Should I pay my brother rent?

TurdMiner

Junior Member
Mar 11, 2009
17
0
61

Summary
Brother and I inherit house, he borrows against the house with my permission, property value goes down so much as to be about how much he borrowed against the house, I ask my brother to temporarily reduce rent since he is borrowing against my half and he has no intention of paying it down, he refuses and treats me like shit.

It?s a long story so bare with me.
In 1997 my brother and I?s father died. Since my parents were divorced, when my dad?s mom died in 2006, my brother and I inherited her house. We decided it would be best to keep our grandmother?s house rather than sell it because of the low property taxes we would inherit due to California Prop 13.
In 2006 I was preparing to transfer from a junior college to UCSB. My brother and I decided to rent out the house, so I would have about an extra $500 a month to help pay for school.
Here is where the problem comes into play. My brother asked me if he could take a loan out on our house for $183,000, his half of what the house was worth. I told him that was fine, because I was more concerned with finding a place to live in Santa Barbara. I was also under the impression that if I wanted to borrow money against the house I could.
After I graduated, I told my brother I wanted to move into our house. We were charging our last tenet $1,300 a month, so I agreed to pay him $650 a month. We would continue to split the water, utilities, property taxes and home owners insurance. We had no formal/written down agreement.
I had gotten engaged and promised my future wife that we could pay for the wedding by borrowing money from the house. Like my brother had a couple of years ago. Everything was going fine; until my brother tells me he has not been paying our bills and has fallen behind. He asked me to pay some of the bills and I did.
So I asked my brother how much he owed on the house. He had only been making interest payments on the money he borrowed against our house. My brother and I?s house was worth about $200,000 now and he still owed $183,000 on the loan.
So I cannot borrow against the house like he did because there is no equity left. I also found out that regardless of the how much the house was worth, I could not borrow money against the house like he did and get a comparable interest rate. (Second mortgages have worse terms than firsts)
My brother has no interest in paying more each month on the loan to reduce the balance. I cannot sell the house because after the bank got its cut, there would only be about $10,000 left. My brother has basically told me that I have to wait out the market because that is what is best for him.
I feel like my brother has borrowed against my half of the house, leaving me unable to use the house in the same way he has. I feel like this is not a 50/50 partnership, but an older brother telling a younger brother how things will be and that I better like it or I will lose my house and there will be no skin off his nose because he already got his $183,000.
Now to the question.
I asked my brother if he could temporarily reduce rent. This would allow me to save up some money to pay for my wedding. He told me absolutely not, he relies on the rent each month to make his interest only payment on the house. That kind of pissed me off because my brother owns a boat, has been to Mexico twice this year, has been on a cruise this year, goes on weeklong tours with bands and basically has a much higher standard of living than I do, which does make me jealous. I can?t even afford to take my wife on a honey moon. (We got married at the county courthouse because we are poor and both freshly out of college).
I don?t feel like I should be paying rent to my brother who has borrowed money against my half of the house. I feel like a fool each month paying him rent.
Would you pay him rent? What are the possible consequences of not paying him rent? If he stops paying the mortgage, and the house is foreclosed on, what options do I have to protect my half?
 

TurdMiner

Junior Member
Mar 11, 2009
17
0
61
Thanks for the quick response! BTW I have been lurking in P&N for a number of years OCguy
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Originally posted by: TurdMiner
Thanks for the quick response! BTW I have been lurking in P&N for a number of years OCguy

Then no offense, but if you want halfway decent replies, add some cliffs.
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
I absolutely would stop paying him rent in this situation. He definitely has abused this to his advantage and is being very unfair to you. I would suggest moving out and cashing in whatever you can get on this house, thereby completely separating you from him financially.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,231
118
116
Of course this is only your side of the story, but it sure sounds like he's playing you. I'd tell him to pound sand.

KT
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Both your names are on the loan and the house?

Man your brother fucked you in the ass. Real estate will not bounce back to 2006 levels for another generation. When you let your brother take out equity you essentially bet on his ability to pay it back and that RE prices would not fall, and you lost. You are literally SOL.

What you should have done is let him take out the loan for "his half" in return for sole ownership of the house. Even if you had done that you would have "lost."
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
5
0
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: TurdMiner
Thanks for the quick response! BTW I have been lurking in P&N for a number of years OCguy

Then no offense, but if you want halfway decent replies, add some cliffs.

The first couple of sentences are a summary :confused:
 

waffleironhead

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,047
551
136
The current value has nothing to do with anything. Why the hell are you paying him rent. If you effectively owned/own 50% of the house, why is there any rent involved from your standpoint. were you paying yourself rent? I simply do not understand. What am i missing?
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: waffleironhead
The current value has nothing to do with anything. Why the hell are you paying him rent. If you effectively owned/own 50% of the house, why is there any rent involved from your standpoint. were you paying yourself rent? I simply do not understand. What am i missing?

You're not missing anything, his brother was taking advantage of his disability to do math.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: TurdMiner
Thanks for the quick response! BTW I have been lurking in P&N for a number of years OCguy

Then no offense, but if you want halfway decent replies, add some cliffs.

The first couple of sentences are a summary :confused:

I want my damn cliffs. Shouldnt you be outside making sure your country isnt going to collide with Australia?
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
15,903
4
81
I'd just murder the stupid ass and be done with it. Stage it like an accident.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
3
0
Originally posted by: waffleironhead
The current value has nothing to do with anything. Why the hell are you paying him rent. If you effectively owned/own 50% of the house, why is there any rent involved from your standpoint. were you paying yourself rent? I simply do not understand. What am i missing?

Market rate for rent is $1300. He owns 50% of the house, but must pay to rent the other 50% for $650 per month.

That said I doubt you're obligated legally to pay him anything. Your name is on the deed, you can live there. I would consult a real lawyer and find out your options.
 

TurdMiner

Junior Member
Mar 11, 2009
17
0
61
OCguy at the top of the post it says summary.

KeithTalent- yes it is just my side, but I tried to be fair by mentioning that I ok'ed the the loan, naively thinking i could do that same thing. BTW my brother is a Realestate agent.

JS80- both are names are on the house, only his name is on the loan

Thank you all for the quick replies
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: TurdMiner
Thanks for the quick response! BTW I have been lurking in P&N for a number of years OCguy

Then no offense, but if you want halfway decent replies, add some cliffs.

The first couple of sentences are a summary :confused:

I want my damn cliffs. Shouldnt you be outside making sure your country isnt going to collide with Australia.

-inherited house (implicit value $366k)
-his bro cashed out $183k "his share"
-moved in with him pays him $650 rent (no idea why he does it)
-house is worth $200k now
-he wants to stop paying rent he shouldn't be paying but his bro says no way he won't be able to pay the interest only on the still existing $183k which he probably blew playing online poker
-wondering how he got so fucked
 

waffleironhead

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,047
551
136
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: waffleironhead
The current value has nothing to do with anything. Why the hell are you paying him rent. If you effectively owned/own 50% of the house, why is there any rent involved from your standpoint. were you paying yourself rent? I simply do not understand. What am i missing?

Market rate for rent is $1300. He owns 50% of the house, but must pay to rent the other 50% for $650 per month.

That said I doubt you're obligated legally to pay him anything. Your name is on the deed, you can live there. I would consult a real lawyer and find out your options.

Gotcha, he is paying to his brother the amount of rent that he would be missing out on.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
3
0
I don't understand why the loan in his name can affect your equity in the house. Can the bank take your assets because he defaults? That doesn't make sense to me but I'm just making this up.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
5
0
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: TurdMiner
Thanks for the quick response! BTW I have been lurking in P&N for a number of years OCguy

Then no offense, but if you want halfway decent replies, add some cliffs.

The first couple of sentences are a summary :confused:

I want my damn cliffs. Shouldnt you be outside making sure your country isnt going to collide with Australia?

We're building a wall along the west coast to keep them out when the collision occurs. We've also planned a caper to steal Ayer's Rock in the middle of the night.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: TurdMiner
OCguy at the top of the post it says summary.

KeithTalent- yes it is just my side, but I tried to be fair by mentioning that I ok'ed the the loan, naively thinking i could do that same thing. BTW my brother is a Realestate agent.

JS80- both are names are on the house, only his name is on the loan

Thank you all for the quick replies

sorry dude, your brother literally swindled you. He effectively "sold" at the peak and you are left holding the bag.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: waffleironhead
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: waffleironhead
The current value has nothing to do with anything. Why the hell are you paying him rent. If you effectively owned/own 50% of the house, why is there any rent involved from your standpoint. were you paying yourself rent? I simply do not understand. What am i missing?

Market rate for rent is $1300. He owns 50% of the house, but must pay to rent the other 50% for $650 per month.

That said I doubt you're obligated legally to pay him anything. Your name is on the deed, you can live there. I would consult a real lawyer and find out your options.

Gotcha, he is paying to his brother the amount of rent that he would be missing out on.

he should not be paying rent. they both own the house equally, if he's paying his bro $650, why isn't his bro paying him the other half $650? They live together. He is getting swindled.

It's like charging your wife that you own a house with rent!
 

TurdMiner

Junior Member
Mar 11, 2009
17
0
61
I live at the house with my wife. My brother lives a couple blocks aways.
Sorry I was not clear on that.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,231
118
116
Originally posted by: TurdMiner
OCguy at the top of the post it says summary.

KeithTalent- yes it is just my side, but I tried to be fair by mentioning that I ok'ed the the loan, naively thinking i could do that same thing. BTW my brother is a Realestate agent.

JS80- both are names are on the house, only his name is on the loan

Thank you all for the quick replies

WTF! He totally played you. I would definitely tell him to go fuck himself and that you are moving in with no rent paid (obviously check with a lawyer first, but it sure sounds like you are within your rights as a 50% owner).

KT
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: TurdMiner
I live at the house with my wife. My brother lives a couple blocks aways.
Sorry I was not clear on that.

ah ok. then yea you should pay him rent.

but you are fucked on your inheritance (short term). try again in 20 years.
 

Zolty

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2005
3,603
0
0
This is exactly why dual ownership of something big is a bad idea. Oh and I want my free ipod.

When your brother was going to put a loan against it you should have just sold the house and taken the money.
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
17
81
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: TurdMiner
Thanks for the quick response! BTW I have been lurking in P&N for a number of years OCguy

Then no offense, but if you want halfway decent replies, add some cliffs.

The first couple of sentences are a summary :confused:

I want my damn cliffs. Shouldnt you be outside making sure your country isnt going to collide with Australia?

We're building a wall along the west coast to keep them out when the collision occurs. We've also planned a caper to steal Ayer's Rock in the middle of the night.

I'm picturing a billion little sheep legs sticking out of the bottom and one dude riding a horse and cracking a whip while yelling "ya!"