should I abandon the AMD ship? (Updated)

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Revolution 11

Senior member
Jun 2, 2011
952
79
91
It would be nice to use even 4 cores in my games which all seem to max out at 2 cores, which just seems pitiful.

How many cores are games like the Witcher 3 and Evolve targeting?
 

Ramses

Platinum Member
Apr 26, 2000
2,871
4
81
My TK-57 in my six year old $400 laptop is a little slow.
Plenty useable with an ssd, but a little slow.
It's faster than the 3.2ghz P4HT in the shop though. :)
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,682
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The reason these threads go on so long is that humans get fooled into believing brand loyalty confers some benefit. Corporations trick us into being loyal to them because of our natural propensity to form bonds with our social groups. This trickery benefits only the corporation.

It's not terribly hard to to choose a winning CPU if you know the usage and know how to examine objective data.
 

Gikaseixas

Platinum Member
Jul 1, 2004
2,836
218
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It's sorta makes me smile, in like 99-00, about when I joined this forum I guess, I was switching to SMP, dual slot1 back then with supermicro and tyan mostly, and a few dual pentium pro boxes. I remember hearing a variation of the same arguments against two slower processors(cores) vs a single faster cpu. I guess it was an overclocked 600eb or something bang for buck wise then, or a celly of some sort. But despite what any benchmarks said, the dual system ran better, felt better, and was better, for longer. And nothing supported multithreading that wasn't high end software back then. I remember the first time I could play Quake 2 or 3 with winamp running in the background and no performance penalty and it was a revelation. Few years later we were told HyperThreading was coming, and we all laughed since we'd known two was better than one for a long time and Intel was going to try and help get everyone else, and software developers, onboard now and that was cool. As it happens HT kinda sucked and was a sorry imitation of proper SMP, but it was a start in the right direction. I had and still have a 3.2ghz HT chip, just to remind me what a slow high mhz CPU is mostly(it still plays netflix as my shop computer, and UT and some legacy games). I kinda got out of computers when the first real dual cores on single chip were happening and the rest is history I guess.

The moral of the fifteen year long tale is that I've learned if I have a choice between a cpu that can process four or six threads at once at say 100% of some arbitrary scale, and an eight+ thread chip that will do it at 80% of that arbitrary scale, I will pick the eight+ every time. And not unlike my first P6DBS with a surprisingly expensive pair of p2/300's in there stoic little black coffins, they just run better, longer. Two is almost always better than one.

That eight core vs six core will be more pleasant to use, longer, and handle concurrent daily workloads, longer, than the six or a four, even a faster one. You can believe it or not but personal decade+ experience has shown me nothing but.

This isn't to say it will game any faster now or later, but it's certainly not going to be worse, and there is a chance it'll be better. As it is now, half the cpu is laying around bored playing games, and the games are still very pleasant and playable. People speak ill of not utilizing all the cores but what more do you want from these games? The very lowest bottom of those four benchmark charts posted above are all perfectly playable. Whats more is, it isn't that the cores don't work, it's that software does not utilize them well. Go bitch at the developers if a game isn't using eightyseven cores effectively.
Most of the time the answer is the overhead is too high, the game doesn't really need them all, or it's just too difficult to make it work vs the payoff and it does not effect our bottom$ line much. I personally reward developers that make games that run well on my hardware with my money. If a game runs crappy on my hardware or is some buggy shit console port with annoying controls, I don't play it.

It's not a huge upgrade six to eight in this case, but it is an upgrade. I would and did make it. It might be different if it was a $300-$400 investment, it's at absolute worst $250 and likely quite a lot less though. Small price for little grief and some breathing room imo. Nothing wrong with going Intel either if you game a bunch or like the color of the box or just have the money, it's all fast these days. That's why these threads go on for so long, it's hard to pick winners when they are all excellent.

Excellent post :thumbsup:
 

Ramses

Platinum Member
Apr 26, 2000
2,871
4
81
How many cores are games like the Witcher 3

Almost six months till release, lot can happen price wise before then.
I read an quick interview with one of the developers who said something like "don't focus so much on the framerate and resolution, but on the game itself" which sounds like a copout for a bad console port in the making to me. :)
 

Ramses

Platinum Member
Apr 26, 2000
2,871
4
81
It's not terribly hard to to choose a winning CPU if you know the usage and know how to examine objective data.

Yeah, you can't see if it says AMD or Intel once it's installed,
Unless you put on a sticker that they all come with..
And they pretty much all win to one degree or another.

I've run em both for a lot of years. My next build is probably an old dual
xeon with as cheap a ebay parts as I can find.
If I can ever sort out the naming schemes.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,682
2,280
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Yeah, you can't see if it says AMD or Intel once it's installed,
Unless you put on a sticker that they all come with..
And they pretty much all win to one degree or another.

I've run em both for a lot of years. My next build is probably an old dual
xeon with as cheap a ebay parts as I can find.
If I can ever sort out the naming schemes.
Hexcore Westmeres are good values. Scan through the more recent pages of this thread for info:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2335636
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
I've been splitting time between gaming and watching football all day. The room my computer is in is comfortable, the power grid hasn't collapsed, and all the games I played were quite smooth. The only possible explanation, AMD must have snuck an i7 under the heat spreader. :p Got The Witcher 2 downloading in Steam now.
 
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escrow4

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2013
3,339
122
106
I somehow can't grasp games using 6 cores and the debate shifts to quad vs hexa like quad vs dual in ye olden days. All the next gen games so far have been sloppy and that is about it. To actually render a game with 6 threads properly (60FPS) that falls over on 4 cores (40FPS or less; difference purely down to cores), eh, it will be a long long while yet.

Thing is, the 8350 now is primitive and AM3+ is the dark ages. In 2 or 3 years it won't be fit for much gaming wise. A 4770/4790 may have some life yet but AMD? No.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
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Edit: I've also taken to buying cheap refurb HP/Compaq DC5800 PCs with Windows 7 on sale. The most recent ones are a 2.0Ghz C2D, 2GB DDR2, 80/160GB HDD, DVD-ROM, and Win7, for $90. Hard to beat that package.

Have you ever installed a game-able low profile video card to one of those? If so, how does it work out?

Nope, not going to waste the money.

I can see your point if the price were $90.

But I have to wonder if some refurb companies will take that same SFF desktop (with the expired Windows XP license), and instead of replacing with Windows 7 use Steam OS (when it becomes available.)

83-280-791-01.jpg


Now those 65nm Core 2 duo era machines start from a cheaper price point....and maybe a low profile graphics card (of some type) becomes viable?

I know this is a low spec for a machine, but realize Steam OS is mainly for Streaming games. However, some people may try to play games natively via OPEN GL depending on what they have for a Windows machine in their household.

P.S. I've used the E2180 CPU (found in these machines) with 2GB RAM myself up until early 2013. Its weak, but i had no problem playing steam games like Team Fortress 2 with a discrete card.
 
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Ramses

Platinum Member
Apr 26, 2000
2,871
4
81
I somehow can't grasp games using 6 cores and the debate shifts to quad vs hexa like quad vs dual in ye olden days. All the next gen games so far have been sloppy and that is about it. To actually render a game with 6 threads properly (60FPS) that falls over on 4 cores (40FPS or less; difference purely down to cores), eh, it will be a long long while yet.

Thing is, the 8350 now is primitive and AM3+ is the dark ages. In 2 or 3 years it won't be fit for much gaming wise. A 4770/4790 may have some life yet but AMD? No.
Even if that's true, who the hell among this crowd of upper ten percent enthusiasts is going to be all broken up about upgrading in a year or two? Your argument isn't wrong it's just.. Not the only way to look at it. That's why they call it a hobby. :)
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,682
2,280
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^ Not a bad deal but that server board won't overclock. Nice that it has an x16 slot though. Hell it might be worth it just for the CPUs and RAM.
 

Burpo

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2013
4,223
473
126
Sell the cpu's and replace with a couple X5650 or X5660's. Who needs to overclock when you have 24 workers? :)
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,571
10,207
126
Thing is, the 8350 now is primitive and AM3+ is the dark ages. In 2 or 3 years it won't be fit for much gaming wise. A 4770/4790 may have some life yet but AMD? No.
It would have been nice if AMD had released an 8-core FX die based on SteamRollerB, like Kaveri. It has superior IPC to PileDriver. Unfortunately, it's not on SOI, so it doesn't clock as high. Which sucks.
 

Ramses

Platinum Member
Apr 26, 2000
2,871
4
81
They'll either release something cool for FX/I5/I7 level folks, or they will not and we'll all buy intel. I hope they do, but I really don't care either way as long as there is something relatively affordable with at least 25% more performance across the board in 12 months from now.
 

Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,822
2,423
136
I somehow can't grasp games using 6 cores and the debate shifts to quad vs hexa like quad vs dual in ye olden days. All the next gen games so far have been sloppy and that is about it. To actually render a game with 6 threads properly (60FPS) that falls over on 4 cores (40FPS or less; difference purely down to cores), eh, it will be a long long while yet.

Thing is, the 8350 now is primitive and AM3+ is the dark ages. In 2 or 3 years it won't be fit for much gaming wise. A 4770/4790 may have some life yet but AMD? No.

Yeah, no. Not buying it.
 

jihe

Senior member
Nov 6, 2009
747
97
91
Basically, because I live near a microcenter a upgrade to i5/7 Z97 would be my best option. I have decided to put my faith in my wife's hands. I will point out a i5 combo and an i7 combo. I would be cheap as normal and get the i5. However, the wife is unpredictable, I think I will point out a X99 combo and see if I get lucky. Thanks for all the feedback guys!
Worst. Idea. Ever.
 

Bearach

Senior member
Dec 11, 2010
312
0
0
I don't know whether you should upgrade by abandoning ship, however I can tell you about my experience from doing the same thing.

I had a stock clocked FX-8350 and I moved to an i7 4790K. It's faster but nowhere near to the extreme levels some here will say. In actual fact, I was disappointed because I naively began to believe some of the things people spout here (When so many people keep saying the same thing, you sometimes start to think there must be something to it). In some areas it's a very noticeable difference but in others it's marginal at best.

As some have said, the FX-8350 is without a doubt faster, and smoother in actual use than the FX-6350. Having used both, I can at least attest to that from my experience.

So all in all, it's a matter of economics. If you can, and you don't mind spending the money? Then do it, it is an upgrade, but try to have realistic expectations otherwise you might come off a little disappointed.
 
Sep 27, 2013
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0
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I don't know whether you should upgrade by abandoning ship, however I can tell you about my experience from doing the same thing.

I had a stock clocked FX-8350 and I moved to an i7 4790K. It's faster but nowhere near to the extreme levels some here will say. In actual fact, I was disappointed because I naively began to believe some of the things people spout here (When so many people keep saying the same thing, you sometimes start to think there must be something to it). In some areas it's a very noticeable difference but in others it's marginal at best.

As some have said, the FX-8350 is without a doubt faster, and smoother in actual use than the FX-6350. Having used both, I can at least attest to that from my experience.

So all in all, it's a matter of economics. If you can, and you don't mind spending the money? Then do it, it is an upgrade, but try to have realistic expectations otherwise you might come off a little disappointed.

Me and the wife are going to pick whatever out bon Thursday. However, the amazon 139$ deal on the FX 8350 has me second guessing my Intel options
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
I don't know whether you should upgrade by abandoning ship, however I can tell you about my experience from doing the same thing.

I had a stock clocked FX-8350 and I moved to an i7 4790K. It's faster but nowhere near to the extreme levels some here will say. In actual fact, I was disappointed because I naively began to believe some of the things people spout here (When so many people keep saying the same thing, you sometimes start to think there must be something to it). In some areas it's a very noticeable difference but in others it's marginal at best.

As some have said, the FX-8350 is without a doubt faster, and smoother in actual use than the FX-6350. Having used both, I can at least attest to that from my experience.

So all in all, it's a matter of economics. If you can, and you don't mind spending the money? Then do it, it is an upgrade, but try to have realistic expectations otherwise you might come off a little disappointed.

I dont think anyone in this thread said the 4790k would be an extreme upgrade from an 8350. As far as the comparison of 8350 vs overclocked 6300, the results posted by AtenRa showed the increase in framerate from 6300 to 8350 was equal to or less than the difference in clockspeed, but there was a bigger increase in minimums. So I doubt an 8350, unless it is overclocked very well will be faster than a 6300 at 4.6, but it could in fact be smoother.
 

Bearach

Senior member
Dec 11, 2010
312
0
0
I dont think anyone in this thread said the 4790k would be an extreme upgrade from an 8350. As far as the comparison of 8350 vs overclocked 6300, the results posted by AtenRa showed the increase in framerate from 6300 to 8350 was equal to or less than the difference in clockspeed, but there was a bigger increase in minimums. So I doubt an 8350, unless it is overclocked very well will be faster than a 6300 at 4.6, but it could in fact be smoother.

I don't remember saying it was in this thread? In regards to what you said about the 6350, I was only talking stock. My apologies for not making it clearer. (Which probably wasn't good information due to it being an overclocked 6300 in consideration)
 
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