Should I Get A GF2 MX Or A Radeon 32?

[BFG10K]

As I've been hinting in my posts the last few days I am seriously considering getting a Radeon SDR/DDR 32 (hopefully SDR, more on that later) instead of a GF2 MX.

My system is a Celeron 500 (stock speed), Gigabyte BX2000+ motherboard, 192 MB SDRAM and Windows 98 SE. I currently have a Voodoo 3 2000 PCI and I do not want another 3dfx board.

I am after a board which:
(1) Increases my framerates (both raw and high res).
(2) Increases my framerates now and scales well when I upgrade to a faster CPU later.
(3) Has good image quality across all games.
(4) Has good driver compatibility across all games.
(5) Is stable in terms of hardware and software.
(6) Is rated for the gamer on a budget (I don't want high-end stuff)
(7) Will give good perfomance on the next generation of games.

I mainly play fps games like Quake 1-3, Unreal/UT (Direct 3D) and Halflife.

These are the following points I have gathered against each of the boards:

GF2 MX
(1) Bad 2D image quality.
(2) Bad texture compression quality in Quake 3 (and possibly other games too)
(3) Incompatibility with certain motherboards.
(4) Unstable drivers.

ATI Radeon
(1) Bad 2D image quality as well (to a lesser extent though).
(2) Bad drivers and no guaranteed upgrades (typical of ATI's previous driver releases).
(3) Costs more than the MX.
(4) I may not be able to get the SDR model and I will have to pay more for the DDR model.

This last point in particular is something I want to know about. I have read the SDR is an OEM only option. Does this mean I can't get it unless I buy a new system, or can I just get a shrinkwrapped version?

If I can't get the SDR version I will have to pay more for the DDR version which is something I don't really want to do unless the Radeon is a lot better than the MX.

Now I want everyone who has tried these boards to post and tell me the good and bad things about them, with particular context to the points that I mentioned. Also if some of the points I have made against the boards are wrong or innaccurate, please let me know. I am especially interested from those that have tried both boards and can do a direct comparison.

Thanks.

 

[Dark4ng3l]

ok here it goes voodoo 5 fsaa ROCKS get this card

 

[Dark4ng3l]

seriously I heard the radeon has very good 2d quality(2nd to matrox) I think 32mb ddr boards come with 50$ rebates not sure tho

 

[rickn]

Radeon has excellent 2d image quality

 

[Hawk]

Yeah, I haven't heard anyone say the Radeon has bad 2d (except for the "shimmering effect" on Trinitron monitors. And you can get the 32 MB DDR for like $199.99 at Fry's or Best Buy and get that 50 rebate.

 

[Deeko]

Definitly the Radeon.

 

[glen]

Grab the GFmx to tide you over till the NV20 comes out.

 

[gerbz]

I was in the same boat.
I bought the Radeon32ddr ($200-50rebate at best buy) yesterday to replace my TNT1.
The 2d is crisp, the drivers are stable(I've already installed the new 9-19-00 drivers) and in 32 bit color with high resolutions, it's faster than the GF2 let alone the GF2-mx.
here's some of what swayed me:

radeonvsGF2

 

[BFG10K]

here's some of what swayed me:

Is that BenSkywalker I see posting there?

I must admit the Radeon is looking better and better all the time. But keep those reponses coming!

Does that $50 rebate apply only in the U.S?

 

[Jgtdragon]

Another vote for Radeon. Great 2D and excellent 3D.

 

[BW]

i have a trinitron monitor and i get no shimering effect.Thats just me though.

 

[Mustanggt]

I dont have a Radeon but have read hours worth of posts and reviews and except for that shimmering thing the radeon is supposed to be the best card out there except for the GTS ultra of course but whos gonna spend $500 bucks on one not me. as for the MX I dont see what the hype is about on that one it scores the same or sometimes lower than a Geforse sdr and there the same price??

 

[RogueOne]

Definitely the Radeon 32 DDR. Go to best buy, like the other guy said, and buy it for 200. Its better than any deals you can find online.'

Secondly, the Radeon has some of the best 2d quality out there, rivaling Matrox's. I know because I own a Radeon 64 Vivo and it looks absolutely wonderful, much better than my previous TNT2.

Thirdly, the Radeon will serve you well way farther into the future than any GF MX will, for several reasons. First is its featureset. It has the best featureset to date with more features than any other video card on the market such as 4 matrice skinning and keyframe interpolation.

Second is Hyper Z technology, for more reasons than are apparrent now. If you study the latest benchmarks with a Radeon 32 DDR vs a Geforce 2 GTS 32 DDR, you'll find that the Radeon consistently scores extremely close to the Geforce 2, so close that the two are virtually indistinguishable when you're staring at the screen (except for the spectacular 32 bit color the Radeon has). Now this is really amazing considering a few things:
1) That the Radeon has 2 pixel pipeline vs the Geforce 2's 4 pixel pipeline.
2) That the Radeon has a third texture unit in each of its 2 pixel pipelines not being used at all.
3)That the Geforce 2 is clocked at 200 MHZ vs the Radeon 32 DDR's slower 166 MHZ.

But there are still 3 more benefits. The second being good control of frame rate fluctuation, giving smoother gameplay. By not rendering hidden surfaces, the Radeon can keep the processing requirements of each frame similar enough that there is very little jerkyness during gameplay. Since the Geforce 2 is forced to render everything including hidden surfaces, they have to render as is, meaning there are more fluctuations between frames, giving less smooth gameplay. This feature is especially useful at high resolutions, when the frames hover around 30fps. With the GF2/mx cards, gameplay is virtually impossible because of the jerkyness. The Radeon can keep the frames running smooth at extremely high resoltuions.

The third is closely related to the second, and that is in futurability. As games get more complex, current cards will lose a lot of ground to the Radeon. The Radeon can cut out the hidden parts in each frame, cutting down the load it has to render. The Geforce MX has to render as is, and its performance will slow to a crawl very quickly while the Radeon will fare better against the complexities. If you add more texturing features, the Radeon will maintain its framerate because of the third texture units. And with the added featureset that will be taken advantage of by direct x 8, the Radeon has even more life to it. The Radeon is geared toward the future. As games get more advanced, the complexities will add up against it making it less valuable.

The fourth is T&L. As you add more vertices to the screen, the Z buffer becomes a bottleneck. And each vertice you add requires a Z test. Since the Radeons Hyper Z technology can cut out much of the processing load before it hits the z buffer and the rendering pipelines, it increases the T&L processing capabilities. This ability is still being explored, but preliminary numbers look excellent as a Radeon 64 DDR can beat out a Geforce 2 Ultra when the vertice count gets beefed up in quake 3. Check out http://www.aceshardware.com/board/general/read.php?message_id=20008422 for more info.

So for the price of 150 bucks, a Radeon 32 DDR is within spitting distance of the Geforce MX's price range and offers a ton more in the way of its abilities now and in upcoming games. Yeah, ATi has had bad driver support in the past, but just look at how its improved now. You see less incompatibilities with Radeons than with Geforces. I could go on, but I think I've bored you enough. Go for the Radeon 32 DDR.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I would go with the 32MB DDR Radeon, it is the overall better gaming card. If you can get it for $150 after rebate, that makes it nearly identical to the GF2MX board and it is much better in terms of performance, closer to the GF2 GTS.

"Is that BenSkywalker I see posting there?"

No, it's some little flaming wannabe twerp trying to use my name to bolster himself. Pretty sad. I was registered in that forum under my usual name(there is no space between Ben and Skywalker) but that is by far the most hostile and intollerant forum I've ever seen. Remember that flamer that came here a while ago and had some big problems with me? Same guy, he has since reregistered himself here(for the fourth time at least that I know of) and has been keeping out of the flame wars, but is just a sad individual in desperate need of attention. What is more disturbing is the zealotry of the ATi fanatics. Used to be a very friendly group of people, now there are too many that make the nVidiots and 3dfx zombies seem open minded by comparison. They lie and twist facts to a sickening degree to try and make their own purchase seem more intelligent.

 

[Trifecta]

I would be another vote for the Radeon.

Two points that I would like to make.

#1. I am a diehard nvidia fan
#2. I still cant believe how good the radeon does in 32bit!!!

I got in on the BB Radeon 32MB DDR version at: $200 - 50 dollar rebate.

The best thing I ever did was return my Hercules Geforce2mx and get that Radeon for the same price.

I would have to say that I will be laughing as all of the people who have Geforce2s whine and complain when the new DirectX 8 features start rolling out. Then all of us who have a Radeon will be able to hold off for a while until the NEXT, NEXT generation video cards come out. Barring that everyone just bags playing games on pc's in favor of buying a X-Box...hehe

 

[Babrone]

Yet another radeon vote! I just upgraded from dual voodooo cards to the 64mb radeon and I can't believe the difference (yes, I know, anything would look good after using voodoo 2's). The color in all my games looks soooo much better now, and my fps went through the roof. I also have a trinitron monitor and I have never seen any shimmering effect. One last note, mine came clocked at 183, not 166. From what I have heard, the retail radeons are usually clocked a little faster than the oem, so consider spending the little bit extra (not sure if this only applies to the 64 meg card).

 

[Babrone]

One note I forgot to mention, if you are running win 2k then you may want to get a gforce card. The radeon win2k drivers are crappy for using 3d games.

 

[Doomguy]

I'm gonna have to say the GF2 probobly has much better game compatibility than the radeon due to much more mature drivers.

 

[waltski]

At Best Buy, rebates are printed out with your receipt. At Fry's Electronics, you have to ask the cashier to give you the rebate coupon.

As far as the recurring question of whether to buy a ATI Radeon 32MB DDR vs. a GeforceMX with 32 MB SDR, hasn't all the card comparisons done by Anand and Sharkey plus all the various postings convinced anyone that for the money, the Radeon 32 DDR is the better card of the two?

 

[han888]

BFG10K, i just installed geforce mx on my system 2 days ago, and i see the 2D quality is not too bad, and of course still can not beat my old G400 if for 2d quality, about the 3D quality the geforce ddr and geforce2 will perfom better. actually i want to have radeon caard, but it's hard to find radeon card in here (perth) that's why i get the geforce mx, and i also hear about the radeon dont have a driver for win2k!

========================
p3-800@1000 1.75v alpha pal35t
asus cusl2 1001.a
320Mb hyundai pc133
32Mb asus v7700 6.31
17 inch sony E200

p3-700@882 1.70 v alpha pal30t
asus cuv4x 1005
192mb hyundai pc133
32mb asus v7100 6.18
19 inch ctx vl950

 

[Trifecta]

Outpost has the VIVO 32MB DDR Radeon for 169 after mailin rebates!

MAke sure and get this card from them, it is retail and not oem (which is an underclocked poor ram card!)

I wish I had waited to get the VIVO feature!!!

 

[Techno]

BFG10K and a Radeon.... wow... never thought i would see those to words in the same sentince. Hell must be freezing over!

Anyways, my vote: RADEON.

 

[Dark4ng3l]

oem radeons are all clocked at 166 so if you get a 32 meg ddr board you might as wel get an oem version(unless you cant use the rebate hmmmm)

 

[PlunX]

Definitely go for the Radeon 32MB DDR. Here in Dallas, you can get them at Fry's for $129 after a $50 rebate.

 

[snipe505]

OK......well i'm sold on the RADEON, however i have a question, does anyone know the dif. between the OEM and retail ver. of the board? at ati's site it says that the non retail has only an optional video-in? is this true? and is it worth getting the more expensive reatil just to get the feature or not? i really just want a card for gaming, nothing else!