Should I go nForce or stick with my KT266a?

[DashK]

Via sucks, nVidia is going to crush them where they stand, just like they did to 3DFX, because they do and will make a better product, as for drivers, well it's nVidia, what more do I have to say? The nForce already beats the KT266A in speed and stability, and it's nVidia's first chipset, how many chipsets have Via already made? It's totally shamefull they get so many problems and need all those patches and updates, can't they get it together by now?

And the "A" revisions are really BS, way to screw the consumer, if they were smart, they would wait till they got to the "A" level with a new chipset in the first place, so they didn't have to release it twice, all that shows is that they were to lazy to get the first version up to spec, so they have to release a revision a few monthes later to fix all the bugs.

nForce is the way to go IMO, I'm just waiting on the 415-D boards, the new SiS 746 also looks really nice, screw KT333, it's the 266A with better memory support, so as always, you'll have to buy the "A" version to get the real goods.

People who try to defend Via, that's just silly. Your trying to save a sinking ship with a paper cup, I'm all for getting behind a company and supporting them, but your really fooling yourselves if you think Via is so great and they make a good product, I mean what are you smoking? Via needs to get their act together fast, if they don't wanna be extinct in 2 or 3 years by SiS and nVidia's better chipsets.

 

[NFS4]

<< Via sucks, nVidia is going to crush them where they stand, just like they did to 3DFX, because they do and will make a better product, as for drivers, well it's nVidia, what more do I have to say? The nForce already beats the KT266A in speed and stability, and it's nVidia's first chipset, how many chipsets have Via already made? It's totally shamefull they get so many problems and need all those patches and updates, can't they get it together by now?

And the "A" revisions are really BS, way to screw the consumer, if they were smart, they would wait till they got to the "A" level with a new chipset in the first place, so they didn't have to release it twice, all that shows is that they were to lazy to get the first version up to spec, so they have to release a revision a few monthes later to fix all the bugs.

nForce is the way to go IMO, I'm just waiting on the 415-D boards, the new SiS 746 also looks really nice, screw KT333, it's the 266A with better memory support, so as always, you'll have to buy the "A" version to get the real goods.

People who try to defend Via, that's just silly. Your trying to save a sinking ship with a paper cup, I'm all for getting behind a company and supporting them, but your really fooling yourselves if you think Via is so great and they make a good product, I mean what are you smoking? Via needs to get their act together fast, if they don't wanna be extinct in 2 or 3 years by SiS and nVidia's better chipsets. >>


Do you even have ANY idea what you are talking about? VIA has 80% of the Athlon chipset market and won't just "go away." Do some research before you come in here making broad, sweeping claims and start bashing chipset makers. If you knew what you were talking about, maybe I would listen, but you are just spouting off BS.


<< Via sucks, nVidia is going to crush them where they stand, just like they did to 3DFX, because they do and will make a better product, as for drivers, well it's nVidia, what more do I have to say? >>


It took years for NVIDIA to crush 3dfx. This is NVIDIA's first motherboard chipset, it's going to take a while.


<< The nForce already beats the KT266A in speed and stability, and it's nVidia's first chipset, how many chipsets have Via already made? It's totally shamefull they get so many problems and need all those patches and updates, can't they get it together by now? >>


The nForce is not w/o it's problems (3 DIMMs takes it down to PC1600 speeds). And it requires driver updates just like the KT266A. Remember, VIA has been making chipsets for a LONG time for Pentium/Pentium II/Pentium III/Pentium 4/K6/K62/Athlon/Duron. And the nForce is not TOTALLY faster than the KT266A. They both trade top spots in benches with KT266A coming out on top in some benches and the nForce coming out on top in others. It's a total toss up between the two.


<< And the "A" revisions are really BS, way to screw the consumer, if they were smart, they would wait till they got to the "A" level with a new chipset in the first place, so they didn't have to release it twice, all that shows is that they were to lazy to get the first version up to spec, so they have to release a revision a few monthes later to fix all the bugs. >>


Are you finished yet? More bashing. A specs normally add more features or increase performance. Nothing wrong with that. The KT333 adds DDR333 support. KT333A adds AGP8x, USB 2.0, Firewire, and ATA133. The reason why KT333A wouldn't be released right away is b/c the spec for AGP8x has NOT been finalized yet. They have to wait before releasing it.


<< nForce is the way to go IMO, I'm just waiting on the 415-D boards, the new SiS 746 also looks really nice, screw KT333, it's the 266A with better memory support, so as always, you'll have to buy the "A" version to get the real goods. >>


I'll agree that KT333 isn't much of an improvement given that DDR333 memory is rather high (compared to what memory cost a few months ago). Even so, KT333 boards would still be faster than nForce boards due to DDR333 support and cheaper as well.


<< People who try to defend Via, that's just silly. Your trying to save a sinking ship with a paper cup, I'm all for getting behind a company and supporting them, but your really fooling yourselves if you think Via is so great and they make a good product, I mean what are you smoking? Via needs to get their act together fast, if they don't wanna be extinct in 2 or 3 years by SiS and nVidia's better chipsets. >>


NVIDIA and SiS don't even compare in size to VIA in the chipset market. Get a grip.




Stop spreading BS, no one is listening.

 

[DashK]

NFS4,

Keep filling that paper cup up, i'm sure you'll save them from sinking some day.

I'm not spreading BS, just stating what I think, and if you think i'm the only one who doesn't like Via, your dreaming.

If you like Via fine, I could care less, I'm not bashing your company, I just don't like them. If you can praise the hell out of them/defend them, then I can say what I think. Since I don't want some person looking for a new motherboard that doesn't know anything about them, to see you telling them to get a Via board, when I know Via sucks (sorry, it's what I think).

BTW, funny quote about the 80% market share, wasn't that about where 3DFX was when nVidia came in and slowley but surley crushed them? Calm down bud, the last thing I would wanna do is start a war over what motherboard is better, let alone waste my time defending/promoting a board, am I getting paid by these companies to do that? No, I could care less what board sucks and whats good, the man was asking a question about what to get, and I told him my story, case closed.

 

[Imyourzero]

<< Um, sounds like you don't like troubleshooting and workarounds, so wtf would you even consider building a system around a completely new mobo and chipset? The problems you mentioned are simple workarounds that the majority of users wouldn't even notice in their day-to-day usage. The SBLive issue? That was never a problem with KT133A or KT266A.....it died with KT133. Maybe its your card? I've used an SBLive! on boards with both chipsets and never had a problem. As for the Beta Busmaster drivers, they are included on my install CD and listed under "IDE Busmaster for Preformance"....I didn't have to do anything except click on the install button. It increased my Sisoft IDE performance under 98SE, ME and Win2K, but in reality, did I see any real improvement? Not really considering the apps and games I run use burst activity.

What you consider "necessary" in maximizing your system's performance is completely optional to 95% of computer users out there....thats why you "tweak" or overclock your system. There's a term we use in my profession....its the concept of diminishing returns...you can spend 20% of your time accomplishing 80% of the task and 80% trying to perform the other 20%, but sometimes its just better to cut your losses than to keep spinning your wheels. The majority of computer users do exactly that and oftentimes never notice what they're missing, however, the enthusiast will go for the gusto and try and maximize their performance. If you want something that runs out-of-the-box at an acceptable level of performance that you don't have to mess with, buy a console or a Dell. If you think a PC is something that should run out-of-the-box and never have to be upgraded or patched you should buy an Apple. I can't help but chuckle when I see people in the CS line at BB argue 'til their blue in the face about how they're pissed off b/c they had to download a patch to get something to work. People are silly

Chiz >>



As for your talk on the differences between what's necessary and what's increased performance, I would have to agree. I mean, if you set up a KT266a system and install Win2k, sure it'll work for the average user, and that's what matters. An enthusiast will take the time and effort to seek out extra performance. But I feel that the level of performance you get with the beta busmaster drivers should be standard in the 4-in-1's (which it wasn't for me) so that everyone can attain good IDE performance.

As to: "If you want something that runs out-of-the-box at an acceptable level of performance that you don't have to mess with, buy a console or a Dell." Well I don't think that's true. I've put together several systems from scratch and the non-VIA systems I've put together DO run immediately at an acceptable level of performance. With my P3+Asus CUSL2 combo I built before I tried the Athlon, it ran fast and stable from day 1 and I never had to install anything extra. A far cry from all the files I've downloaded for my VIA systems to get them patched up. But, as I said, a normal user would probably be just as well installing only the 4-in-1's, or in the case of WinXP, nothing.

 

[subhuman]

The only issue I have with VIA is the PCI bus throughput. It should have decent PCI performance out of the box, period - or at least decent PCI when you install the 4-in-1's. Right now the only fix that I know of for this LONG STANDING issue (had it even on my KX133 years ago, and its still there on KT266A), is not even made by VIA?

Once that's fixed and the 4-in-1's are more stable, VIA will be much better!

 

[Hendrik]

NFS4:

I've been wondering for some time what turned you from VIA hater to VIA defender. I remember back when the nForce chipset was announced, half a year ago or so, you expressed impatience and delight, looking forward to the time you wouldn't have to rely on VIA's pieces of sh** any more.

An then what happened, now that nForce based motherboards have started to become available, and VIA based boards continue to have at least some of the problems that we have all come to be familiar with (most importantly IDE performance issues, and general stability issues)?

You keep dwelling on the fact that if you put three memory sticks into an nForce motherboard, it automatically runs the memory at 200 MHz. Is that the reason why you have turned cold toward the chipset? You might find it interesting to note that apparently, MSI is just about to release a new BIOS version (2.2), which gives you the option of disabling that feature, so that you can run three sticks at 266 MHz.

It's true, of course, that a well entrenched company like VIA isn't going to go away quickly, but I really wouldn't be surprised of nVidia were going to take marketshare from them fairly quickly within the next few years. The Athlon is such a compellingly good CPU, it cries out for a rock-solid, high-performance, well-supported chipset to go with it, if AMD is to rival the Pentium 4/Intel chipset combination. VIA, despite having had so much time, have still not succeeded in doing so. nVidia, with their first attempt, are already closer than VIA, not because of performance, but because of stability. I'd love to see Anandtech do some sustained testing of motherboard/CPU combinations for stability and compatibility; I bet nVidia based motherboards would defeat VIA based ones hands-down.

 

[NFS4]

<< NFS4,

Keep filling that paper cup up, i'm sure you'll save them from sinking some day.

I'm not spreading BS, just stating what I think, and if you think i'm the only one who doesn't like Via, your dreaming.

If you like Via fine, I could care less, I'm not bashing your company, I just don't like them. If you can praise the hell out of them/defend them, then I can say what I think. Since I don't want some person looking for a new motherboard that doesn't know anything about them, to see you telling them to get a Via board, when I know Via sucks (sorry, it's what I think).

BTW, funny quote about the 80% market share, wasn't that about where 3DFX was when nVidia came in and slowley but surley crushed them? Calm down bud, the last thing I would wanna do is start a war over what motherboard is better, let alone waste my time defending/promoting a board, am I getting paid by these companies to do that? No, I could care less what board sucks and whats good, the man was asking a question about what to get, and I told him my story, case closed. >>


VIA is not "my" company, but when people start spreading around false and misleading information I step in. I don't care what your opinion is of VIA, but when you start spreading misinformation that pisses me off.

There is a difference between stating what you think and spreading false information.

 

[NFS4]

<< I've been wondering for some time what turned you from VIA hater to VIA defender. I remember back when the nForce chipset was announced, half a year ago or so, you expressed impatience and delight, looking forward to the time you wouldn't have to rely on VIA's pieces of sh** any more.

An then what happened, now that nForce based motherboards have started to become available, and VIA based boards continue to have at least some of the problems that we have all come to be familiar with (most importantly IDE performance issues, and general stability issues)?

You keep dwelling on the fact that if you put three memory sticks into an nForce motherboard, it automatically runs the memory at 200 MHz. Is that the reason why you have turned cold toward the chipset? You might find it interesting to note that apparently, MSI is just about to release a new BIOS version (2.2), which gives you the option of disabling that feature, so that you can run three sticks at 266 MHz. >>


I have no beef with the nForce and I have NOT bashed it. I have never bashed the nForce. In fact I think it is a great integrated chipset, but in this particular case, he is better off keeping what he has.

As for my earlier thoughts on nForce:

1) At the time I was using a KT133A board (Abit KT7A-RAID) w/SB Live! which was causing problems. After I got a Santa Cruz, my problems went away and it was one of the most stable boards I have ever owned. And I wasn't really a VIA hater after I found out that it was the Live! causing the problems (given that the Live! also caused problems with Intel's i815 chipset).
2) At the time nForce was announced it was pretty friggen awesome. But it was about 3 months late. By that time, it was nothing special and KT266A was already out.
3) The 3 DIMM thing isn't what turned me against the chipset. I never WAS against it. It is a GREAT integrated motherboard. It just doesn't make sense in this case to switch from the Soyo to the nForce given he has a fast, stable system already. The nForce wouldn't given him anything he doesn't already have.
4) IDE performance issue?? Intel has the same problems, read the thread in GH.

 

[DashK]

The 3 dimm thing isn't a problem, it's well stated the 3rd dimm only supports one sided memory, if you wanna use 2 sided memory anyways, and it doesn't work, what do you expect?

It seems most companies are losing the 3rd dimm anyways, Abits nforce boards have 2, and I think the 415-D board from Asus will have 2, the 3rd dimm is useless anyways, I would never use it, I've never had more than 2 dimms at a time.

BTW thats hardley anything inlight of all the problems/patches Via boards need. Via does suck now, but if they ever get their act together and put out a better rock solid chipset, I will be the first one in to get one. If you only care about FSB speeds and 3DMark scores, then I'm sure Via is the 2nd coming of Christ to you. But I prefer to have my PC stable, and not have to worry about weekly patches and bio flashes, or other problems that pop up or can't even be fixed (SB Live).

 

[LocutusX]

<< The only issue I have with VIA is the PCI bus throughput. It should have decent PCI performance out of the box, period - or at least decent PCI when you install the 4-in-1's. Right now the only fix that I know of for this LONG STANDING issue (had it even on my KX133 years ago, and its still there on KT266A), is not even made by VIA?

Once that's fixed and the 4-in-1's are more stable, VIA will be much better! >>



I'm also wondering why no-one seems to care about this. I guess the majority of the "power users" on this board just use their computer to log on to the forums, check email, and play CS online. The "real" power users are those of us heavy into audio/video capture/editing/encoding... the ones whose hard drives never stop churning.

 

[NFS4]

<< The 3 dimm thing isn't a problem, it's well stated the 3rd dimm only supports one sided memory, if you wanna use 2 sided memory anyways, and it doesn't work, what do you expect?

It seems most companies are losing the 3rd dimm anyways, Abits nforce boards have 2, and I think the 415-D board from Asus will have 2, the 3rd dimm is useless anyways, I would never use it, I've never had more than 2 dimms at a time.

BTW thats hardley anything inlight of all the problems/patches Via boards need. Via does suck now, but if they ever get their act together and put out a better rock solid chipset, I will be the first one in to get one. If you only care about FSB speeds and 3DMark scores, then I'm sure Via is the 2nd coming of Christ to you. But I prefer to have my PC stable, and not have to worry about weekly patches and bio flashes, or other problems that pop up or can't even be fixed (SB Live). >>


1) I DO happen to use 3 DIMM slots. And single-sided DDR memory is about as rare as unicorns
2) I'm not a VIA lover. I like ALL chipsets b/c each has its advantages:

KT266A - Great performance for a reasonable price
SiS735 - Great performance for a STEAL!
nForce - Awesome integrated soltion

 

[chizow]

<< 1) I DO happen to use 3 DIMM slots. And single-sided DDR memory is about as rare as unicorns >>



LoL....good one.

Anyway, I myself have no loyalties to Via, but I also hate seeing FUD spread around like peanut butter. Why are you guys calling NFS4 a Via-Lover when its seems like DashK is just another zealot Via-basher. NFS4 is just fighting the good fight vs. the dreaded FUD that lurks these boards. Wouldn't be surprised if DashK is just an alias of one of the better known Via-bashing trolls. I also love when people who know nothing about the business/economic aspects of 3dfx's demise comment about nVidia "crushing" them. If ya did your homework before commenting on such matters, you would know that 3dfx never approached total market share when compared to nVidia or ATI because they geared their products toward the enthusiast. As we all know, this market was extremely volatile and given the fierce competition, product lifecycles and development were short. nVidia and ATI controlled large portions of the OEM market...which is closer to the 80% market share of all video cards. So while 3dfx was fighting for a small slice of the pie, nVidia and ATI were buoyed by healthy portions of the lions share of the pie..............and that is why 3dfx is no more (not to mention the poor decision to mfg and market their cards in-house). 3dfx while in existence put out top-notch products (even though the V5 was 1 product cycle late it was a great card and their next-gen looked promising), and their driver support and stability is still unparalleled today. Its funny how nVidiots bash everyone else b/c of shoddy drivers. It wasn't that long ago that you had to "detonate" and "re-detonate" your drivers over and over until you found the right one. Wonder if its just a coincidence that they finally started putting out solid drivers once they got some 3dfx folk in-house

Chiz

 

[CraigJay]

I was never able to get my only attempt at using a VIA chipset (KT133a) stable. I just never had it in me to get things working worth a darn. Since I upgraded to the new BIOS and use the nForce reference drivers, I can't make my nForce unstable. It just works great. Install ONE driver and you are done.

Craig

 

[Bingo13]

I have had better luck with my N-Force and ALI solutions regarding overall system stability than with the VIA KT266a boards I have used. Of course all of this depends on setting a system up correctly with quality components.

 

[Wind]

Imyourzero,

The current mobo u hv is fine and probably one of the best chipset around. I would agreed w/ others tht u keep tht mobo. But if u insisted on switching (I called it parallel swicthing)...go ahead.

I notice from the tread tht u seems to find a reason to switch (indicating all VIA probs). But I must say tht must of the probs r either solved long time ago OR not entirely VIA fault.

 

[Wind]

<< The 3 dimm thing isn't a problem, it's well stated the 3rd dimm only supports one sided memory, if you wanna use 2 sided memory anyways, and it doesn't work, what do you expect?

It seems most companies are losing the 3rd dimm anyways, Abits nforce boards have 2, and I think the 415-D board from Asus will have 2, the 3rd dimm is useless anyways, I would never use it, I've never had more than 2 dimms at a time.

BTW thats hardley anything inlight of all the problems/patches Via boards need. Via does suck now, but if they ever get their act together and put out a better rock solid chipset, I will be the first one in to get one. If you only care about FSB speeds and 3DMark scores, then I'm sure Via is the 2nd coming of Christ to you. But I prefer to have my PC stable, and not have to worry about weekly patches and bio flashes, or other problems that pop up or can't even be fixed (SB Live). >>



Nforce is not a mature chipset yet. Dun jump the gun on this one. The true stability of the chipset is still untested (at least throughly). Who knows ?....Nforce might need more frequent patch than VIA. LOL.

Some of the info u r giving above is "misleading". Although u had mentioned tht its ur opinion...I suggest u hv a second thought again (do some research)...

 

[Mem]

<< I'm also wondering why no-one seems to care about this. I guess the majority of the "power users" on this board just use their computer to log on to the forums, check email, and play CS online. The "real" power users are those of us heavy into audio/video capture/editing/encoding... the ones whose hard drives never stop churning. >>



I guess it really all depends on what you use your PC for,I use mine for general stuff with lots of heavy gaming and as long as I can play games fine with no stability problems both in gaming and general use then I`m not too bothered eitherway,this is what I expect from all the chipsets I`ve had which include Intel,SiS and now VIA.

Some people worry too much about benchmarks figures etc,I just expect my PC to do the things I use it for without any problems,if it does that then I`m happy,I do put gaming stability first but normally find if you`ve gaming stability then your PC is normally very stable in general.

 

[Athlon4all]

Bravo! Bravo! Well said chizow. Couldn't agree more about not being a VIA lover, but hating the mis-info that is going around.

 

[LocutusX]

<< I guess it really all depends on what you use your PC for,I use mine for general stuff with lots of heavy gaming and as long as I can play games fine with no stability problems both in gaming and general use then I`m not too bothered eitherway,this is what I expect from all the chipsets I`ve had which include Intel,SiS and now VIA. >>



I used to play games a lot but I started getting into a/v stuff a short while after I got my P3-800. Stability never crossed my mind, because it was a P3-600E @ 840mhz, on an Asus P3V4X (VIA chipset! OMG!) and using 3 sticks of RAM each by a different vendor! I would do 14 hour encoding sessions and the resulting product was always free of errors.

Of course, when I was shopping for my AthlonXP I was aware of VIA's track record with Athlon chipsets (686B bug, etc.) but I figured that with the "A" revision of the KT266 everything would be "A-okay". That wasn't quite the case.

Mind you there are (usually) always workarounds to problems like these (in my case... reduce the strain on the PCI bus) but these are things we can all live without.



<< Some people worry too much about benchmarks figures etc,I just expect my PC to do the things I use it for without any problems,if it does that then I`m happy,I do put gaming stability first but normally find if you`ve gaming stability then your PC is normally very stable in general. >>



I agree. Many people worry far too much about benchmarks, and guess what, those are the last people to notice a difference.

I am personally more interested in stability than speed, but I don't play 3D games at all so my stability test-set consists of DNETC, Prime95, memtest86 and Sandra.

Of course, I do like to try and tweak the rig so I can get the most speed without any stability loss. It's nice to be able to speed up a 15 hour work session by even just 8%. That's a 1.2hour savings. They can add up...