Should I lie about smoking pot?

[Muse]

Originally posted by: gentobu

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: gentobu

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: gentobu
You should lie. They really won't be able to find out as long as you don't have a record. Just be cool, look the interviewer straight in the eye and say "No sir, I have never done any kind of drugs in my life". Everything will be fine dude. Don't worry about it. Just follow my advice and you'll have a TS/SCI in no time.

Just hope you never take a poly, and get asked if you've ever lied to get a job/clearance..

Polys are easy to defeat. I've been polygraphed many times and I've intentionally lied just to see if I could beat it. And I did every single time. I strongly recommend that the OP lie, because it will make him look better than someone who willingly admits to smoking pot. Think about it, who would you hire--someone who you know smokes pot, or someone who has never done drugs in his whole life? Makes sense now doesn't it.

Who would you rather hire? Someone who's honest, or someone who lies?

Maybe things are different in your profession, but integrity is important in mine.

I would rather hire someone who can lie and get away with it. In my profession that counts for a lot.

Unbelievable! Post it on your resume, "Liar for Hire!" That's rich. I had a boss in one job and he told me that in today's world you have to lie to survive. It was a long time ago, so I forget the exact words, but I remember this guy. I'm the honest type, though, and I've never comprehended what he was talking about or been able to make up my mind about it because I can't really get my head into the frame of mind of people who lie regularly.

But you might get a job in the Bush administration. They seem to need a regular stream of liars to keep the ship afloat. There's plenty of places in this society where they want a liar. And you, gentobu, you should get a prize, just for being so damn good at it you can roll roughshod right over a polygraph test. That's rich!

 

[gentobu]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: gentobu

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: gentobu

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: gentobu
You should lie. They really won't be able to find out as long as you don't have a record. Just be cool, look the interviewer straight in the eye and say "No sir, I have never done any kind of drugs in my life". Everything will be fine dude. Don't worry about it. Just follow my advice and you'll have a TS/SCI in no time.

Just hope you never take a poly, and get asked if you've ever lied to get a job/clearance..

Polys are easy to defeat. I've been polygraphed many times and I've intentionally lied just to see if I could beat it. And I did every single time. I strongly recommend that the OP lie, because it will make him look better than someone who willingly admits to smoking pot. Think about it, who would you hire--someone who you know smokes pot, or someone who has never done drugs in his whole life? Makes sense now doesn't it.

Who would you rather hire? Someone who's honest, or someone who lies?

Maybe things are different in your profession, but integrity is important in mine.

I would rather hire someone who can lie and get away with it. In my profession that counts for a lot.

Unbelievable! Post it on your resume, "Liar for Hire!" That's rich. I had a boss in one job and he told me that in today's world you have to lie to survive. It was a long time ago, so I forget the exact words, but I remember this guy. I'm the honest type, though, and I've never comprehended what he was talking about or been able to make up my mind about it because I can't really get my head into the frame of mind of people who lie regularly.

But you might get a job in the Bush administration. They seem to need a regular stream of liars to keep the ship afloat. There's plenty of places in this society where they want a liar.

The Bush admin Fails at lying because they get caught. I want people who can lie and not get caught. Don't you see the difference? It takes a certain caliber of person to do that, and do it well. People like that are one in a million.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: gentobu


The Bush admin Fails at lying because they get caught. I want people who can lie and not get caught. Don't you see the difference? It takes a certain caliber of person to do that, and do it well. People like that are one in a million.

Yeah, you are absolutely right. It takes an absolute genius. There's a movie that comes to mind, I'm trying to remember it... This guy was such a good liar he could spin reality anyway he needed and got away with it.

Dig, you became an AT member 5 days before me.

 

[Locut0s]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: gentobu


The Bush admin Fails at lying because they get caught. I want people who can lie and not get caught. Don't you see the difference? It takes a certain caliber of person to do that, and do it well. People like that are one in a million.

Yeah, you are absolutely right. It takes an absolute genius. There's a movie that comes to mind, I'm trying to remember it... This guy was such a good liar he could spin reality anyway he needed and got away with it.

Dig, you became an AT member 5 days before me.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0134119/

The Talented Mr. Ripley?

 

[gentobu]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: gentobu


The Bush admin Fails at lying because they get caught. I want people who can lie and not get caught. Don't you see the difference? It takes a certain caliber of person to do that, and do it well. People like that are one in a million.

Yeah, you are absolutely right. It takes an absolute genius. There's a movie that comes to mind, I'm trying to remember it... This guy was such a good liar he could spin reality anyway he needed and got away with it.

Dig, you became an AT member 5 days before me.

Cool

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: gentobu


The Bush admin Fails at lying because they get caught. I want people who can lie and not get caught. Don't you see the difference? It takes a certain caliber of person to do that, and do it well. People like that are one in a million.

Yeah, you are absolutely right. It takes an absolute genius. There's a movie that comes to mind, I'm trying to remember it... This guy was such a good liar he could spin reality anyway he needed and got away with it.

Dig, you became an AT member 5 days before me.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0134119/

The Talented Mr. Ripley?

No, I've never seen it. I can't remember what movie it was. Maybe Basic Instinct? Maybe The Bourne Ultimatum?

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: Muse
Unbelievable! Post it on your resume, "Liar for Hire!" That's rich. I had a boss in one job and he told me that in today's world you have to lie to survive. It was a long time ago, so I forget the exact words, but I remember this guy. I'm the honest type, though, and I've never comprehended what he was talking about or been able to make up my mind about it because I can't really get my head into the frame of mind of people who lie regularly.

well i mean come on, EVERYBODY lies, its just a fact of life. I mean who goes around being totally honest? Its not like you have to try and lie\cheat\steal your way to the top, but if you think your boss is an idiot its gonna make you life alot easier if you just keep that to yourself instead of being totally honest and all, same goes for a million other things. I definitely believe that in life you have to lie alot if you want to get anywhere, at the very least you should recognize that alot of the people you are competing with are going to be doing it, so if you choose not to you are deciding to put yourself at a disadvantage.

 

[habib89]

i'm guessing it'd be a bad idea to lie on it. but try and let us know what happens..

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Muse
Unbelievable! Post it on your resume, "Liar for Hire!" That's rich. I had a boss in one job and he told me that in today's world you have to lie to survive. It was a long time ago, so I forget the exact words, but I remember this guy. I'm the honest type, though, and I've never comprehended what he was talking about or been able to make up my mind about it because I can't really get my head into the frame of mind of people who lie regularly.

well i mean come on, EVERYBODY lies, its just a fact of life. I mean who goes around being totally honest? Its not like you have to try and lie\cheat\steal your way to the top, but if you think your boss is an idiot its gonna make you life alot easier if you just keep that to yourself instead of being totally honest and all, same goes for a million other things. I definitely believe that in life you have to lie alot if you want to get anywhere, at the very least you should recognize that alot of the people you are competing with are going to be doing it, so if you choose not to you are deciding to put yourself at a disadvantage.

There's a significant difference between lying and keeping your personal opinions to yourself. It doesn't take a genius to see the difference, either.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Muse
Unbelievable! Post it on your resume, "Liar for Hire!" That's rich. I had a boss in one job and he told me that in today's world you have to lie to survive. It was a long time ago, so I forget the exact words, but I remember this guy. I'm the honest type, though, and I've never comprehended what he was talking about or been able to make up my mind about it because I can't really get my head into the frame of mind of people who lie regularly.

well i mean come on, EVERYBODY lies, its just a fact of life. I mean who goes around being totally honest? Its not like you have to try and lie\cheat\steal your way to the top, but if you think your boss is an idiot its gonna make you life alot easier if you just keep that to yourself instead of being totally honest and all, same goes for a million other things. I definitely believe that in life you have to lie alot if you want to get anywhere, at the very least you should recognize that alot of the people you are competing with are going to be doing it, so if you choose not to you are deciding to put yourself at a disadvantage.

Yeah, like Dylan said, "don't ask me about nothin' about nothin', I might just tell you the truth." When I think about this subject I think of The Idiot by Dostoevsky. That was a character, one in a billion, who was completely virtuous and was incapable of lying. He never contemplated lying, never wrestled with a dilemma concerning it. Well, I read it a very long time ago, but it was quite an experience.

Or that Shakespeare line:
Hamlet: Ay, sir; to be honest, as this world goes, is to be one man picked out of ten thousand.

I do believe, though, that if you are artful enough, you can avoid being deceptive. You can still think thoughts that would disrupt things if known. Another Dylanism, "If my thought dreams could be seen, they'd probably put my head in a guillotine."

 

[sciencewhiz]

If you do lie, there are now thousands of people on these forums who can blackmail you.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz
If you do lie, there are now thousands of people on these forums who can blackmail you.

and thats a HUGE deal with this sort of thing. I know applying for access to the nuclear plant one thing they are very concerned about is whether or not you have anything that would leave you open to being blackmailed. Kind of makes me think back to everything I posted on this forum in my life and yeah, you do sort of start thinking about maybe you said some things online that are public domain now. I know alot of people have that problem with websites like Facebook for example where they post pictures of themselves being party animals and such and its all fun and games until you start applying for jobs and they actually LOOK at places like that to see what type of person you REALLY are. Definitely before you apply for real serious jobs make sure you don't have any stupid shit out in the open like that because some employers do look at it.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: njdevilsfan87
I had to get this topic back up.

I was just denied a clearance because I was in the same situation as the OP (for people wondering how, new policy for summer interns implemented two months ago)

I think you should try to be philosophical about it. Maybe you're better off not working for and with such tightass people.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: Muse
I think you should try to be philosophical about it. Maybe you're better off not working for and with such tightass people.

Well thats one way to look at it, but its silly to say a company is "tight ass" for having security measures, do you really want the people in charge of our nations vital infrastructure to be drug users, or to not have to go threw screening processes? I mean after 9-11 people complain all over the place about how easy it is to get a pilots liscence, or how easy it is to get illegal cargo threw a port, or how our nation is not secure, well these sorts of policies are the way you ensure that the people in charge of stuff that can be dangerous have good intentions and are competent to do the job. Maybe its invasive for them to go snooping around your past, or asking you personal questions, but the purpose for it is to protect the citizens of this country. Alot of people SHOULDN'T have access to military hardware or nuclear plants, or a hundred other things that have the potential to cause considerable harm, these sorts of policies are just trying to weed those people out, maybe some good people get left behind, but nothing is perfect, and better to err on the side of caution imo.

 

[chusteczka]

You cannot change your actions in the past but you have control over your current actions. Behave honorably and life will go much smoother.

 

[toekramp]

Absolutely tell the truth. I have had my clearance for several years and work with many people that have done drugs before. And some more than pot... they look for you to be honest. In fact sometimes they believe you are lying if you say you've never done it.

 

[chusteczka]

Originally posted by: toekramp
Absolutely tell the truth. I have had my clearance for several years and work with many people that have done drugs before. And some more than pot... they look for you to be honest. In fact sometimes they believe you are lying if you say you've never done it.

There was one time I was asked if I had ever experimented with drugs and they did not believe me when I told them that I had not. I think it was during MEPS processing for the US Navy when going into the nuclear power program. The person looked at me funny and I was wondering why this person was looking at me so strangely. Only a moment later did I realize this person probably did not believe me. That was a weird moment and was the only time when I wondered what I was getting myself into.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: gentobu


The Bush admin Fails at lying because they get caught. I want people who can lie and not get caught. Don't you see the difference? It takes a certain caliber of person to do that, and do it well. People like that are one in a million.

Yeah, you are absolutely right. It takes an absolute genius. There's a movie that comes to mind, I'm trying to remember it... This guy was such a good liar he could spin reality anyway he needed and got away with it.

Dig, you became an AT member 5 days before me.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0134119/

The Talented Mr. Ripley?

No, I've never seen it. I can't remember what movie it was. Maybe Basic Instinct? Maybe The Bourne Ultimatum?

Catch Me If You Can?

 

[BrownTown]

Its silly that they would think something was up if you said you had never taken drugs, I mean I never took drugs in college and neither did the majority of the people I knew, certainly a large potion did (each far larger in the Greek life), but I thinks its silly to assume someone has taken drugs and is a liar if they say otherwise.

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Muse
I think you should try to be philosophical about it. Maybe you're better off not working for and with such tightass people.

Well thats one way to look at it, but its silly to say a company is "tight ass" for having security measures, do you really want the people in charge of our nations vital infrastructure to be drug users, or to not have to go threw screening processes? I mean after 9-11 people complain all over the place about how easy it is to get a pilots liscence, or how easy it is to get illegal cargo threw a port, or how our nation is not secure, well these sorts of policies are the way you ensure that the people in charge of stuff that can be dangerous have good intentions and are competent to do the job. Maybe its invasive for them to go snooping around your past, or asking you personal questions, but the purpose for it is to protect the citizens of this country. Alot of people SHOULDN'T have access to military hardware or nuclear plants, or a hundred other things that have the potential to cause considerable harm, these sorts of policies are just trying to weed those people out, maybe some good people get left behind, but nothing is perfect, and better to err on the side of caution imo.

You'll be surprised at how many people there probably are.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: DawsonsDada

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: nkgreen
Should I lie about smoking pot?

Yes, unless you want them to trash your clearance request immediately.

I would say that your response is and EPIC FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The thing about lying is that if you tell one, you have to tell more to keep the original one you started with. <<Tell the TRUTH from the beginning.

I used to be one of the people that processed the clearances and did the investigations for security clearances. If I, and most everyone else I worked with, even THOUGHT you were lying about something on the questionare we did two things IMMEDIATELY.

1. Rejected an interim with cause.
2. Notified the investigators to specifically search for information about the subject matter in question.

99.9% of the time our reservations about the applicant were correct.

If you are honest the first time, it is easier to get a clearance, regardless of what you have done that it is to get one by lying about something that WILL be found out. If you lie to begin with and you are found out you face Federal charges for falsification of information.

So, do the investigators have their sense of humor surgically removed or what?

Considering how many people have died over the years because of espionage, it's not exactly a laughing matter. If the OP even considers lying to get a security clearance, he doesn't deserve one.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Muse
I think you should try to be philosophical about it. Maybe you're better off not working for and with such tightass people.

Well thats one way to look at it, but its silly to say a company is "tight ass" for having security measures, do you really want the people in charge of our nations vital infrastructure to be drug users, or to not have to go threw screening processes? I mean after 9-11 people complain all over the place about how easy it is to get a pilots liscence, or how easy it is to get illegal cargo threw a port, or how our nation is not secure, well these sorts of policies are the way you ensure that the people in charge of stuff that can be dangerous have good intentions and are competent to do the job. Maybe its invasive for them to go snooping around your past, or asking you personal questions, but the purpose for it is to protect the citizens of this country. Alot of people SHOULDN'T have access to military hardware or nuclear plants, or a hundred other things that have the potential to cause considerable harm, these sorts of policies are just trying to weed those people out, maybe some good people get left behind, but nothing is perfect, and better to err on the side of caution imo.

I never suggested that [reasonable] security precautions aren't justifiable. If you read the post carefully he indicates that these people who nixed him are far more cautious than other similar agencies, and inexplicably. Thus my admonition that he may be better off not working for/with them. They appear to be near the top of the curve for paranoid. Read his post again:

Originally posted by: njdevilsfan87
I had to get this topic back up.

I was just denied a clearance because I was in the same situation as the OP (for people wondering how, new policy for summer interns implemented two months ago)

So you know, I wasn't too worried. The general consensus from this topic, and from people I asked in real life - people were honest about it on their clearance forms, passed their drug tests, and still were granted security clearance. So I wasn't worried. Yesterday, I find out the internship I should have been starting in maybe a week or two, was no longer available to me, because I became ineligible due to admitting the use of a controlled substance within the past 12 months.

So I'm still very frustrated, and upset over this. I've been getting headaches just from thinking about it too much.

I worked my ass off in school the past year... getting a single B+ all year, with the rest As. I got my cumulative GPA in mechanical engineering up to a 3.5, putting myself in decent to position to land what I felt would have been a meaningful summer internship. Now I'm sitting here, wondering what am I going to do this summer? I don't think there is absolutely any way I could work full-time at a lame job like work in a retail store (no offense to anyone that does, but I had something a lot better lined up, and I can't help but to feel too much potential being wasted now).

My only option right now may be to work volunteer in university research, and maybe work some lame job part time to pay for commute, and allow for a bit of a pocket change to hold me over until I graduate next year.

I cannot stand the feeling of disappointment and personal failure. It's one of the worst feelings in the world to me.

Two months. Everyone before that, they were probably fine. I mean, what exactly does having experimented with pot have to do with my ability to be a useful person? I have blatant proof in my transcript that it did absolutely nothing. I cannot help but to believe that this policy just is not fair. *I did my part*. I did well in school, made good professor references. Had good work experience. I did my part.

Senior Mechanical Engineer? Doesn't matter...
Got a 4.0 last semester? Doesn't matter...
Worked DoD last summer? Doesn't matter...

This really hurts... Everything I worked for, everything that defined me... did not matter. (But it will 10 months from now...) Because I smoked pot 2 months ago.

I was actually going to shred the notice I received in the mail shortly after I received it... but I'm going to keep around as a personal reminder... not just for the obvious, but to avoid ever feeling like this again.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: gentobu


The Bush admin Fails at lying because they get caught. I want people who can lie and not get caught. Don't you see the difference? It takes a certain caliber of person to do that, and do it well. People like that are one in a million.

Yeah, you are absolutely right. It takes an absolute genius. There's a movie that comes to mind, I'm trying to remember it... This guy was such a good liar he could spin reality anyway he needed and got away with it.

Dig, you became an AT member 5 days before me.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0134119/

The Talented Mr. Ripley?

No, I've never seen it. I can't remember what movie it was. Maybe Basic Instinct? Maybe The Bourne Ultimatum?

Catch Me If You Can?

You know, I thought of that one too and it's a great guess. However, I've never seen it! I racked my brain last night and can't think of the movie. I'm pretty sure it wasn't one of those two I mentioned, either. There's probably a few good candidates.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: rasczak

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Muse
I think you should try to be philosophical about it. Maybe you're better off not working for and with such tightass people.

Well thats one way to look at it, but its silly to say a company is "tight ass" for having security measures, do you really want the people in charge of our nations vital infrastructure to be drug users, or to not have to go threw screening processes? I mean after 9-11 people complain all over the place about how easy it is to get a pilots liscence, or how easy it is to get illegal cargo threw a port, or how our nation is not secure, well these sorts of policies are the way you ensure that the people in charge of stuff that can be dangerous have good intentions and are competent to do the job. Maybe its invasive for them to go snooping around your past, or asking you personal questions, but the purpose for it is to protect the citizens of this country. Alot of people SHOULDN'T have access to military hardware or nuclear plants, or a hundred other things that have the potential to cause considerable harm, these sorts of policies are just trying to weed those people out, maybe some good people get left behind, but nothing is perfect, and better to err on the side of caution imo.

You'll be surprised at how many people there probably are.

And to say they're unfit to serve by virtue of having used drugs is rather draconian and repressive.

Really the OP has little choice at this point and the point's been made several times in this thread. The truth is out there no matter what he declares in the form and he'd be stupid to not be up front about it.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: Muse
Really the OP has little choice at this point and the point's been made several times in this thread. The truth is out there no matter what he declares in the form and he'd be stupid to not be up front about it.

Its not saying that any individual person is bad just because they have used drugs. They are simply playing the odds, and the odds are that people who have used drugs are more likely to be unreliable employees. Also, last I checked you are usually only required to disclose the last 5 years or until you were 18. Its not like you can be screwed for something you did 15 years ago.