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should i get rid of UAC?

M

ManBearPig

Diamond Member
its getting kind of annoying, and im pretty damn sure i can handle the programs on my own...any opinions? if so, how would i go about doing this?
 
Any opinions?
Click to expand...

My opinion is that it should be left enabled. Disable UAC, and you throw file-system and Registry virtualization out the window, give up Protected Mode, and cast away a valuable proactive defense against exploits and malware that you won't be able to stop by yourself. The people who suggest disabling UAC, are almost always the ones who don't know anything more about it than the Continue/Cancel prompts.

If you're having non-stop UAC prompts that are bugging you, maybe post the situation so people can help you solve it, instead of shooting the messenger (UAC).
 
If you consider yourself a tech savvy person, then you shouldn't even need this question... just saying.
(I personally don't use UAC...)
 
I agree with Quiksilver.

If you are tech-savvy enough to be able to handle yourself, you won't need to ask this question. The very fact that you are asking it, makes me say you're better off leaving it on.

But, there is one thing you should know. When running a program for the first time, you can set the UAC to permanently allow the feature or app. That way it will never bother you again, even if you run it multiple times.

In your case, leave it ON.
 
I actually consider myself decently savvy, ive just been using xp for a really long time and heard that oblivion mods were having trouble w/ it. Thanks for your concern, ty for the advice, guess ill see how the game goes.
 
Originally posted by: sswingle
I leave mine on. I don't find the warnings to occur often enough to get annoyed.
Click to expand...

Same here. UAC only questions what ought to be questioned, and I have uses for the virtualization and the enhanced security. No, you cannot match UAC's security enhancements by your own l33tness and tech-saavyness, folks.

 
Definably disable. in fact it's probably worse for non tech people then tech people as they'll just call you up complaining all the time and want a solution NOW. thing is it wont really stop malware. Malware will just bypass that whole process and go do it's stuff directly on the system. the same way a virus can leak through IE even as a non admin user. I see it happen all the time. Malware is coded to bypass all that type of security.
 
Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
Definably disable. in fact it's probably worse for non tech people then tech people as they'll just call you up complaining all the time and want a solution NOW. thing is it wont really stop malware. Malware will just bypass that whole process and go do it's stuff directly on the system. the same way a virus can leak through IE even as a non admin user. I see it happen all the time. Malware is coded to bypass all that type of security.
Click to expand...

:laugh:

UAC is a LOT more then just prompts for installing software.

I suggest reading some of mechBgon's posts about all the extra security enhancements UAC brings to the table like Registry virtualization and IE Protected mode(which he already mentioned in this thread).

One thing you can NOT protect against are users, if they want to install malware they'll find a way, but using UAC properly is a giant step towards protecting end users.
 
So if you turn off UAC it turns off all the other stuff too? that's kind of silly they should just give the option to disable the popups only. That's the part that is super annoying to users. Yes I'm sure, that's why I clicked there!
 
Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
So if you turn off UAC it turns off all the other stuff too? that's kind of silly they should just give the option to disable the popups only. That's the part that is super annoying to users. Yes I'm sure, that's why I clicked there!
Click to expand...

So if you disable the popups... then when a piece of malware comes along and attempts to install the user won't be notified? Sounds like a plan to me.....

The point is that UAC prevents bad things from happening to your OS, and when you ARE going to be performing an action that will alter the OS you need to confirm that it's you wanting to do it and not some other application trying to delete your entire C:\Program Files\ folder.
 
Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
Definably disable. in fact it's probably worse for non tech people then tech people as they'll just call you up complaining all the time and want a solution NOW. thing is it wont really stop malware. Malware will just bypass that whole process and go do it's stuff directly on the system. the same way a virus can leak through IE even as a non admin user. I see it happen all the time. Malware is coded to bypass all that type of security.
Click to expand...

Actually, it stops malware quite well, in my considerable experience :camera:. Nothing has ever successfully subverted IE in Protected Mode in the course of my malware hunting, let alone day-to-day use.

If you actually know of any malware that "is coded to bypass all that type of security" in a real-world scenario, I'm certainly interested in hearing the specifics.

Originally posted by: Kazaam
how can i set it to remember programs i have authorized??
Click to expand...

Can you be specific? What software do you use that cannot function without Admin rights?
 
Originally posted by: mechBgon
Actually, it stops malware quite well, in my considerable experience :camera:. Nothing has ever successfully subverted IE in Protected Mode in the course of my malware hunting, let alone day-to-day use.
Click to expand...

THAT looks interesting. Do you have your experiments published online somewhere? Can I see them? How did you test anyway?
 
Originally posted by: chronodekar
Originally posted by: mechBgon
Actually, it stops malware quite well, in my considerable experience :camera:. Nothing has ever successfully subverted IE in Protected Mode in the course of my malware hunting, let alone day-to-day use.
Click to expand...

THAT looks interesting. Do you have your experiments published online somewhere? Can I see them? How did you test anyway?
Click to expand...

Here's an analysis of just one of many, many batches I collected: http://www.antisource.com/arti...ntispyware-comparisons Originally posted here as a thread, later turned into an article. The real point is that people shouldn't get cocky just because they have antivirus software, because it's not a cure-all.

As for methodology, I have three main methods. One is to run a highly-vulnerable Win2000 virtual machine while monitoring it with Microsoft Network Monitor 3.2 to see what's happening, where it's getting the malware from. If necessary, I can send the host system (Vista) directly to grab copies of the files using IE7 in Protected Mode, unless they've got referrer monitoring. I can also set up the VM's Temp folders and Temporary Internet Files folder in "flypaper" mode, where stuff can be written to them, but not deleted from them.

Another variation: use a real Win2000 system, set up with tons of vulnerable out-of-date stuff, as a honeypot. This helps when the malware is designed to detect virtual machines and play dumb in a VM. When the session's over, Acronis TrueImage recovery reverts the system to its original state. Some malware, notably NewMediaCodec variants, are also time-delay bombs that require setting the clock forward a day after executing the trojan... crafty :evil:

With either of those two methods, the usual malware-detection tools can be used to harvest the samples unless the system becomes unbootable or unresponsive.

Lastly, I can take the direct "I dare you" approach by sending Vista directly to the malicious site to see what's there, and/or to download malware files directly, with or without antivirus protection. I'll never recommend such behavior, but the reality is that IE7 is a pretty tough cookie in Protected Mode. This is the least productive approach since it offers little attack surface, but if my VM is blue-screened or unresponsive, plucking the malware URLs from Network Monitor and harvesting them with IE7 Protected Mode is worth a shot. The closest I've seen to a successful compromise here, is scripted clickjacking (example: MSI's site got hijacked) that daisy-chains a bunch of site visits to make search revenue... this can be controlled with IE's security Zones if desired.

/rambling

I used to be a bit OCD with the malware-hunting gig... I typically submitted more malware per day than the entire CastleCops MIRT. It wasn't exactly healthy, so now I just do it when needed, such as when a first-time poster posts a suspicious link here.

Regarding the original topic here... I think I'm pretty compotent, and know what attack vectors to expect, but I still see value in UAC. One secondary benefit is that file-system and Registry virtualization humors old software and helps it run on Vista, even when it's breaking the rules... for example, my Mechwarrior4 games absolutely will NOT run as a non-Admin on WinXP, but they work fine as a non-Admin on Vista 😎
 
i remember pre-SP1 (or whatever it's called) UAC, with non-stop cascades of pop-ups. it seriously hampered my use of my computer. i'm sure it's better now, but i still leave it off. my perception of it is it's another hamfisted and useless effort, like readyboost and system restore.
 
Originally posted by: Kazaam
its getting kind of annoying, and im pretty damn sure i can handle the programs on my own...any opinions? if so, how would i go about doing this?
Click to expand...

Ditch UAC it sucks in vista. Windows 7 may impliment it in a less annoying way, that remains to be seen, but for now just disable it.

Start --> control panel --> user accounts and family safety -- > user accounts

Theres an option there to turn off UAC, you need to restart afterwards though.
 
Originally posted by: Maximilian
Originally posted by: Kazaam
its getting kind of annoying, and im pretty damn sure i can handle the programs on my own...any opinions? if so, how would i go about doing this?
Click to expand...

Ditch UAC it sucks in vista. Windows 7 may impliment it in a less annoying way, that remains to be seen, but for now just disable it.

Start --> control panel --> user accounts and family safety -- > user accounts

Theres an option there to turn off UAC, you need to restart afterwards though.
Click to expand...

Are you willing to help him clean up his computer when it inevitably gets infected?
 
Originally posted by: Crusty
Originally posted by: Maximilian
Originally posted by: Kazaam
its getting kind of annoying, and im pretty damn sure i can handle the programs on my own...any opinions? if so, how would i go about doing this?
Click to expand...

Ditch UAC it sucks in vista. Windows 7 may impliment it in a less annoying way, that remains to be seen, but for now just disable it.

Start --> control panel --> user accounts and family safety -- > user accounts

Theres an option there to turn off UAC, you need to restart afterwards though.
Click to expand...

Are you willing to help him clean up his computer when it inevitably gets infected?
Click to expand...

It wont.
 
Originally posted by: Maximilian
Originally posted by: Crusty
Originally posted by: Maximilian
Originally posted by: Kazaam
its getting kind of annoying, and im pretty damn sure i can handle the programs on my own...any opinions? if so, how would i go about doing this?
Click to expand...

Ditch UAC it sucks in vista. Windows 7 may impliment it in a less annoying way, that remains to be seen, but for now just disable it.

Start --> control panel --> user accounts and family safety -- > user accounts

Theres an option there to turn off UAC, you need to restart afterwards though.
Click to expand...

Are you willing to help him clean up his computer when it inevitably gets infected?
Click to expand...

It wont.
Click to expand...

How can you be so sure about that? Without preventive protection you're at the mercy of heuristics and definition signatures to find your malware, so if they don't have the latest rules you won't find your malware. Now if you had UAC on, the user would have the opportunity to prevent the piece of malware from installing/altering your system.

Ignorance is bliss I guess :disgust:
 
I've never experienced the irritation that fuels the complaints against UAC. I don't mind being prompted for credentials every now and then when installing/updating software or editing protected folders. It's been a fundamental procedure of *nix OSes for a long time now.

I don't game on the PC, so maybe that's part of the problem. I've never installed software that doesn't cooperate well with UAC.

Perhaps these Oblivion mods are trying to write to the game folder inside Program Files or something? Maybe you can just edit that particular folder's permissions to take care of it.

What I can say about UAC is that when my BIL lived with us, it 100% protected my system from the loads of malware and junk software he attempted to install so many times.
 
its kind of annoying when i want to open any program it asks me...like when i want to extract something from winrar it asks every time...if i open up rivatuner it asks every damn time, etc...getting kind of annoying.
 
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