Should I get a RAID controller?

[davidst99]

Hi,

I have two 512GB Samsung 550 Pro running in RAID 0 and two 4TB WD Black hard drives running in RAID 1. I'm using the Intel RAID that's on my motherboard (Gigabyte GT Z97). Would I see any performance improvements if I get a dedicated RAID controller? Do motherboards RAID setup use the CPU? I'm kind of newbie with RAID controllers. Thanks.

David

 

[corkyg]

You ask a good question. This comparison between software and hardware RAID gives the answer. http://www.computerweekly.com/news/1367590/Software-RAID-vs-hardware-RAID-Pros-and-cons

So, if the cost increase is not an issue, you should see a performance gain. There are other advantages as well as the above article suggests.

 

[davidst99]

You ask a good question. This comparison between software and hardware RAID gives the answer. http://www.computerweekly.com/news/1367590/Software-RAID-vs-hardware-RAID-Pros-and-cons

So, if the cost increase is not an issue, you should see a performance gain. There are other advantages as well as the above article suggests.

Thanks for the link! It is very helpful.

David

 

[smitbret]

If you go that route, just make sure you get a Real Hardware RAID controller and not one of those PCI expansion cards that just expands the onboard software RAID.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'd "been there" with a Highpoint controller followed by a 3Ware 9650SE.

I guess I didn't like the expense of it, and after using a 4-drive RAID5 for five years, I didn't feel a need for that, either.

I was looking for a controller that allowed for AHCI mode in addition to RAID without any fuss, and found this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-365-_-Product

It is spec'd or billed as being a "hardware controller," although it doesn't have any 256 MB buffer that I know of. Instead of buying one, big 8-port controller for $500, I got two of these for maybe $140 total. They work great -- together -- in the same box. I don't even use the port-multiplier feature, which would require purchase of the port-multiplier itself.

If you want to use the RAID features, you enter the card's BIOS and configure it as such. But it's also great for AHCI configurations.

 

[MongGrel]

Looks they've dropped over time.

I've an old ARECA 1210 I think it was hardware RAID in I've been using many years now, the performance on those are good as they some load off the CPU.

I'm sure the newer ones might be even better, but I've had 4 X1TB WD RE3s in here a long time I've even just moved from one board to another.

Took it out of one computer on a rebuild for storage, hooked everything up again and installed the software for the card and reads the whole arrays like one HDD, no lost info.

I have a separate smaller one similar to what you listed I use for my SSD's and the DVD.

I imagine are others, but have been using this one for the SSD's etc awhile now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815287028

It will not use 6 ports at once.

The Hyper Duo on both is a bit interesting, I had a 500Gb WD Black using it with the two Sammy 120 SSD's for awhile before I put the Black elsewhere, it actually put out pretty impressive numbers as a Hybrid drive setup with the three together using it to make a big single RAID drive att.

Tempted to try one of the one Bonzai put up there myself, but really not needed here I guess, it looks nice.

 

[KentState]

What are you looking to with the RAID setup? Only specific use cases will realize any true benefit from a dedicated card.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Looks they've dropped over time.

I've an old ARECA 1210 I think it was hardware RAID in I've been using many years now, the performance on those are good as they some load off the CPU.

I'm sure the newer ones might be even better, but I've had 4 X1TB WD RE3s in here a long time I've even just moved from one board to another.

Took it out of one computer on a rebuild for storage, hooked everything up again and installed the software for the card and reads the whole arrays like one HDD, no lost info.

I have a separate smaller one similar to what you listed I use for my SSD's and the DVD.

I imagine are others, but have been using this one for the SSD's etc awhile now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815287028

It will not use 6 ports at once.

The Hyper Duo on both is a bit interesting, I had a 500Gb WD Black using it with the two Sammy 120 SSD's for awhile before I put the Black elsewhere, it actually put out pretty impressive numbers as a Hybrid drive setup with the three together using it to make a big single RAID drive att.

Tempted to try one of the one Bonzai put up there myself, but really not needed here I guess, it looks nice.

I've had little to complain about the StarTech products as far as I could remember. It may have been after the fact of my purchase, but there seems to be an opinion afoot that Vantec and possibly one or two others that use the same or similar Marvel chip that offers Hyper-Duo -- are "OK" or "just as good, costing less."

But I only suspect that some of the Startech products are made by some . . . sub-contractor or other outfit, and then rebranded. Their Tech-support is pretty good -- good response time, congenial e-mails. But sometimes you get the feeling they know less about this or that item than they might. Can't be absolutely sure.

 

[Railgun]

I was looking for a controller that allowed for AHCI mode in addition to RAID without any fuss, and found this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-365-_-Product

Depending on what drives you put behind this, it could be a bottleneck. Only looking at 1GB throughput at best. Granted, it may be fine for most, but it's something to take into consideration.

 

[therealnickdanger]

I bought an Areca 8-port 1222 several years ago and it offers great performance... but it can't relay SMART data to any monitoring software, making drive failures surprising. I used to run RAID-6 in my media server (35TB) and reads/writes typically saturated my network (~120MB/sec), but after a rebuild that took two days, I switched it over to JBOD and now manage everything with software - Stablebit Drivepool and Scanner. Best $35 I've ever spent.

Adding and removing drives to the pool is so freaking simple, duplication of certain folders is easier to manage, and the performance still saturates my network. It still doesn't solve the problem of my Areca not passing SMART data, but the Stablebit Scanner runs tests in the background that alert me to potential drive problems. I'm using it with WHS 2011, but the software is compatible with all versions of Windows. Sorry if this sounds like a commercial, but I can't recommend it enough.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Depending on what drives you put behind this, it could be a bottleneck. Only looking at 1GB throughput at best. Granted, it may be fine for most, but it's something to take into consideration.

Actually, I rather doubt that it is. I think, instead, that the bottleneck is the PCI-E 1.x slots on the old motherboard I use with the server. I think I'd see a boost in throughput with PCI-E 2.x.

Therealnickdanger says it all for me, though, except that he has that Areca controller. I wish I still had possession of the 9650SE 3Ware controller I passed to my brother, but it only had four ports, and it was after all an SATA-II controller.

NIckDanger is giving up any extra speed he might get from RAID0, but I think he's spot-on about Stable-Bit Drive-Pool and Scanner -- I also have both-- and my drives work in AHCI mode. We're both using the orphaned WHS-2011. I just don't understand the lack of SMART transparency, but maybe it's just the age of that Areca model. My two StarTech controllers are totally transparent with SMART, though.

 

[therealnickdanger]

To be clear, I never used RAID-0. I bought the Areca-1222 strictly for its 8 ports and RAID-6 capability (I wanted extra redundancy).

However, now it is just being used as a dumb 8-port expansion card. Stablebit is effectively controlling everything in a RAID-1, except for very important folders that are copied to multiple drives. Stablebit automatically equalizes free space across all drives, prioritizes files based on access frequency, etc. In the event that it gets SMART warnings about a particular drive, it can be configured to move data off that drive. As a bonus, in the event that data is stored on multiple drives, Stablebit will read it off of multiple drives to boost read speeds, so I'm still able to saturate my 1GbE connection.

 

[schmuckley]

Unless it's a DDR3 4gb Areca or LSI, no.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...A&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[therealnickdanger]

Unless it's a DDR3 4gb Areca or LSI, no.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...A&gclsrc=aw.ds

Yeah, if you truly want RAID outside of a prebuilt NAS, then you should really go big or not at all. Having first gone the hardware route, then the software route, I think I can safely argue that modern software drivepool technology is superior for home use/small business. The performance is really good, the power consumption is better, and the accessibility and options are better.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Yeah, if you truly want RAID outside of a prebuilt NAS, then you should really go big or not at all. Having first gone the hardware route, then the software route, I think I can safely argue that modern software drivepool technology is superior for home use/small business. The performance is really good, the power consumption is better, and the accessibility and options are better.

"Yup!" to this and post #12 also. I just didn't know you were using the controller in RAID mode with Stable-bit.

I had an extensive dialog with a tech-rep at Cove-Cube/Stable-bit and learned a lot about the software. You can have multiple pools, and you can mount them and unmount them. If you bork your server OS and need to completely reinstall it, you would attend to reinstalling the StableBit software next. When you hook up all the drives again, it will recognize the original pool and do what needs to be done in balancing and other factors without further intervention.

 

[therealnickdanger]

Yes, the options are astounding by comparison! I was originally using the Areca for RAID-6, but then started over so now the Areca is in JBOD-passthrough mode and Stablebit controls everything.

 

[bwbob]

If you go that route, just make sure you get a Real Hardware RAID controller and not one of those PCI expansion cards that just expands the onboard software RAID.

agree - I went with a "real" controller - LSI 9260. It was a huge improvement over the Intel onboard. If you're on a budget like me, check ebay - there's usually 9240's and 9260's at decent prices

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Somehow I think the justification for a 4-port hardware RAID controller in a workstation has diminished with the emergence of SATA-III and SSD technology. Usage patterns might mean a lot for the other possible options that could fulfill "a need for speed."

Redundancy is a wise consideration, but if you can provide it by another means -- as with automated server backup of network clients -- there's no urgent need to provide it as well at the workstation. It's worth at least thinking about whether you want double the HDDs, and SSDs are still expensive.

As for the server perspective, it would depend on the number of users making frequent access. I guess I already said I'm a happy StableBit Drivepool user.

 

[Franzi]

If its just RAID 0 or 1 you wont see much, if any, performance difference compared to an onboard solution. RAID 5/6 is where dedicated controllers make all the difference.

And since you have SSD's in a RAID 0 array keep in mind most dedicated controller cards do not handle TRIM commmands, unlike the Intel Rapid Storage, which does it for a while now.

 

[exar333]

Having a discrete controller also makes life a lot easier if you jump to new boards/builds fairly-often.

 

[tweakboy]

A good RAID your gonna have to pay 700 to 2k on a RAID setup. gl

 

[Wuzup101]

Therealnickdanger says it all for me, though, except that he has that Areca controller. I wish I still had possession of the 9650SE 3Ware controller I passed to my brother, but it only had four ports, and it was after all an SATA-II controller.

I picked an 8 port version up about 6-12 months ago (I can't remember exactly when it was) from ebay for under a $100 shipped with the battery backup setup. I probably don't need it, but it does what I want it to do.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

If its just RAID 0 or 1 you wont see much, if any, performance difference compared to an onboard solution. RAID 5/6 is where dedicated controllers make all the difference.

And since you have SSD's in a RAID 0 array keep in mind most dedicated controller cards do not handle TRIM commmands, unlike the Intel Rapid Storage, which does it for a while now.

For SSD's, I think it's more likely that such is true for a RAID-mode configuration on such cards. With the StarTech/Marvell controllers I mentioned, you don't even bother with the card BIOS if you want them to run in AHCI mode, and for that -- they simply require the native MSAHCI driver. I ran TrimCheck against them, and they're "TRIM-enabled" for the SSD's I was using in my server. I had one for the boot-system disk, and another for shadow copies and the swap file. The second one was unneeded complexity, used a port that had better uses, so I reallocated the SSD to serve as a caching drive in another system.

That's what caught my attention about those cards. It was a feature for which I was looking specifically.