Should Hoda Muthana be allowed to return to the United States? (With Poll!)

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Should hoda be allowed back?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 10.3%

  • No

    Votes: 26 89.7%
  • Total voters
    29
renz20003

renz20003

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2011
2,714
634
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Last edited:
woolfe9998

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
14,243
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Not sure on this one. As to the immigration law, there seems to be a dispute as to whether her father still had diplomatic credentials in the US at the time she was born here (if he was still a diplomat then she wasn't made a citizen by being born here). She claims her father wasn't officially a diplomat here when she was born. The judge says otherwise. I can't really form an opnion without knowing who is correct.

I would also point out something else here - that she can be charged with one or more crimes for joining ISIS. So allowing her back into the country could be a mixed blessing for her at best.
 
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WelshBloke

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,292
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After the ranting from Trump about countries taking ISIS members back I'm surprised at the ruling from the judge there!
 
renz20003

renz20003

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2011
2,714
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woolfe9998 said:
Not sure on this one. As to the immigration law, there seems to be a dispute as to whether her father still had diplomatic credentials in the US at the time she was born here (if he was still a diplomat then she wasn't made a citizen by being born here). She claims her father wasn't officially a diplomat here when she was born. The judge says otherwise. I can't really form an opnion without knowing who is correct.

I would also point out something else here - that she can be charged with one or more crimes for joining ISIS. So allowing her back into the country could be a mixed blessing for her at best.
Click to expand...

I feel if she were/is a citizen it could be considered treason based on all the facts.
 
V

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
Stripping citizenship is not a precedent I want to see, but I get the impulse to.

If she were unequivocally a citizen I'd say arrest her at the border and charge her with whatever crimes we believe she committed. Let a jury decide based on the evidence.

In this case with birthright citizenship murky... I'm perfectly fine telling her to fuck off.

Viper GTS
 
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woolfe9998

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
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renz20003 said:
I feel if she were/is a citizen it could be considered treason based on all the facts.
Click to expand...

So far they haven't been charging these people with treason, but they're handing out pretty big sentences for attempting to aid a known terrorist organization. This will not be something where she does only a year or two so I'm unclear as to why she even wants to come back here. If I was her, I wouldn't want to come back. She's asking for a "second chance." She should consider not going to jail to be just that.
 
renz20003

renz20003

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2011
2,714
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woolfe9998 said:
So far they haven't been charging these people with treason, but they're handing out pretty big sentences for attempting to aid a known terrorist organization. This will not be something where she does only a year or two so I'm unclear as to why she even wants to come back here. If I was her, I wouldn't want to come back. She's asking for a "second chance." She should consider not going to jail to be just that.
Click to expand...

She wants to come back so she can have a car and job so on and so forth. Guess the grass isn’t greener on ther other side.
 
woolfe9998

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
14,243
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renz20003 said:
She wants to come back so she can have a car and job so on and so forth. Guess the grass isn’t greener on ther other side.
Click to expand...

Yes, and my point being, she won't have a job unless it has to do with making license plates. Which is why I'm not sure why she wants back in. Maybe she thinks they'll take pity on her and give her a light sentence.
 
I

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,030
2,885
136
Regardless of circumstance, if she is not a citizen then she needs to go through an immigration or refugee process to come to the US, which probably means never. The humanitarian situation is more complicated, but I don't agree with carving out a special process for any single individual. Is there any reason to suspect malfeasance by the judge in deciding she is not a citizen?
 
S

simpletron

Member
Oct 31, 2008
189
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interchange said:
Regardless of circumstance, if she is not a citizen then she needs to go through an immigration or refugee process to come to the US, which probably means never. The humanitarian situation is more complicated, but I don't agree with carving out a special process for any single individual. Is there any reason to suspect malfeasance by the judge in deciding she is not a citizen?
Click to expand...

No malfeasance by the Judge.
The key facts are following:
1. Dad fired in September 1994.
2. Daughter born on October 28, 1994 in New Jersey.
3. UN is notified that Dad is no longer a Diplomat on February 6, 1995.

The Vienna Convection on Diplomatic Relations, Article 43 states "The function of a diplomatic agent comes to an end, inter alia: (a) On notification by the sending State to the receiving State that the function of the diplomatic agent has come to an end; " This plus the US's long standing policy that children of diplomats born in US are not US citizens lead to this ruling.
 
Zorba

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,256
136
If she were a US Citizen, I'd say yes and throw the book at her. But I have no reason to question the Judge's decision here, so fuck her.
 
GodisanAtheist

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
8,408
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If she is legitimately as US citizen or at least spent the bulk of her life and formative years here, of course she should be allowed to return + be arrested and charged under our laws.

I said it with Bo Bergdahl and I'll say it for anyone else that is an American: what the fuck is the point of citizenship or belonging to anything if you are not responsible to it and it is not responsible to you.

She broke her half of the covenant with us and would have been a danger (in her small way) to the world. It is our responsibility to repatriate and deal with this fellow citizen regardless the circumstances.

If she's just trying to legalese her way into a favorable situation, on the other hand, then let her rot.
 
Sunburn74

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,076
2,635
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simpletron said:
No malfeasance by the Judge.
The key facts are following:
1. Dad fired in September 1994.
2. Daughter born on October 28, 1994 in New Jersey.
3. UN is notified that Dad is no longer a Diplomat on February 6, 1995.

The Vienna Convection on Diplomatic Relations, Article 43 states "The function of a diplomatic agent comes to an end, inter alia: (a) On notification by the sending State to the receiving State that the function of the diplomatic agent has come to an end; " This plus the US's long standing policy that children of diplomats born in US are not US citizens lead to this ruling.
Click to expand...
When did they send to the state the father was a diplomat notice that he was fired? The UN notification doesn't matter.

Ultimately, my general feeling is that the ruling is technically correct. Her father was here at the time on a diplomat visa and so her birth here doesn't allow citizenship.

I do think however as a country we should take her back, assuming she is vetted and agrees to monitoring. It should be done from the point of view that we are trying to re-establish moral and ethical credibility in the world and taking back such people is probably a good step in doing that. It also would be reasonable for her to get some jail time for the ISIS stuff.
 
Bitek

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,239
136
I'm fine with it.

We should apply the same thing to the Trump's too.

Ship Melania back to whatever shithole slavic country she came from, and send her anchor baby with her.

Jr, Ivanka and Eric are anchor babies too.
Off with them. If Czech republic won't take them back (and why would they) they can apply to Moscow for asylum.
Let's be sure they Remain in Moscow while the process is worked out. Too much of a drain on the country to allow them to be inside the borders during the court proceedings.

We could also deport Cheetolini back to Prussia, but he'll be spending so much time in Federal PMITA prison along with Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, Michael Flynn, Michael Cohen, George Papadopoulos, Roger Stone, E̶p̶s̶t̶e̶i̶n̶ and all his other lackeys it won't matter.
 
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