Should I go Solar or not?

[Linux23]

Anyone get solar panels installed on their roof? The past two years I was thinking about doing it (i'm unsure of the process to get this going). Not those sleazy lease programs. Just outright hiring a company to do it and paying cash.

I can't stand that my elec usage is 1000 kwh or more per month and i'm paying PSE&G in NJ between $150 - $200 a month in elec alone. Add the Gas charge and you can see where i'm going with this.

I still don't understand how i'm using 1000 kwh in elec usage when no AC is running and only lights, one PC and a furnace is running (winter time so I need no AC). I can't imagine what happens this summer when I run my 3-ton/13 SEER central AC.

Any suggestions or advice?

 

[kt]

Have you looked into your appliances usage? Older fridge? Washer/dryer? Or someone is stealing your electricity?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Solar-freaking roadways all the way bby!


No but srsly, if it's not your AC then it's something else. Any random shit you keep plugged in all the time? You would be better off unplugging things unless they are actively being used.

 

[LTC8K6]

I would check to make sure there isn't a problem, first.

 

[Feneant2]

Considering you see Winter, might not be worth it unless you have all kinds of incentives.

I checked here in Canada and it was over 30k to get started where it would take about 25 years to recoup the cost- excluding upkeep, maintenance and repairs. So basically, all I would be doing is paying 30k in advance to lower my bill by maybe 100$ a month.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Considering you see Winter, might not be worth it unless you have all kinds of incentives.

I checked here in Canada and it was over 30k to get started where it would take about 25 years to recoup the cost- excluding upkeep, maintenance and repairs. So basically, all I would be doing is paying 30k in advance to lower my bill by maybe 100$ a month.

Indeed. We are at the bell curve where solar panels are going to plummet shortly. It's sheer stupidity to buy one at this point, especially because IIRC the tax breaks/benefits just ended for buying them as well.

 

[KIAman]

I still don't understand how i'm using 1000 kwh in elec usage when no AC is running and only lights, one PC and a furnace is running (winter time so I need no AC).

Lot's of stuff. Water heater, fridge, freezer, washer, dryer, cooking appliances, entertainment electronics. Especially the water heater, fridge and freezer, those could run 24/7 if they are defective and could easily run 1000 khh+ a month all by themselves.

Unless you literally meant that your house only has lights, a PC and a furnace. Then you have no need for solar because you live in a shoebox.

 

[Linux23]

Have you looked into your appliances usage? Older fridge? Washer/dryer? Or someone is stealing your electricity?

Good question. My fridge is new so it's Energy Star rated. All TV's are LED's are are energy star as well. PC is turned off every day. Have a few fans that run for 3-6 hours a day. All lights in my house is LED or CFL. No electric heaters that are running. And if they are, it's like less than 24 hours a month, if that.

My washer/dryer combo was a demo on Home Depot's floor, but once I checked, my Samsung washer is Energy Star rated. I did research and found out a lot of front load washers were not ES rated, but mine was, which is cool because it's a great washer.

How can I tell if someone is stealing my electricity. When I bought this house, I had my dad and his partner redo all of the electricity, so i'm at a loss.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I just had some installed, does your state offer some kind of buy back program like SRec's?
The energy savings alone isn't worth it. However when the state requires energy companies to buy back solar energy it changed the calculation quite a bit. Our system cost a bit more than 14k but it will eliminate our electric bill plus generate $2500-$3000 per year in payments.
I'd recommend calling a solar company & having someone come out to your house to price it. Solar City pushes the lease option heavily but you can buy their panels if you want.

 

[KB]

Good question. My fridge is new so it's Energy Star rated. All TV's are LED's are are energy star as well. PC is turned off every day. Have a few fans that run for 3-6 hours a day. All lights in my house is LED or CFL. No electric heaters that are running. And if they are, it's like less than 24 hours a month, if that.

My washer/dryer combo was a demo on Home Depot's floor, but once I checked, my Samsung washer is Energy Star rated. I did research and found out a lot of front load washers were not ES rated, but mine was, which is cool because it's a great washer.

How can I tell if someone is stealing my electricity. When I bought this house, I had my dad and his partner redo all of the electricity, so i'm at a loss.

You can start by turning everything off and checking to see if your electric meter is still seeing electricity usage.

You might want to try this gadget to see whats using so much. http://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU

 

[Linux23]

I just had some installed, does your state offer some kind of buy back program like SRec's?
The energy savings alone isn't worth it. However when the state requires energy companies to buy back solar energy it changed the calculation quite a bit. Our system cost a bit more than 14k but it will eliminate our electric bill plus generate $2500-$3000 per year in payments.
I'd recommend calling a solar company & having someone come out to your house to price it. Solar City pushes the lease option heavily but you can buy their panels if you want.

I believe they do in NJ. Will need to double check. They have panels installed on most utility poles in Jersey so something is going on with financing these panels all over JC.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Indeed. We are at the bell curve where solar panels are going to plummet shortly. It's sheer stupidity to buy one at this point, especially because IIRC the tax breaks/benefits just ended for buying them as well.

Tax credits were extended for another year or two

 

[kt]

Good question. My fridge is new so it's Energy Star rated. All TV's are LED's are are energy star as well. PC is turned off every day. Have a few fans that run for 3-6 hours a day. All lights in my house is LED or CFL. No electric heaters that are running. And if they are, it's like less than 24 hours a month, if that.

My washer/dryer combo was a demo on Home Depot's floor, but once I checked, my Samsung washer is Energy Star rated. I did research and found out a lot of front load washers were not ES rated, but mine was, which is cool because it's a great washer.

How can I tell if someone is stealing my electricity. When I bought this house, I had my dad and his partner redo all of the electricity, so i'm at a loss.

Turn off all power using the main disconnect box before the breaker box. If your electrical meter still moves after disconnecting then someone has tapped into your power line.

Obviously, before attempting the above you should unplug all expensive appliances just in case even if they are plugged into a power surge protector.

 

[KB]

I just had some installed, does your state offer some kind of buy back program like SRec's?
The energy savings alone isn't worth it. However when the state requires energy companies to buy back solar energy it changed the calculation quite a bit. Our system cost a bit more than 14k but it will eliminate our electric bill plus generate $2500-$3000 per year in payments.
I'd recommend calling a solar company & having someone come out to your house to price it. Solar City pushes the lease option heavily but you can buy their panels if you want.

As a bit of warning, these buyback prices can be changed with very little warning, changing the cost/benefit dramatically.

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_28580259/pg-e-proposes-wide-ranging-changes-solar-electricity

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I believe they do in NJ. Will need to double check. They have panels installed on most utility poles in Jersey so something is going on with financing these panels all over JC.

Your roof needs to be relatively new too but the panels will greatly extend the roof life, I imagine 20 years from now we'll need at least a partial roof replacement or maybe we won't, our panels have a 25 year life expectancy.

 

[Linux23]

You can start by turning everything off and checking to see if your electric meter is still seeing electricity usage.

You might want to try this gadget to see whats using so much. http://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU

I have a few of those meters. I checked a bunch of stuff but cannot see something that would add up to 1000 kwh in one month. Some draw maybe 15-30 watts (off) so multiply that by 3-4 sockets, maybe it do add up. I'm stupid in regards to electricity but i'm trying to do my homework now.

 

[Linux23]

Turn off all power using the main disconnect box before the breaker box. If your electrical meter still moves after disconnecting then someone has tapped into your power line.

Obviously, before attempting the above you should unplug all expensive appliances just in case even if they are plugged into a power surge protector.

unfortunately when i was at work they snuck in that new meter and installed it so it's really not that apparent with these new BS meters that are digital.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

As a bit of warning, these buyback prices can be changed with very little warning, changing the cost/benefit dramatically.

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_28580259/pg-e-proposes-wide-ranging-changes-solar-electricity

They've been pretty stable but yes last years low was around $165(?) and the high was $340(?) as long as the next 5 years we average around 2k in credits plus trim 1k off our electric we're set. That's being pretty conservative.
I do agree when we first priced it 5 years ago a small system was 25k those numbers were too risky to achieve a 5 year payoff.

 

[Linux23]

Your roof needs to be relatively new too but the panels will greatly extend the roof life, I imagine 20 years from now we'll need at least a partial roof replacement or maybe we won't, our panels have a 25 year life expectancy.

i had a new roof installed in 2011 when i moved in here.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

i had a new roof installed in 2011 when i moved in here.

Same with us! Perfect time for a new roof tons of roofers were looking for jobs cheap.
We used SolarFlair so far we've been pretty satisfied.
I agree the new meters are confusing to read.

***for the record my systems cost is post tax rebate not pre tax rebate***

 

[Net]

Anyone get solar panels installed on their roof? The past two years I was thinking about doing it (i'm unsure of the process to get this going). Not those sleazy lease programs. Just outright hiring a company to do it and paying cash.

I can't stand that my elec usage is 1000 kwh or more per month and i'm paying PSE&G in NJ between $150 - $200 a month in elec alone. Add the Gas charge and you can see where i'm going with this.

I still don't understand how i'm using 1000 kwh in elec usage when no AC is running and only lights, one PC and a furnace is running (winter time so I need no AC). I can't imagine what happens this summer when I run my 3-ton/13 SEER central AC.

Any suggestions or advice?

I'm not in the market but I was curious.

you can check out your address here: https://www.google.com/get/sunroof#p=0

at my address it was $15k up front, 11 years till payback, 20 years savings was $11k

I'm assuming the $11k savings means $15k paid back plus $11k in savings, resulting in the original $15k growing to $26k in 20 years.

Then comparing that to putting $15k in S&P 500 and assuming 8% average return for 11 years was $34,974.58, and 20 years was $69,914.36.

If assuming an average return rate of 3% instead, 11 years was $20,763.51, and 20 years was $27,091.67
If assuming an average return rate of 1% instead, 11 years was $16,735.03, and 20 years was $18,302.85
http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm

It seems like the return rate for solar in this case comes out to around 3% a year average after 20 years, not included tax deductions and not including maintenance and repair costs. US inflation http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/Long_Term_Inflation.asp is around 3%.

I'd say if your goal is strictly financial gain then its probably not worth it. But you have to run all the numbers for your situation to see. There are other gains then just financial though like lowering your environmental footprint.

EDIT: The website I used https://www.google.com/get/sunroof/about/ already takes into account tax incentives. So the savings I put here for my address do include tax incentives. It doesn't look like it takes into account maintenance or repairs costs.

 

[Bubblehappy]

Considering you see Winter, might not be worth it unless you have all kinds of incentives.

I checked here in Canada and it was over 30k to get started where it would take about 25 years to recoup the cost- excluding upkeep, maintenance and repairs. So basically, all I would be doing is paying 30k in advance to lower my bill by maybe 100$ a month.

NJ used to be #1 in the country for solar production, and still stand at #4.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I've been toying with the idea for a while. Found a site that sells everything including the racking systems for the roof. It's actually not THAT expensive, it's really getting cheaper.

http://www.solartrader.ca/

The batteries are probably as expensive, if more, than the panels themselves, but you can always start with cheaper batteries like Canadian Tire ones. That's probably what I'd do, then upgrade later. Here I would need a backup generator though, we don't get enough sun in winter.

Our hydro company is raping us through the ass and going in dry. Prices go up by about 10% each year and they always have the most hilarious excuse. This year their excuse is that we did not use enough electricity. The year before was that we used too much. Meanwhile they overproduce power and GIVE it to the states, or even PAY the states to take it. Someone posted their bill on FB the other day, it's a cottage, they did not use ANY power, yet it was over $100 because of delivery and all the other BS fees. I don't get why they would not go solar for a cottage though, in summer solar will work really well given the days are like 18 hours long. It's in winter where it does not work well here.

I need to start saving up. It will seem like it will take too long to pay off, but I'd have to sit down and really figure out and consider the fact that the hydro rates keep going up. There is probably a break even point where it makes sense to go solar + generator or something.

Downside is I've been told it's illegal to go offgrid in the city, something about the house not being considered habitable, and thus the insurance won't insure it, or something like that. But have not informed myself on my city to see what the rules are.

I'm even toying with wood stove + high pressure steam turbine, but no idea where to buy those in the <10kw range. I'm just finding huge industrial ones the size of the house. I only want to produce power for myself, not the whole city. lol. Wish I had a bigger property, I don't think I'd realistically be able to do steam where I live now, it's more of a fun idea.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I'm not in the market but I was curious.

you can check out your address here: https://www.google.com/get/sunroof#p=0

at my address it was $15k up front, 11 years till payback, 20 years savings was $11k

I'm assuming the $11k savings means $15k paid back plus $11k in savings, resulting in the original $15k growing to $26k in 20 years.

Then comparing that to putting $15k in S&P 500 and assuming 8% average return for 11 years was $34,974.58, and 20 years was $69,914.36.

If assuming an average return rate of 3% instead, 11 years was $27,091.67, and 20 years was $27,091.67
If assuming an average return rate of 1% instead, 11 years was $16,735.03, and 20 years was $18,302.85

It seems like the return rate for solar in this case comes out to around 3% a year average after 20 years, not included tax deductions and not including maintenance and repair costs. US inflation http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/Long_Term_Inflation.asp is around 3%.

I'd say if your goal is strictly financial gain then its probably not worth it. But you have to run all the numbers for your situation to see. There are other gains then just financial though like lowering your environmental footprint.

Its more about the solar exchange market. There are two parts 1st your electric bill 2nd is the solar equipment credits from the power companies. The equipment credits are what generate income, the are independent from the bill credit but I agree if you have the cash its smarter to invest if you have a low interest loan its not too tough to beat the interest rate.

 

[Darwin333]

Well your state incentives kind of suck BUT yall do have an SREC program. A typical 5kw solar electric system will generate 6 SRECs a year which currently sell for $280/ea in New Jersey's market so that should be considered in your financial calculations. They are traded kind of like stock so the price can and will vary so keep that in mind, they could be worth far more or far less in a few years.

I am an expert in the field but unfortunately every state has different financial incentives, loan programs, etc... So it's very tough for me to give you a financial breakdown without doing a ton of homework but I can definitely help you with any design, power production and look over any quote that you get.

You will get a 30% federal credit for the entire cost of the installation but whoever quotes you will explain all of that to you. It's not difficult to install at all but a lot of states require licensed installers to get any benefits.

Quick question, do you have a large southward facing roof surface that isn't shaded by trees, power lines, neighboring house, etc..?