Should I join the US Army Special Forces?

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Kelemvor

Lifer
May 23, 2002
16,928
8
81
You should probably ask that question in a few years. You don't join the Special Forces. You have to go through hell and try out for it and hope you make it. You can join the army and see if you really want to join the SF when you get far enough to even attempt it.
 

KoolAidKid

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2002
1,932
0
76
Originally posted by: glenn1

Second of all, do you have an ego strong enough to not settle for less than best in anything, yet humble enough to acknowledge you'll be in a group of incredibly talented people and will never again be the biggest fish in the pond in every, or sometimes any respect? If you're one of those guys who has never experienced not being the top dog in everything you've ever done, then Selection is going to be hard and life on the teams even harder.

Next, what's your personality style? You'll be working with a group of people on the extreme outlier end of the scale, people whose motivation, endurance, and stubborness is absolutely off the charts. We're talking A-personality to the Nth degree, a team of 12 guys who would rather cut off their nuts then be the last man in anything. And as the team leader they'll expect you to exceed them in that quality, heck even encourage them by example. If this doesn't sound like you, then don't post for selection.

Lastly, how doctrinaire are you? Do you like rules, defined roles, and keeping things simple? If so then SF is DEFINTELY not for you. If there's one thing that SF guys do better and take more seriously than mission-related stuff, it's finding creative ways to break regulations, short-cut procedures, half-ass any order they regard as being pointless or poorly decided, disregard supervisory control measures, and generally find a way to do everything their way just to drive you as the officer crazy.

Cliffs: It's just like in the movie Top Gun.
 

J Heartless Slick

Golden Member
Nov 11, 1999
1,330
0
0
Originally posted by: platinumike
aka Green Beret. Im in college right now, and im thinking of graduating with my BS degree, and join in the Army as an officer, and then attempt for SF.

No, go to medical school instead.

 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
0
0
When I was 20 (i'm 28 now) and was in insane shape and thought about joining the army or navy for SF.

I have a friend of the family who knew an ex-SEAL...the friend of the family told me there was no way in hell that I would make it just from what he had heard from the ex-SEAL and what he knew of the seal's personality, etc.

I eventually met this ex-SEAL a year to two later and he told me some sh1t that turned my blood cold...and I realized I almost certainly would not have made it if for no other reason than my personality.

I would've collapsed pyschologically, I'm sure.
 

CaptainGoodnight

Golden Member
Oct 13, 2000
1,427
30
91
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: tec699
If you wanna fight the Bushie war then yes!

Kerry was going to greatly increase the size of the Special Forces, btw. ;)

Which might not have been possible btw.

Edit:

Sen Kerry repeated claims that he will double Special Forces. I assume he means all of the DoD Special Operations Forces (SOF), but I only know about Army SF. The Army SF Groups, 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th, all have a hard enough time keeping the operational detachments (called "A" Teams) at any deployable strength. Most teams operate with 7-10 men. The table of organization and equipment (TO&E) requires a 12 man team. Fat chance. There just isn't a big enough pool of men in this country to make SF any bigger without lowering the standards. Lower the standards and you will not have the right men to execute the missions. Raising the pay and instituting more specialty pay will help families at home and raise the morale of the men, but will not create a greater pool of men to apply and to make it through SF training. Money is just not a good enough motivator for living the SF life. You have to want to do it. Conclusion - Sen Kerry is presenting a hollow promise,..or worst, he may keep his word and lower the standards of SF and SOF. Again - a calculated political move for a campagin devoid of solid promises.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
Ok, well first of al I've never seen so many people speak of so much nonsense on something that they have no clue about.

That being said, SF is not exactly easy to make, especially as an officer. You have to be a 1LT before even having the option of going to selection. Its actually much easier as enlisted. You can be anywhere from e3 to e7 to go to selection.

Of course, if you do ever pass selection, theres about 2 years of intense training ahead of you before ever being on a team. These guys train WAY more then regular army units. Actually, pretty much everything in SF is 10 times better then regular army.

Better food, better living, more respect, better planning, etc, etc, etc.

From what I've met of SF, they all absolutely love doing what they do, which is not limited to training whatsoever. They do much much MUCH more then that.

Me personally, I dont think I'd ever try. I'm just trying to switch over to infantry.

Oh yeah.. one last thing. Dont ever even mention that you thought about going SF or Navy Seals or something. Thats just silly.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
62,741
18,912
136
Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Which might not have been possible btw.

Edit:

Sen Kerry repeated claims that he will double Special Forces. I assume he means all of the DoD Special Operations Forces (SOF), but I only know about Army SF. The Army SF Groups, 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th, all have a hard enough time keeping the operational detachments (called "A" Teams) at any deployable strength. Most teams operate with 7-10 men. The table of organization and equipment (TO&E) requires a 12 man team. Fat chance. There just isn't a big enough pool of men in this country to make SF any bigger without lowering the standards. Lower the standards and you will not have the right men to execute the missions. Raising the pay and instituting more specialty pay will help families at home and raise the morale of the men, but will not create a greater pool of men to apply and to make it through SF training. Money is just not a good enough motivator for living the SF life. You have to want to do it. Conclusion - Sen Kerry is presenting a hollow promise,..or worst, he may keep his word and lower the standards of SF and SOF. Again - a calculated political move for a campagin devoid of solid promises.

:roll:
Bush won, get over it.
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
Originally posted by: glenn1
You might want to ask someone who's actually done it (and preferrably recently) before you make a decision such as that. While the Q-Course for 18A candidates is still somewhat more of a gentleman's experience than the enlisted version it's still no joke. And presuming you make it through you'll be handed an ODA with 12 very experienced soldiers who will challenge you unbelievably more than what most other officers experience during their entire career.

Ultimately though, only you can know if it's the right choice for you. Here's some questions to start off with.

First of all, are you unbelievably driven to do this or do you just think it'd be "cool?" If this isn't what occupies your thoughts and mind, what you'd give anything for and would give anything up for, then it's not for you.

Second of all, do you have an ego strong enough to not settle for less than best in anything, yet humble enough to acknowledge you'll be in a group of incredibly talented people and will never again be the biggest fish in the pond in every, or sometimes any respect? If you're one of those guys who has never experienced not being the top dog in everything you've ever done, then Selection is going to be hard and life on the teams even harder.

Next, what's your personality style? You'll be working with a group of people on the extreme outlier end of the scale, people whose motivation, endurance, and stubborness is absolutely off the charts. We're talking A-personality to the Nth degree, a team of 12 guys who would rather cut off their nuts then be the last man in anything. And as the team leader they'll expect you to exceed them in that quality, heck even encourage them by example. If this doesn't sound like you, then don't post for selection.

Lastly, how doctrinaire are you? Do you like rules, defined roles, and keeping things simple? If so then SF is DEFINTELY not for you. If there's one thing that SF guys do better and take more seriously than mission-related stuff, it's finding creative ways to break regulations, short-cut procedures, half-ass any order they regard as being pointless or poorly decided, disregard supervisory control measures, and generally find a way to do everything their way just to drive you as the officer crazy. You'll be in charge of a team who when you give them orders, not only expects you to accomodate them in whatever method they choose to fulfill them, but will demand you assist them to do so. If you can deal with that, great.

Just so you know what I'm talking about with the last point, here's an old joke talking about the Special Forces misfit mindset vs. the Rangers (as doctrinaire as it comes), it's old but is pretty accurate:

Rangers vs Special Forces

The Chief of Staff of the Army asked his Sergeant Major, who was both Ranger and Special Forces qualified, which organization he would recommend to form a new anti-terrorist unit. The Sergeant Major responded to the General's question with this parable: If there were a hijacked Boeing 747 being held by terrorists along with its passengers and crew and an anti-terrorist unit formed either by the Rangers or the Special Forces was given a Rescue/Recovery Mission; what would you expect to happen?

Ranger Option
Forces/Equipment Committed: If the Rangers went in, they would send a Ranger company of 120 men with standard army issue equipment.

Mission Preparation: The Ranger Company First Sergeant would conduct a Hair Cut and Boots Inspection.

Infiltration Technique: They would insist on double timing, in company formation, wearing their combat equipment, and singing Jody cadence all the way to the site of the hijacked aircraft.

Actions in the Objective Area: Once they arrived, the Ranger company would establish their ORP, put out security elements, conduct a leaders recon, reapply their face cammo, and conduct final preparations for Actions on the OBJ.

Results of Operation: The Rescue/Recovery Operation would be completed within one hour; all of the terrorists and most of the passengers would have been killed, the Rangers would have sustained light casualties and the 747 would be worthless to anyone except a scrap dealer.

Special Forces Option
Forces/Equipment Committed: If Special Forces went in, they would send only a 12 man team (all SF units are divisible by 12 for some arcane historical reason) however, due to the exotic nature of their equipment the SF Team would cost the same amount to deploy as the Ranger Company.

Mission Preparation: The SF Team Sergeant would request relaxed grooming standards for the team.

Infiltration Technique: The team would insist on separate travel orders with Max Per Diem, and each would get to the site of the hijacking by his own means. At least one third of the team would insist on jumping in.

Actions in the Objective Area: Once they arrived , the SF Team would cache their military uniforms, establish a Team Room, use their illegal Team Fund to stock the unauthorized Team Room Bar, check out the situation by talking to the locals, and have a Team Meeting to discuss the merits of the terrorists' cause.

Results of Operation: The Rescue/Recovery Operation would take two weeks to complete and by that time all of the terrorists would have been killed, (and would have left signed confessions); the passengers would be ruined psychologically for the remainder of their lives; and all of the women passengers would be pregnant. The 747 would be essentially unharmed, the team would have taken no casualties but would have used up, lost, or stolen all the "high speed" equipment issued to them.

:thumbsup: Great Post!
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
3
76
I like how you're very nonchalant about this as if SF is something you just sign up for.
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
Originally posted by: Mo0o
I like how you're very nonchalant about this as if SF is something you just sign up for.

Don't worry, he would've never made the Navy SEALs, and he'll never make SF. Anyone who would just casually "think" about joining either of the two doesn't have what it takes psychologically even if they were selected.