Should government make a profit off student loan debt?

[Zorkorist]

Cool can you and stewox let us know in advance where and when you plan start your little crusade?

I guess you are getting paid plenty in Government pension?

-John

 

[LegendKiller]

Ya think? You little tragic bump?

You think that because Government spends far beyond its income, that's a good thing?

;p;

-John

Little tragic bump? What the hell is that?

Did I say it was a good thing? You said it was "hyper inflation", that is stupid. I didn't say it was a good thing.

Do you have problems, reading, comprehending, or are you just fucking stupid?

 

[Zorkorist]

We are in a thread about the outrageous costs of education in America today.

You think that because Government spends well beyond it's means, that's a good thing?

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Can I ask you to justify why my new girl owes $50,000 dollars the day she is born?

What are you (the government) going to do for her to justify her $50,0000 in debt?

Then, you are going to tack on another $50,000 when she is in college?

All when you should have no control at all.

All when you are broke.

all when only your guns force me to do as you say.

All when you try and legislate to take my guns away.

-John

 

[OutHouse]

I think military and para-military (police) get to retire at 20 years. So they are 40 years old, and "retired" with a Government pension.

Ridiculous to me, and I have seen oil pensions. Just as ludicrous.

-John

you are sad sad sad.

military retirement is 50% of your base pay. you arent exactly living high on the hog. do you know why 20 years is the normal retirement year?

 

[LegendKiller]

We are in a thread about the outrageous costs of education in America today.

You think that because Government spends well beyond it's means, that's a good thing?

-John

Yes, we are in a discussion about how much the government spends. Then you duhverted it to a discussion about "hyperinflation" which is utterly moronic.

I already said my viewpoint, which is far more educated than yours, that the original premise, that the government makes a profit, is erroneous. It does not make a profit on student loans. Not in any traditional sense. Perhaps in the dipshit bureauspeak it does, but anybody who knows anything in depth about student loans knows the whole thing is bullshit.

The program is an entitlement program, as such, it loses money. The study that says it makes money doesn't take into account a key fact, that it is gauging the costs at a risk-free government debt rate, but that is a false rate. Furthermore, it assumes that the actual interest received is current, but 40%+ of students aren't even paying their debt, that doesn't even include those in school. Finally, it underestimates the default (and recovery) rate massively. The initial default rate is far too low, the 2nd default rate is too low, and the IBR isn't taken into account. All of these combined results in a far higher collection rate than will actually be realized.

 

[Zorkorist]

Yeah, that is a bunch of mumbo jumbo shit, that anyone with half a brain can combat.

You are part of the problem, so don't fancy yourself a part of the solution to the problem.

-John

 

[LegendKiller]

Yeah, that is a bunch of mumbo jumbo shit, that anyone with half a brain can combat.

You are part of the problem, so don't fancy yourself a part of the solution to the problem.

-John

You don't even know what the problem is, which is why you duhvert to "hyperinflation".

It's pretty easy to solve the problem. I would rather not be part of it, I find the whole thing pretty revolting, and, as the father of 3 kids, I realize that it needs to be fixed.

 

[Zorkorist]

It's not that you have any occasion to solving problems, it's that you and your children are being abused.

Someone other than you, is determining how you, and your children, should live their life.

This isn't even a discussion of freedom, but rather of how we are controlled.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

you are sad sad sad.

military retirement is 50% of your base pay. you arent exactly living high on the hog. do you know why 20 years is the normal retirement year?

You apparently feel that getting 50% of your pay, forever on, after 40 years old is a bad thing.

Bad, bad, bad.

So tell me, how these heroes earn, this bad thing.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Cops after 20 years...
Firemen after 20 years...
arm, navy, marine, after 20 years...
all end up on the Government Dole forever.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Never mind the Government is broke.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Never Mind that each of their babies, is $50,000 in debt.

-John

 

[OverVolt]

Its like loaning your redneck cousin $10k for college and he will owe you $15k with interest paying over 10 years so you booked a massive $5k profit but he never pays you back.

Pretty sure you lose the money.

 

[cubby1223]

If you want people to successfully contribute to society the last thing you should be doing is making money off them.

Nice reasoning!

On an unrelated topic, what is your stance on the income taxes? Should the government be taking in more money the more productive & successful a person is?


The truth to life (I'm hoping the 74 in your username is not your birth year, because DAMN you should have figured this out by now) is most people become successful and rich by allowing other people to make money off of them, to which you in turn make money off of those who are making money off of you.

It is a good thing.

In the ideal scenario, the money the government "makes" off of you is turned around and spent in ways that help you make more money.

 

[Naeeldar]

A lot fewer people in America went to college. If you want to return to that and have America's workforce become much less competitive I guess that's your business. If you're going to try to argue that the presence of student loans is responsible for the increase in tuition prices, I would suggest you consult the research on the topic first.

And again, if you think the government shouldn't be involved in student loans that just means you think there shouldn't be student loans.

This is hilarious. There are so many studies out there right now talking about how college is reaching a tipping point of not being worth the cost.

Quite frankly we have to many people in college now. Germany has a competitive wqork force and they are big on trades right now. All we have done with the college bubble is make it more expensive to start life and sadly the job market now requires degrees costing $75,000 dollars or more for a job that 10-15 years ago you could of walked in without a high school degree. You learn on the job anyway this idea of a degree = business ready these days is just sad and creating a poor entry level job market.

 

[Greenman]

Is there actually a real world profit being made? My guess is it's a paper profit that will never be realized. At some point in the not to distant future, won't most of those loans be forgiven and the balance added to the national debt?

 

[fskimospy]

This is hilarious. There are so many studies out there right now talking about how college is reaching a tipping point of not being worth the cost.

Quite frankly we have to many people in college now. Germany has a competitive wqork force and they are big on trades right now. All we have done with the college bubble is make it more expensive to start life and sadly the job market now requires degrees costing $75,000 dollars or more for a job that 10-15 years ago you could of walked in without a high school degree. You learn on the job anyway this idea of a degree = business ready these days is just sad and creating a poor entry level job market.

Actually, recent studies show the exact opposite. Where are you getting your information?

 

[Exterous]

Its like loaning your redneck cousin $10k for college and he will owe you $15k with interest paying over 10 years so you booked a massive $5k profit but he never pays you back.

Not quite. Its like when you loan him $10k for college but he can't pay you back the $15k he owes you so you talk to his employer and take his wages or tax refunds

 

[Exterous]

Actually, recent studies show the exact opposite. Where are you getting your information?

This is hilarious. There are so many studies out there right now talking about how college is reaching a tipping point of not being worth the cost.

You are both right - and both wrong. It depends on the metrics being used and measured. Taken only as two massive groups of 'college grads vs non-college grads' college still makes financial sense. (See most recently the NYT article). The average grad will make much more than the average non-grad.

However - if you dig into it more there are some fields facing tough times as they are at\have already reached the tipping point. Degrees in STEM, teaching, social work are being pushed out by high education costs vs low pay which many (Like Georgetown's Center on Education and the Workforce) think will cause economic problems down the road once existing degreed employees in those areas retire or growth exceeds available supply.

The biggest problem in all of this is that the supply and demand pendulum swings are being encouraged by the high costs. It would be difficult to leave higher education up to only supply and demand given the long lead times (4-8 years) in many areas. If we see a notable increase in demand due to a drying up of degrees its going to take a long time to recover that gap with potential consequences for every citizen yet higher costs push those to degrees with low unemployment but high pay. This is not a healthy cycle and has already caused problems (ex: MBA 2007 vs 2008, Law degrees currently) IMO the role of the government should be to smooth these swings and thats it

 

[Cozarkian]

How many people do you know that work in finance? I'd love for you to find a single one that would lend someone with no income and no assets tens of thousands of dollars in an unsecured loan. I didn't even mention the fact that there's absolutely no guarantee the person will complete the degree.

That's just not how the real world works. Before we can even talk about how to make education more affordable we all need to be looking at finance as it works in reality.

Wells Fargo, Citizens Bank, Commerce Bank - that's three.

Granted, there is a catch. You need a cosignor with income. You do get a better rate than unsecured personal loans, however. There also tend to be provisions for release of the cosignor after a specified number of on time payments.

The point is student loans would still exist with parental cosignors, and since you need your parent to sign the Fafsa for federal loans, that isn't a big obstacle.

 

[justoh]

Wells Fargo, Citizens Bank, Commerce Bank - that's three.

Granted, there is a catch. You need a cosignor with income. You do get a better rate than unsecured personal loans, however. There also tend to be provisions for release of the cosignor after a specified number of on time payments.

The point is student loans would still exist with parental cosignors, and since you need your parent to sign the Fafsa for federal loans, that isn't a big obstacle.

Those aren't really counterexamples to his point, and the rate isn't necessarily lower and depends on the credit worthiness of your parents. You also don't need parental involvement in fafsa if you're over 25 or something (could be wrong on exact age), and isn't the average college student over thirty?

 

[Cozarkian]

Those aren't really counterexamples to his point, and the rate isn't necessarily lower and depends on the credit worthiness of your parents. You also don't need parental involvement in fafsa if you're over 25 or something (could be wrong on exact age), and isn't the average college student over thirty?

Read his prior post. He expressly stated that absent federal student loans no student loans would exist. My post, which points out private student loans already exist because the market already found a way to solve the problem of an unsecured loan based on the possibility of future income, is 100% on target with his point.

Oh and a private student loan based on the creditworthiness of a parent will almost certainly have a lower rate than a personal loan based on the same creditworthiness of the same parent.

 

[CitizenKain]

Never Mind that each of their babies, is $50,000 in debt.

-John

Explain why government debt is bad.

 

[realibrad]

Explain why government debt is bad.

Its not inherently bad, but it is typically bad.

Governments tend to pay with debt by printing more money. This causes inflation which lowers the purchasing power of everyone. That reduced purchasing power means poor people are hurt more than anyone else.

There are many other options, but that is the big one.