Should I change my transmission fluid???

[Psylence]

I recently purchased a 1988 Honda Accord with an automatic transmission. It has 150,000 miles on it and as far as I know, the tranny fluid has never been changed. I know for a fact that the guy I bought it from (who had it since 110,000 miles), never changed it.

I remember hearing somewhere that if you change the fluid after it has gone a really long time without being changed, the transmission could fall apart. Is this true? Or should I go ahead and change it?

 

[Adul]

well i dont know about it falling apart, but I do know that you need to change the trany fluid every 15 -20k miles. youa re way past ovedue there bud.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Urban myth, change it & the filter, use the Mobil 1 ATF stuff, I've gotten evidently very good service from my 91' Maxima's tranny & switched to Mobil 1 shortly after the break-in...

 

[Night201]

YES. Get it changed immediately. Ask them to show it to you. It's like checking your oil. It should be a reddish color. Yours will probably be a thick black -> Not good.

 

[Angrymarshmello]

Use the Honda brand tranny fluid (don't know exactly why but Garfang should be in here in about 10 minutes to say so)

 

[Evadman]

If you change it now there is a good possability you will wreck your tranny.

When the fluid is not changed, it looses it abailty to help in aiding friction between the steels and friction plates. When you change it with it being that old, it will stress the clutches too fast and too far, and strip the friction material off real fast, and you end up with a trans that goes no where.

If you are worried about it, have the tranny rebuilt. You will probably have to do it anyway if you change the fluid.

<edit>
It is not a myth. I have had it happen to me. Infact, on every one I changed on a fehic that had over 100k miles with original fluid. Except my jimmy, that had 82k on it when I changed it. I had a honda Prelude that as far as I knew had the original fluid in it, and it had 200k miles on it and ran like a champ.
</edit>

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Adul
well i dont know about it falling apart, but I do know that you need to change the trany fluid every 15 -20k miles. youa re way past ovedue there bud.

It depends on the car. My Jeep and Caravan needs changed every 45000 miles. (Oh crap...my Jeep is due )

 

[Vette73]

If your honda is like all the ones I have worked on it will not have a filter. It is just a drain and refill. There should be a drain plug like your oil, open that and drain your tran's. the reinstall plug and fill trans up to proper level, don't overfill it. You will only get about half of the fluid in the trans out. Drive it for a week, if the trans shifts better, or has no negative affects, then on your next oil change do the same thing to the trans again and then after that do it every 15-30K, what ever Honda says, read owners manual or call the dealership.

Hope this helps,

Marlin

 

[Eli]

If you change it now there is a good possability you will wreck your tranny.

When the fluid is not changed, it looses it abailty to help in aiding friction between the steels and friction plates. When you change it with it being that old, it will stress the clutches too fast and too far, and strip the friction material off real fast, and you end up with a trans that goes no where.

If you are worried about it, have the tranny rebuilt. You will probably have to do it anyway if you change the fluid.

I'm not quite following you here, what you said didn't make any sense. So, his AT fluid is old. It's lost some of its abilities as an ATF. Wouldn't it wear out faster with the old ATF? Why would putting new ATF in it - refreshing its friction properties, etc... harm the transmission?

Change it. It's not going to hurt anything.

 

[tcsenter]

I remember hearing somewhere that if you change the fluid after it has gone a really long time without being changed, the transmission could fall apart. Is this true? Or should I go ahead and change it?

It is absolutely true. I just had a conversation about this when I picked up my Bonneville after having a complete transmission overhaul (to the tune of $1400) last week. The mechanic/shop owner has worked on transmissions for 20 years and holds virtually every factory (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and heavy truck) certification.

When you get a transmission (more so for automatic than manual) with 150,000 miles put on the SAME fluid, you are virtually assured to have excessive wear, build-up and deposits in your transmission, which the detergent additives blended with new transmission fluid will loosen and break down, substantially increasing the risk of transmission failure (usually seal failure).

Its not a "sure thing". In your case, it may result in nothing adverse, and you might drive another 50,000 miles before something goes wrong. You cannot say "at xx miles, this will occur, so your transmission WILL fail if you change the fluid and filter". But, the principle is sound, and the risk of failure is definitely increased.

The mechanic's rule for high mile cars of unknown service history is, if the trasmission fluid is brown and dirty, leave it alone. If the transmission fluid is still reasonably clean and pink, then its ok to change the fluid and filter.

The transmission is the most overlooked aspect of vehicle maintenance. Many people think that transmissions are supposed to last the life of the vehicle, which is true. Its the transmission FLUID and FILTER that need to be periodically changed, else you run the risk of having a transmission failure long before its time. For some odd reason, nobody would think about putting 50,000 miles on an engine before changing the oil, but people will put 100,000 miles on a transmission without servicing it.

 

[Eli]

I wouldn't worry about it. While it's possible, I would think that driving with the old ATF would be much more detrimental to the rest of it's life than changing it. If you're really concerned, do as he says and look at the fluid. If it's black, perhaps get a second opinion. If it's still red, go for it.

And yeah, it's funny actually. Nobody pays any attention to their transmission..

If I ever get a car with an auto, I'm going to use AMSOil synthetic ATF...

 

[tcsenter]

I'm not quite following you here, what you said didn't make any sense. So, his AT fluid is old. It's lost some of its abilities as an ATF. Wouldn't it wear out faster with the old ATF? Why would putting new ATF in it - refreshing its friction properties, etc... harm the transmission?

The principle goes something like this:

The working pressures and temperatures are often higher inside a transmission than they are in an engine. Transmission fluid needs to be a hydraulic fluid, a coolant, a lubricant, and a cleaning agent, simultaneously. While transmission fluid lasts much longer than engine oil, it doesn't last forever. Between 40K and 50K miles, most transmission fluids should be changed because their protective additive packages are effectively spent. The first of these protective additives to be depleted are typically cleaning, anti-foaming, and pH buffering agents.

When that happens, contaminants that are reactive with your transmission seals build-up and begin to break them down. Deposits then fill-in these 'holes', becoming part of the seal. In a high mile transmission that has never had service, it is common to find seals that are almost entirely replaced by deposits and build-up.

Guess what happens when you recharge your transmission fluid's detergent agents? They begin to work on all of these deposits, which have on some level replaced your seals or have helped form seals around excessively worn valves and sleeves.

I should revise my earlier statement suggesting that a transmission could "fall apart" as the thread creator stated. The transmission will not "fall apart", but it could fail in a number of ways.

 

[Tominator]

All bullcrap imho! There are zero ingredients that will actually clean or break something loose! That is an old wives tail and I don't care how many patches are on his sleeve...

Take the car to a reputible transmission shop and have the bands adjusted as well as the fluid changed.

 

[StageLeft]

I have a 93 sentra 5-speed with 148k miles. I bought it about 6k miles ago. I replaced the tranny fluid 1500 miles ago. I brought it in and they said there was a slight transmission leak so we got it drained. I can't remember if it was my idea but I think it was. So far so good

 

[tcsenter]

There are zero ingredients that will actually clean or break something loose! That is an old wives tail and I don't care how many patches are on his sleeve...

Are you going on record to state [your ignorance] that transmission fluid does NOT contain any detergents, anti-foaming agents, pH buffers, emuslifiers, or other cleaning additives that are designed to neutralize, break-down, emulsify, or otherwise prevent build-up and deposits? Please confirm that you are actually attempting to assert this.

 

[Tominator]

I'll go on record saying that the 'detergent' as the term is used in lubricants in engines or transmissions actually 'cleans' nothing! The ingredients also do not cause build ups such as sludge and carbon to loosen and possible clog orifices.

The ingredients only keep contiminates in suspension so the filter can do it's job. They DO NOT 'clean' an already dirty motor or tranny! New fluid can only do good and will absolutely not harm a thing....I'm not ignorant, I'm right....

 

[tcsenter]

I'll go on record saying that the 'detergent' as the term is used in lubricants in engines or transmissions actually 'cleans' nothing!

Really! This is will be a breaking revelation to the entire automotive industry! lol!

The ingredients also do not cause build ups such as sludge and carbon to loosen and possible clog orifices.

Nobody claimed that loosened deposits or sludge will clog orifices. Sludge and deposits don't loosen up then clog things, they will clog things because they're not constantly remediated, held in suspension, and filtered out. You're statement is back-asswards, in a manner of speaking.

 

[Tominator]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

I'll go on record saying that the 'detergent' as the term is used in lubricants in engines or transmissions actually 'cleans' nothing!

Really! This is will be a breaking revelation to the entire automotive industry! lol!

The ingredients also do not cause build ups such as sludge and carbon to loosen and possible clog orifices.

Nobody claimed that loosened deposits or sludge will clog orifices. Sludge and deposits don't loosen up then clog things, they will clog things because they're not constantly remediated, held in suspension, and filtered out. You're statement is back-asswards, in a manner of speaking.

Actually it is you my friend that should go back and revisit....what I said has not changed since the invention of 'Detergent Oil.' It cleans nothing, just helps an already clean motor or transmission to remain so.

The mechanic's rule for high mile cars of unknown service history is, if the trasmission fluid is brown and dirty, leave it alone. If the transmission fluid is still reasonably clean and pink, then its ok to change the fluid and filter.

Talk about revelations! I've been invlved in building and selling engines and car parts since everyone used non-detergent oil and that is the first time I have ever heard anyone make such a statement.

Btw, seal failure does not equal transmission failure. Seals go bad with age and if you keep a car very long they will get replaced as wear and tear take it's toll.

 

[tcsenter]

Actually it is you my friend that should go back and revisit....what I said has not changed since the invention of 'Detergent Oil.' It cleans nothing, just helps an already clean motor or transmission to remain so.

I would let this statement slide if we were discussing motor oil because, though not technically correct, it roughly appproximates the truth. In case you haven't heard, engine oil and transmission fluid are two entirely different beasts.

Doubt me? Pour a little transmission fluid and engine oil next to it on your car's finish and let it sit there for a few days.

Now, as you're trying to scrub away that spot left where the transmission fluid was allowed to persist on your finish, a futile attempt I might add, ask yourself why transmission fluid is so reactive while engine oil is not. When you cannot think of an answer, let me know.

 

[Tominator]

Now you are splitting hairs. Transmission fluid is basically a hydralic fluid and is not exposed to the high temps and shear effect that breaks down engine oil, but my statements regarding the term 'detergent' hold firm and fast regardless.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Marlin1975 is right, there isn't a replaceable filter on Honda auto transmissions, I ordered one once before I knew that & they sent me a screen that you just wash out with solvent, you can't get to it unless you tear down the tranny...

 

[tcsenter]

Now you are splitting hairs. transmission fluid is basically a hydralic fluid and is not exposed to the high temps and shear effect that breaks down engine oil

Working temperatures inside transmissions can EXCEED that found inside internal combustion engines. duh Not the temperature of exhaust valves or piston tops (which can glow red), but then we know that engine oil isn't exposed to these areas (at least they shouldn't be).

but my statements regarding the term 'detergent' hold firm and fast regardless.

For engine oil, not transmission fluid. Transmission fluid has a high detergent and solvent value, higher than any 'detergent' engine oil, that is KNOWN to actually REMOVE deposits and build-up. In fact, many mechanics recommend a quart of transmission fluid be added to the crankcase of a high mile engine as a sort of 'engine flush', precisely BECAUSE it is KNOWN to REMOVE deposits and build-up.

What I have found isn't 'conclusive' proof, what it does prove is that I have support.

"But even if you don't change your filter, change your transmission fluid regularly. It is cheap, insurance against a premature breakdown or major overhaul. Change the filter, at least occasionally, unless it is inaccessible. But if your car has high mileage and the fluid has never been changed, think twice about having it done or risk the "morning after syndrome." - Hummer Transmission Fluid Change by Bob Weber [2/13/2000. Bob Weber is an ASE-certified Master Automobile Technician, having recertified every five years since 1978. Bob writes a regular automotive repair column for the Chicago Tribune.

"It is recommended in your owner's manual that all automatic transmissions should have the filter and fluid changed at least every 30,000 miles if not sooner...However, there are two schools of thought here: 1) routine maintenance is good, or 2) if it ain't broke, don't fix it. In talking with several professionals, including my own personal mechanic, the thought of keeping the fluid as-is for extented periods of time is not an uncommon sentiment. The theory is that the fluid will contain deposits that can build up in the passages throughout the valve body. These deposits are akin to carbon buildup in the upper intake plenum. The transmission "gets used" to having these buildups, which are normal. If you change the old fluid, the new fluid will flush away those deposits, and the likelihood of changing the transmission shifting and wear patterns is high." - Automatic Transmission Help

"Pennzoil is recommending that if an automatic transmission hasn't had an oil change within the first 75,000 miles, NOT to change the oil at all. Allegedly, the transmission is just happy as pig in mud with the old fluid, and by changing the oil will create more trouble than if left alone. Goes against conventional wisdom, but I guess its the sleeping dog syndrome." - Automatic Transmission Fluid Change Warning by Harry Yarnell; Virtual Vairs.

 

[JC]

Yes, ATF has lots of detergent....you can use it in your parts washer (I have, when the solvent was low). You can't do that with motor oil.

JC

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Night201
YES. Get it changed immediately. Ask them to show it to you. It's like checking your oil. It should be a reddish color. Yours will probably be a thick black -> Not good.

A few months after I bought the car that I have now, the clutch went out. I had no idea why. I got it replaced, and it started making noise again immediately. Cut to the chase, there was one ounce of an unknown black solid in the fluid chamber. It was ATF!

My uncle used to work on transmissions, and he thought it was burnt gear oil. I suspect the car went 170K miles on the same fluid. I put in new fluid, drove 500 miles, and replaced. Works great now.

 

[Cattlegod]

don't change it man.

my old car had 100k on it, i changed the tranny fluid and the trans went out 2 weeks later.