gauge MonsterXP Monster Cable speaker wire ... it'll be fairly hard to get anything "larger" than that to fit.

 

[mattyrug]

Originally posted by: merlocka
18AWG is twice as thick as 19AWG, or that 2 19AWG wires put together would make a 18AWG wire.

I'd like "mathematical contradiction" for 1000, Alex.

AWG (American Wire Gauge, sometimes called B&S)

The next largest diameter always has a cross-sectional area that is 26% greater.

A change of 3 AWG numbers gives a doubling or having of the cross-sectional area.

Thank you, I was just about to correct that!
How much power do those things put out? How much load is going across the cables?
Remember that a 100 watt load driven across an 8ohm speaker will pull about 3 1/2 amps of current. Resistance limits current flowBut this is directly proportional to environmental factors (Cable Gauge, length of Wire, type of conductor, etc).
And according to the AWG standard, conductor area doubles with each reduction of three in AWG; a 13 AWG conductor has twice the copper of a 16 AWG conductor, a 10 AWG twice the copper of a 13 AWG, and so on.....

See here at Pro-Sound Web for the actual "White Papers"

Edit - I forgot to add that I just revamped all my power cabling to my computers, using 10/3 Cables to feed the Quad Boxes I made (Surge protected,of course about a 15ft run), and made all new power cables (12/3) to feed my PSU's, and monitors. It may sound like overkill, but my voltages were actually a little more stable. Why do they ship 400 watt PSU's with 18 & 24 Gauge Cables?? My steady voltages have nothing to to with my 3600 watt APC and Furman Voltage Regulators!

 

[Goi]

Oops! I guess you guys are right about the AWG ratings. For some reason I thought a 1 point decrement meant twice the cross-sectional area, but you guys proved me wrong. Thanks for correcting me! You learn something new every day

Anyway, my opinion still remains that you probably won't notice much of a difference in your situation. You need to be using higher fidelity speakers and running longer wire distances before you can hear much of a difference. Even then, in most cases 16AWG is sufficient, with 12AWG being recommended. As for differences in wire brand and types(Cu, OFC, Silver, Silver plated OFC, etc) its up to debate. The general view is that if there are differences, silver stuff tends to be brighter, and thicker cables tend to carry low frequency signals better(i.e. better bass), which is why some people bi-wire/bi-amp their speakers with lower gauge wire for their woofers and hgiher gauge wire for their tweeters. The scientific explanation is that of "skin effect", which is basically a theory that higher frequency signals travel on the circumference of the wire while lower frequency signals travel on the core of the wire. However, other skeptics argue that skin effect is only applicable in really high frequency signals, way beyond the 20Hz-20KHz audible range that we're concerned with. The debate rages on...

Personally I just run 12AWG whenever possible.

 

[merlocka]

Monster sells a cable package to replace the stock Klipsch cables, so it must make some difference

LOL, Monster sure want's you to think it will make a difference.

There have been numerous experiments, using valid A-B testing (with matched levels) which show that the differences between speakers wires (of high enough gauge to not cause excessive resistive loading) are not audible.

There have also been thousands of audiophiles and editors for magazines (ahem... Stereophile) which swear that anyone who can't hear the improved "front to back depth" and "texturing" of Brand-X exotic directional speaker cable must be deaf and certainly can't be called an audiophile.

Lamp cord r0x0rs j00r b0x0rZ.

 

[Woody419]

But Monster cables *do* make a difference....in your pocketbook.

Actually cables do make a subtle difference. My main speakers have two runs of wires, a multi-strand braded Kimber Kable and a fat Monster cable knockoff. Without the 12 awg wire the bass of the 12" drivers can be anemic. Most of the computer speakers sold have 3" woofers, the Logitech Z560's do and the bass is really anemic, actually it is non-existant, the bass is rolled off at 100Hz. I doubt you would hear any difference with different cables. But don't forget the placebo effect. Little sugar pills have cured many people, so shiny new speaker cables will make you feel much better also. And isn't that what life is all about, feeling good? Go buy those cables!

 

[merlocka]

Without the 12 awg wire the bass of the 12" drivers can be anemic

Are you saying that the drivers are bi-amped or you just have two pairs of wires connected to the inputs and you can hear the difference if one set is removed.

If latter, can you hear the difference when just the first set is removed? How about when both sets are removed?

Most of the computer speakers sold have 3" woofers, the Logitech Z560's do and the bass is really anemic, actually it is non-existant, the bass is rolled off at 100Hz.

I assume your talking about the satellite drivers of the Z560's. While I agree that the satellites extend to only about 165Hz, the 8" subwoofer of these units (an most other quality theater PC speakers) does extend well below 100Hz. My klipsh 2.1 have decent output at 60Hz, and start getting distorted at 50Hz and below.

Oh yeah, and can you define "anemic" in regards to audio?

 

[fatbaby]

50 ft. of 16 ga speaker wire: $9
50 ft. of 16 ga monster cables: $30

Now unless the 16 ga generic was improperly made, there should be little or no audible difference

 

[Woody419]

Originally posted by: merlocka

Without the 12 awg wire the bass of the 12" drivers can be anemic.

Are you saying that the drivers are bi-amped or you just have two pairs of wires connected to the inputs and you can hear the difference if one set is removed.
I have two pairs of wires connected to the same inputs and yes I can hear a difference between the different sets. I can turn on and off the power to each pair of wires on the amp. The bass is attenuated with just the Kimber Kable, and the highs are slightly less with just the 16 awg. With both the sound is just right.

If latter, can you hear the difference when just the first set is removed? How about when both sets are removed?
Funny guy

I assume your talking about the satellite drivers of the Z560's. While I agree that the satellites extend to only about 165Hz, the 8" subwoofer of these units (an most other quality theater PC speakers) does extend well below 100Hz. My klipsh 2.1 have decent output at 60Hz, and start getting distorted at 50Hz and below.
You are right, I should have been more clear, I am just talking about the satellites. I know the bass module is awesome.

Oh yeah, and can you define "anemic" in regards to audio?
Lacking vigor or energy, weak bass.

 

[merlocka]

I can turn on and off the power to each pair of wires on the amp.

Dude, are you driving your amp into the same load on the seperate outputs. For example, a Denon stereo amplifier I used to have had 2 pairs of speaker outputs, A and B. They were meant for 2 different sets of speakers (in different rooms). If I were to connect the two outputs to the same set of speakers I was able to drop the load seen across the amp, effectively increasing the output of the amplifier.

I was able to do this because my speakers were about 6ohms after the inductive resonance of the woofer, and stayed pretty flat at 8 ohms above that and within +-25 degrees of reactance... so I wasn't driving the amp much lower than it's rated 4 ohms.

If this is similar to your setup, I believe you would hear a difference but it would be because you are driving your amplifier differently, not because you can hear the wire...

 

[Woody419]

Originally posted by: merlocka<br
If this is similar to your setup, I believe you would hear a difference but it would be because you are driving your amplifier differently, not because you can hear the wire...

Speaker setting A (B off), sounds one way.
Speaker setting B (A off), sounds another way.
Speaker setting AB, sounds best.
Possible reason why: speaker wires *do* sound different.
AB setting: is it the wires or amp? Don't know, don't care. I believe it is the wires cause I ain't running no Denon P).

 

[merlocka]

Originally posted by: Woody419

Originally posted by: merlocka<br
If this is similar to your setup, I believe you would hear a difference but it would be because you are driving your amplifier differently, not because you can hear the wire...

Speaker setting A (B off), sounds one way.
Speaker setting B (A off), sounds another way.
Speaker setting AB, sounds best.
Possible reason why: speaker wires *do* sound different.
AB setting: is it the wires or amp? Don't know, don't care. I believe it is the wires cause I ain't running no Denon P).

Other possible reason why... there is no control in that experiment. There is a much higher chance that you are hearing a difference in the amplifier (by switching the outputs) than differences in the wire. JMHO.

 

[Dolemite76]

ok, ok... speaker wire... yes... the higher the guage the better... take into account the material of the wire as well as the length of the wire... check your wire for resistance using a digital multimeter, smaller resistance the better... although not really necessary... generally... copper speakerwire (preferably sheilded) works best... as far as guage... don't go too thick (lower guage)... it really shouldn't make a difference but i use 16 guage copper speaker wire in my home stereo and my car stereo... works fine...